bonnie Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjIyMGEwZGM5YTdmOGU0MDEzNGU3ZDk5NjRlNzdmNzA= May 13, 2009 6:37 PM Obama’s ‘Public’ Health Plan Will Bankrupt the Nation But where’s the GOP to just say no? By Larry Kudlow Does anybody really believe that adding 50 million people to the public health-care rolls will not cost the government more money? About $1.5 trillion to $2 trillion more? At least. So let’s be serious when evaluating President Obama’s goal of universal health care, and the idea that it’s a cost-cutter. Can’t happen. Won’t happen. Costs are going to explode. Think of it: Can anyone name a federal program that ever cut costs for anything? Let’s not forget that the existing Medicare system is roughly $80 trillion in the hole. And does anybody believe Obama’s new “public” health-insurance plan isn’t really a bridge to single-payer government-run health care? And does anyone think this plan won’t produce a government gatekeeper that will allocate health services and control prices and therefore crowd-out the private-insurance doctor/hospital system? Federal boards are going to decide what’s good for you and me. And what’s not good for you and me. These boards will drive a wedge between doctors and patients. The president, in his New York Times Magazine interview with David Leonhardt, said his elderly mother should not (in theory) have had a hip-replacement operation. Yes, Obama would have fought for that operation for his mother’s sake. But a federal board of so-called experts would have told the rest of us, “No way.” And then there’s the charade of all those private health providers visiting the White House and promising $2 trillion in savings. Utter nonsense. And even if you put aside the demerits of a government-run health system, Obama’s health-care “funding” plans are completely falling apart. Not only will Obama’s health program cost at least twice as much as his $650 billion estimate, but his original plan to fund the program by auctioning off carbon-emissions warrants (through the misbegotten cap-and-trade system) has fallen through. In an attempt to buy off hundreds of energy, industrial, and other companies, the White House is now going to give away those carbon-cap-emissions trading warrants. So all those revenues are out the window. Fictitious. Anyway, the cap-and-tax system won’t pass Congress. The science is wrong. The economics are root-canal austerity — Malthusian limits to growth. And there are too many oil and coal senators who will vote against it. All of this is why the national-health-care debate is so outrageous. At some point we have to get serious about solving Medicare by limiting middle-class benefits and funding the program properly. There is no other way out. We can grow our way out of the Social Security deficit if we pursue pro-growth policies that maintain low tax and inflation rates. Prospects for that don’t look any too good right now, though it could be done. But government health care is nothing but a massive, unfunded, middle-class entitlement problem. (The poor are already in Medicaid.) Sen. Max Baucus (D., Mont.) proposes to solve health care by limiting employer tax breaks. He’s on to something, but he’s only got half the story. All the tax breaks for health care should go to individuals and small businesses. Let them shop around for the best health deal wherever they can find it with essentially pre-tax dollars. Additionally, insurance companies should be permitted to sell their products across state lines. And popular health savings accounts — which combine investor retirements with proper insurance by removing the smothering red tape — should be promoted. This approach of consumer choice and market competition will strengthen our private health-care system. So private enterprise can coexist with public health care and not be crowded out by the heavy-handed overreach of government. But the Obama Democrats are determined to force through a state-run system that will bankrupt the country. I’m not somebody who obsesses about the national debt or deficit. But I have to admit: Today’s spending-and-borrowing is blowing my mind. As a share of GDP, we’re looking at double-digit deficits as far as the eye can see. Over the next ten years, the CBO predicts federal debt in the hands of the public will absorb 80 percent of GDP. And that doesn’t include the real cost of state-run health care. Other than the temporary financial conditions surrounding WWII, we’ve never seen anything like this. The president’s grandiose government-takeover-and-control strategies are going to make things worse and worse — that is, unless members of that tiny band known as the Republican party can stand on their hind legs and just say no. The Republicans must come up with some pro-competition, private-enterprise alternatives for health, energy, education, taxes, and trade that will meet the yearning of voter-taxpayers for a return to private-enterprise American prosperity and opportunity. Free-market competition will lower costs in health care just as it has every place else. It also will grow the economy. The GOP must return to this basic conservative principle and reject Obama’s massive government assault. — Larry Kudlow, NRO’s Economics Editor, is host of CNBC’s The Kudlow Report and author of the daily web blog, Kudlow’s Money Politic$. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 The Nation is already bankrupt due to his bailouts. So he figures putting us further in the hole won't matter. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 The Nation is already bankrupt due to his bailouts. So he figures putting us further in the hole won't matter. I heard on the news tonight that there is a planned reduction of up to 50% in medicare payouts. If he thought in theory his mother should not have had a hip replacement the rest of medicare patients shouldn't matter all that much Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I figure if they want to convince me the government can make a better health plan work than the private sector, let them prove it with making Medicaid and Medicare the best run-for-profit enterprises the US has. Alas, as with FannieMae and FreddyMac, Medicaid and Medicare are nothing but hemmorhagic entities that profoundly prove the government CAN'T run anything right, and that the little people will always taken it in the shorts where the government is involved. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 A 50% reduction in payouts? Don't people understand that with natioanlized healthcare, our bankruptedness means they will be rationing care from the beginning. Anyone thinking they will get great coverage and great benefits is going to get seriously disappointed. Who's not a part of the plan? Of course - the plan WON'T include Congress. Just an aside, off topic but related: Congress does not apply any Civil Rights Laws to itself...does anyone really think they'll include themselves in this mess? What was it Marie Antionette said??? Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 We need to get rid of the insurance companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 We need to get rid of the insurance companies. Huh? No thanks. I don't want Obama controllin' MY health care. No way no how. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 We need to get rid of the insurance companies. Oh yeah,that will fix it. Who wouldn't trust the government to run your health care and do only the best for you. Just because they can't run anything efficiently is no reason not to turn the life and health of your family over to them. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Yeah, the insurance companies are much better. They drop you when you get sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 “They Dump the Sick to Satisfy Investors”: Insurance Exec Turned Whistleblower Wendell Potter Speaks Out Against Healthcare Industry As the debate over healthcare reform intensifies on Capitol Hill, we spend the hour with a former top insurance executive who’s now exposing the industry’s dirty secrets. Wendell Potter once served as the head of corporate communications at CIGNA, one of the nation’s largest health insurance companies. We speak to Potter about his own transformation from industry mouthpiece to whistleblower, the healthcare industry’s extensive PR and lobbying machine, the campaign to discredit Michael Moore’s film Sicko, and the insurance industry’s most pressing task: the fight against a public option, let alone a single-payer system. [includes rush transcript] For the entire interview: http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/16/former_insurance_exec_wendell_porter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Yeah. Obama is 'sick' so let's dump him. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 “They Dump the Sick to Satisfy Investors”: Insurance Exec Turned Whistleblower Wendell Potter Speaks Out Against Healthcare Industry As the debate over healthcare reform intensifies on Capitol Hill, we spend the hour with a former top insurance executive who’s now exposing the industry’s dirty secrets. Wendell Potter once served as the head of corporate communications at CIGNA, one of the nation’s largest health insurance companies. We speak to Potter about his own transformation from industry mouthpiece to whistleblower, the healthcare industry’s extensive PR and lobbying machine, the campaign to discredit Michael Moore’s film Sicko, and the insurance industry’s most pressing task: the fight against a public option, let alone a single-payer system. [includes rush transcript] For the entire interview: http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/16/former_insurance_exec_wendell_porter Maybe you should read the pending bill. The single payer plan is very possible,in fact will take place. When you cannot change your insurance and employee's can cut their cost by paying a penalty of 8% instead of paying premiums,what do you think will happen? Nor can a insurance company cancel you because of a claim. At least since mid 90's. My FIL was hospitalized from 7/9 to 11/9. The whole time in intensive care. No problem,he had no problems . My MIL had three surgeries not a whimper,my mother had surgery,cancer treatment,radiation,and maintained by insurance till she passed away. None of this would take place under a government plan. It cannot. There is no way to pay for it. Nor at their age would they have been considered of enough value to warrant the tremendous expense . Medicare patients will be hard hit with this. Not your filthy,obscenely rich. Medicare already pays the DR's considerably less than the private sector. Now it will be cut another 50%. There is no way that my husband would have had the number of tests he had and in a timely manner with this. We spent two days at the hospital. We became acquainted with others that came to the states to have tests and get treatment. One husband and wife were from Canada. They were here because they could not wait several weeks to months. Maybe a little selfish but I am glad we weren't under the government plan. US citizens have nowhere else to go. Just read that great piece of legislation. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Imagine this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/16/AR2009071602242.html?hpid%3Dtopnews CBO Chief Criticizes Democrats' Health Reform Measures Director Says Proposed Changes Would Increase Health-Care Spending Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, July 16, 2009; 3:55 PM Instead of saving the federal government from fiscal catastrophe, the health reform measures being drafted by congressional Democrats would increase rather than reduce public spending on health care, potentially worsening an already bleak budget outlook, the director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said this morning. Under questioning by members of the Senate Budget Committee, CBO director Douglas Elmendorf said bills crafted by House leaders and the Senate health committee do not propose "the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount." "On the contrary," Elmendorf said, "the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health-care costs." Though President Obama and Democratic leaders have said repeatedly that reining in the skyrocketing growth in spending on government health programs such as Medicaid and Medicare is their top priority, the reform measures put forth so far would not fulfill their pledge to "bend the cost curve" downward, Elmendorf said. Instead, he said, "The curve is being raised." The CBO is the official arbiter of the costs of legislation, and Elmendorf's stark testimony is certain to undermine support for the measures even as three House panels begin debate and aim to put a bill on the House floor before the August recess. Fiscal conservatives in the House, known as the Blue Dogs, were already threatening to block passage of legislation in the Energy and Commerce Committee, primarily due to concerns about the long-term costs of the House bill. ad_icon In her weekly news conference, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) expressed concern that the CBO is not giving lawmakers enough credit for measures that would bring down costs by increasing preventive care. If the health reform measure produces more savings than expected, she said, a proposed surtax of up to 5.4 percent on the wealthy could be lowered or the revenues could be devoted to bringing down the deficit. Meanwhile, Rep. Mike Ross (D-Ark.), a fiscal conservative who is leading a group of Democrats who will be pushing for more cost savings in the Energy and Commerce Committee, said Elmendorf's comments would galvanize that effort. There are "a lot" of Democrats who want to see more savings, Ross said. "There's no way they can pass this bill on the House floor. Not even close." Cost is also a major issue in the Senate, where some moderate Democrats have joined Republicans in calling on Obama to drop his demand that both chambers approve a bill before the August recess. While the Senate health committee approved its bill on Wednesday with no Republican votes, members of the Senate Finance Committee were still struggling to craft a bipartisan measure that does more to restrain costs. The chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), has taken a leading role in that effort. This morning, after receiving Elmendorf's testimony on the nation's long-term budget outlook, Conrad turned immediately to questions about the emerging health-care measures. "I'm going to really put you on the spot," Conrad told Elmendorf. "From what you have seen from the products of the committees that have reported, do you see a successful effort being mounted to bend the long-term cost curve?" Elmendorf responded: "No, Mr. Chairman." Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted July 17, 2009 Members Share Posted July 17, 2009 Not sure what the answers are, but Health insurance has gone up and up, year after year. So not sure what's going to happen one way or the other. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Not sure what the answers are, but Health insurance has gone up and up, year after year. So not sure what's going to happen one way or the other. pk Everything keeps going up. We paid 6500.00 for our first home and really had to give that purchase a lot of thought. I paid 9,000.00 for the model used car I have. A loaf of bread was 29 cents. Gas was under 30 cents a gallon. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Not sure what the answers are, but Health insurance has gone up and up, year after year. So not sure what's going to happen one way or the other. pk What would really make an impact and get this passed is for Ted Kennedy to reject the nice insurance he has and vow to go on the government insurance. No special favors because of name recognition. Or he could volunteer for the utopian Canadian health care. Same wait,same rationing. His age may be against him as he really has little value at this age. Maybe he could accept Obama's reasoning that at times a pain pill might make better sense than surgery or treatment Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I think Senator Kennedy is already on a government healthcare plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 I think Senator Kennedy is already on a government healthcare plan. I am quite sure you knew exactly what I meant,but in case...... reject the nice insurance he has and vow to go on the government insurance. No special favors because of name recognition. This means as in the insurance coverage they want to supply us with Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 On second thought maybe he would be willing to go to Cuba. Michael Moore says and we all know how the liberal's revere him Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Yeah, the insurance companies are much better. They drop you when you get sick. Instead of repeating the drival by liberal politicans look it up for yourself. If you have paid your premiums they cannot drop you because you are sick. It was mid 90's when the threat of this was stopped. I have had a couple of people complain they were dropped when they got sick. Little problem with paying their premiums is what got them dropped Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I think Senator Kennedy is already on a government healthcare plan. He is most certainly not on a government health plan, if you're referring to Medicare. Members of both the House and Senate are exempt from participation in all government programs. They do not participate in Social Security, nor in Medicare. The Civil Rights Acts do not apply to them. And so on down the line with every piece of legislation they pass. Hence, they have no care about how those programs a re run, except to manipulate the monies to buy votes and enslave the people. If the political class were as "voluntarily subject" to those programs as the rest of us are, Social Security and Medicare would be the best kept and run programs our government has - and would be running in surpluses. They would see to it. Kennedy gets the best doctors money can buy. Can you on Medicare? Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 Originally Posted By: carolaa I think Senator Kennedy is already on a government healthcare plan. He is most certainly not on a government health plan, if you're referring to Medicare. Members of both the House and Senate are exempt from participation in all government programs. They do not participate in Social Security, nor in Medicare. The Civil Rights Acts do not apply to them. And so on down the line with every piece of legislation they pass. Hence, they have no care about how those programs a re run, except to manipulate the monies to buy votes and enslave the people. If the political class were as "voluntarily subject" to those programs as the rest of us are, Social Security and Medicare would be the best kept and run programs our government has - and would be running in surpluses. They would see to it. Kennedy gets the best doctors money can buy. Can you on Medicare? The lower payments to DR's for medicare patients is a big worry personally. My husband has a DR that accepts medicare and will pull out all the stops to find the cause of a serious illness. With the many medicare and medicaid patients he accepts I am not sure if this goes thru he can continue to do so. My husband needed extensive tests before they could pinpoint the cause of strokes in a otherwise completely healthy man. While we were involved in this there we others from other countries waiting with us . The couple from canada had the same situation as my husband. They told us more than once how fortunate we were as in Canada they either could not get or the waiting list was so long it was virtually the same thing The older you are the less value you have to society .In any type of rationing it is obvious the younger family man with years ahead of him will come before those like my husband. But even so I think people will be delighted whatever they get as the obscene will be taxed to the hilt. Worth it all Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Originally Posted By: carolaa I think Senator Kennedy is already on a government healthcare plan. He is most certainly not on a government health plan, if you're referring to Medicare. LOL. No, I sure was not talking about Medicare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: Ted_Oplinger He is most certainly not on a government health plan' date=' if you're referring to Medicare. [/quote'] LOL. No, I sure was not talking about Medicare. even more...If there is such a wonderful government plan for Kennedy and all the legislator types, perhaps then they could extend the same plan to all the regular plebes, maybe? Can't happen - because it isn't government, and us regular plebes can't afford it! As I said before - they get the best medical aid MONEY can buy...we are in line to get the best rationing the burueacrats can give... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolaa Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Do the bureaucrats ration Medicare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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