Moderators lazarus Posted July 30, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2009 Just because there are people who believe some mighty peculiar things doesn't mean I'm obliged to pay them any attention. After all, there are folks who are convinced that the moon landing was a hoax, that Israel was behind the World Trade Center attacks and that the US government has been covering up the truth about the crash of a UFO in Roswell, New Mexico, for the past six decades. Not every ludicrous notion is worth the mental energy it would take to debunk it. Which brings me to the Birthers – rightwing conspiracy theorists who insist that Barack Obama was not born in the United States and is thus constitutionally unqualified to serve as president. I had assumed they'd gone away last year, after the Obama campaign posted the then-candidate's birth certificate on the internet. But conspiracy theories are a matter of faith, not fact. So I shouldn't have been surprised when the Birthers rose up anew recently, receiving a respectful hearing from the likes of CNN talkshow host Lou Dobbs and various Republican congressmen. But there's a difference between the loony ideas of yore and their latter-day incarnations. What had once been relegated to the fringes is now front and centre. The penniless cranks have given way to well-dressed strategists with expense accounts. The transformative agent: our corrupt and malign media culture. I am in debt to Charles Pierce, whose fine new book, Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free, explains how talk radio, cable news shows and, too often, less dubious sectors of the media have built the promulgation of foolishness into a growth business. (Disclosure: Pierce, a staff writer for the Boston Globe Magazine and a well-known freelancer, is a friend of mine.) Idiot America – not the book, but, rather, a state of mind – is based on what Pierce calls three "Great Premises": 1. "Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings or otherwise moves units." 2. "Anything can be true if someone says it loudly enough." 3. "Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it." http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/...hip-republicans Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 30, 2009 Administrators Share Posted July 30, 2009 Yes this does explain a lot of what we have seen over the past several election cycles. I would amend #2 above to "anything can be true if someone says it loud enough and often enough." Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Good Point dgrimm Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted July 30, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2009 dgrimm & Red do believe Obama is a natural born American citizen? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 He may have been 'born' but he ain't 'natural'. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 30, 2009 Administrators Share Posted July 30, 2009 As to the title of this topic - As far as we know they are citizens... But seriously, the referenced book is well worth the read, as well as the rest of the linked commentary of Dan Kennedy which includes the following that pretty much sums it up IMHO: Quote: The Birthers are ignorant hatemongers, spouting nonsense about Obama's roots as a proxy for their profound disgust that a black man was elected president. Citizens of Idiot America, indeed! Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Good Point dgrimm It would take one second to just hold it up for the media to take a picture of it. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 HEY ALL YES this thought can apply to any issue such as the sunday law dgrimm60 I think the idea of the Sunday law has been scraped by many Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted July 30, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted July 30, 2009 HEY LAZARUS IF there is any QUESTION OBAMA should be the one to prove it dgrimm60 I note that you both didn't answer the question Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 31, 2009 Administrators Share Posted July 31, 2009 HEY LAZARUS I really dont know what to think but like I said OBAMA needs to be the one to set this issue straight dgrimm60 He has, repeatedly. He obtained and supplied to the media the verification from the State of Hawaii. The Certificate of Live Birth is the only document the State provides and it is acceptable proof for obtaining a US Passport, establishing citizenship by birth. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted July 31, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted July 31, 2009 Less than half of Republicans believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America, a new public opinion poll finds. Only 42 percent of Republican respondents in a Research 2000 survey, conducted for the liberal website Daily Kos, said they thought Obama was a natural born citizen; 28 percent said they did not believe Obama was born in the United States; 30 percent said they were not sure. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted July 31, 2009 Administrators Share Posted July 31, 2009 The combination of the title of the book referenced in this topic and Jay Leo's shtick called Jaywalking makes me suspicious that a rather high percentage of those who do not believe Obama is a natural born citizen also believe that he was born in Hawaii which they think is not part of the United States... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 2, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted August 2, 2009 Bill Clinton had the Vince Foster "murder." George W. Bush had 9/11 Truth. And the new administration has brought with it a new culture of conspiracy: The Birthers. Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19450.html#ixzz0N41R2xIB Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Less than half of Republicans believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America, a new public opinion poll finds. Only 42 percent of Republican respondents in a Research 2000 survey, conducted for the liberal website Daily Kos, said they thought Obama was a natural born citizen; 28 percent said they did not believe Obama was born in the United States; 30 percent said they were not sure. I would really question the internals of that poll. If this was a Rasmussen, Zogby or some other reputable poll it would be more believable. The big conservative names are not running with this - Not Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck nor O'Reilly. In fact, some of them are coming straight out and saying it is bogus conspiracy theory stuff. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 after the Obama campaign posted the then-candidate's birth certificate on the internet. There is a problem with the online document, but this all could be cleared up easily if he was born here. Just release the birth certificate. His Grandmother says that she witnessed his birth in Kenya. Will changing name of document fix problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Holbrook Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I guess I'm one of those idiot birthers. Is this really smoking gun of Obama's Kenyan birth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Thanks Richard. This looks very credible. VERY interesting. I can see the waves building. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 3, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted August 3, 2009 I guess I'm one of those idiot birthers. Lol, you said it. You won't believe Hawaiian state authorities and attestation of Obama's birth but you are ready to believe something supposedly coming from a foreign country. It's weird how Republicans are willing to suspend their values to score political points. If the situation was reverse folks would be howling how unAmerican and treacherous this is. If Obama releases his birth certificate then how will we know it's not a forgery? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 3, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted August 3, 2009 This looks very credible. LoL, what makes the certificate of live birth less credible? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 3, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted August 3, 2009 It records Barack Obama Sr’s age as “26.” Obama Sr was born in 1936; his son was born in 1961. - Its publication date is February 17, 1964, but it purports be a document of the “Republic of Kenya.” Kenya did not become a Republic until December 12, 1964, a year after it won independence from Great Britain. - It’s signed by “registrar E.F. Lavender.” Earth Friendly Lavender is a kind of detergent, and government officials who use vanity initials on official documents are, to put it mildly, rare. teehe Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 4, 2009 Administrators Share Posted August 4, 2009 And in addition Mombasa was in the state of Zanzibar until it was ceded to the newly independent state of Kenya on December 12, 1963, so Obama would have been born in Zanzibar. In the 1960's the geographic divisions of Kenya were known as "Regions" not "Provinces". By 1970 the status of the regions changed to provinces. But a prescient point on the certificate is the number at the top "47,044" - At the age of 47 Obama became the 44th president of the US... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 It's weird how Republicans are willing to suspend their values to score political points. Please provide the name of one elected Republican to either federal or a statewide office that is part of the Birthers movement? I am not saying there isn't one - just that I haven't heard one. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 4, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted August 4, 2009 Rep. Bill Posey, a freshman Republican from Florida, introduced a bill yesterday mirroring proposed state legislation in Missouri and elsewhere that stems from fringe doubts about Obama's eligibility for office. The full bill text isn't yet available, and Posey's spokesman didn't immediately respond to a request for comment, but here's a summary: H.R. 1503. A bill to amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to require the principal campaign committee of a candidate for election to the office of President to include with the committee's statement of organization a copy of the candidate's birth certificate, together with such other documentation as may be necessary to establish that the candidate meets the qualifications for eligibility to the Office of President under the Constitution; to the Committee on House Administration. Though Posey's spokesman wasn't available, a Feb. 13 letter from Posey to a constituent on the subject appears on a website pushing the story in which Posey noted that courts and Hawaii officials had rejected the claims, but didn't state his own view on the subject. http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0309/Birther_bill_hits_Congress.html Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 4, 2009 Author Moderators Share Posted August 4, 2009 It would be simpler to ask who is not part of the birther movement.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1o1p_ly7Yw Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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