Angry people about Obama's Health Care Plan

[CyberGuy]

The bill "May" be passed but I doubt one republican will vote for it and I know many democrats will vote against it as well. Will that be enough to defeat it. We shall know in 30 to 60 days. I know this much. If it is defeated in round 1 there will be a lot of arm twisting and threats against democratic congressmen to change their votes to Yes or else no funding for their re election.

[phkrause]

Yes its pretty ugly that anybody has to threaten to get something passed. Both sides do the same thing. So nothing new there, that's even if that report is even true.

pk

[Ted Oplinger]

The bill "May" be passed but I doubt one republican will vote for it and I know many democrats will vote against it as well. Will that be enough to defeat it. We shall know in 30 to 60 days. I know this much. If it is defeated in round 1 there will be a lot of arm twisting and threats against democratic congressmen to change their votes to Yes or else no funding for their re election.

That is the clear red flag that the issue isn't compassion toward some disadvantaged group, but rather progression towards the goal to make the disadvantaged totally submitted to the power of the government. The use of force and threats is indicative that compassion is not the ulterior motive.

Throw out the xyz millions trumpeted as the reason. If it was for the true good, then the Democrat party would be able to bypass the Repubs, and absolutely no threats or arm-twisting would be necessary.

[Ted Oplinger]

Yes its pretty ugly that anybody has to threaten to get something passed. Both sides do the same thing. So nothing new there, that's even if that report is even true.

pk

Good observation, pk. Both parties have the same designs, the same goals for the furtherance of elitist power. Evidence the complete lack of bold opposition in the Repubs within the Senate - they would really want to renegotiate the government footprint into a smaller package - not as obviously intrusive but with most of the lesser known infrastructure to put in place what the Democrats want anyway.

If the Repubs were truly oppositional, they'd be countering by taking tort reform and interstate insurance action to the people. Instead, they cower before the media's power.

Instead, we seem to have the Democrat Party and its "loyal opposition".

I'm disgusted with both parties right now. Sort of like what I read in Daniel 10/11 - the kings of the North and South. They fight each other as if polar opposites, yet both are truly opposite sides of the same coin, and both are labeled evil by the Word of the True and Living God.

Ugh...

[Zeta]

For all the million seniors depending on and benefiting from the medicare program (government run), The US Congress (Republican and Democrats) participate in a government run health program that allows them to choose health options to meet their specific need (fact). We are paying to much money to the insurance and

pharma industry. I can care less who sits in the white house, I want affordable health care, I want elimination of the donut holes, I don't want pre-existing condition to be the reason someone is denied health insurance. what do you want?

We are our brothers keeper.

[bonnie]

For all the million seniors depending on and benefiting from the medicare program (government run), The US Congress (Republican and Democrats) participate in a government run health program that allows them to choose health options to meet their specific need (fact). We are paying to much money to the insurance and

pharma industry. I can care less who sits in the white house, I want affordable health care, I want elimination of the donut holes, I don't want pre-existing condition to be the reason someone is denied health insurance. what do you want?

We are our brothers keeper.

Senior citizens were forced to accept government run Medicare

Just because want something does not obligate to lower the cost to fit your demands

The donuthole was probably the best idea but the government again tried to correct there initial mistake.

If you are not on the truly expensive drugs many do not reach the limit where they have to pay the expense out of pocket

Rather a bad business practise to insure those with cancer already diagnosed.

[CyberGuy]

A powerful senator said that the Democrats will push for a reconciliation bill for health care. Senate rules forbids a fillibuster on reconciliation bills and only a simple majority vote is neccessary to pass the bill. This is a ploy to ram the health care bill down americans throats without the need for the republican support.

[bonnie]

Unless it has been changed you are wrong in the "government run" health care for politicians. Their health care is paid for but to the private sector,whatever plan they choose.

What is affordable health care to you? We had affordable health care till the government decided to give us a break with medicare.

Our prescriptions and all paid for after the deductible.

Now we have this great plan that refuses some procedures and pays nothing for prescription. So another great plan was begun with the prescription plan. And again everyone wants it for nothing.Instead of paying the full cost "the donuthole" requires you pay for the full cost for a time. Again not enough to satisfy "your wants or demands"

Explain to me again why someone else is responsible to provide you with your "wants".

Why are businesses,any business responsible to pay your way if you have not previously carried insurance?. Previous insurance prohibits a company from using the pre-existing clause. The insurance companies are also prohibited from cancelling because of claims.

Do you give your wants to the auto insurer? Tell them what you want and what you consider affordable.Same for your homeowners,do they tailor their premiums to your wants?

How about your energy companies? I don't think they pay much attention to your wants.

We have to have the brakes replaced in my husband's van. They did not ask me what I thought I should pay,they told me if I wanted the job done this is what it will cost.

What I would want is the government out of my health care. Use medicare for those that truly cannot pay their insurance premiums.

I want the drug companies to continue the research and developing of life saving drugs.

I want then to continue to provide free medications for those truly in need.

Had we been allowed to stay on private insurance we would not have to deal with the donuthole portion of the prescription drug plan.

I don't want Obama getting thru with the bundling of medicare. Had that been in effect as he would like,my husband would be dead. Instead he is active and healthy.

I do not want someone like Obama to decide if grandma should have medical treatment or take a pain pill.

I do not want Obama dictating I am my brother's keeper,that is between God and myself,not Obama,God and myself

I want him leaving religion out of impending bills.

Funny how excited everyone got over Bush's Faith Based charities.

[Zeta]

SORRY BONNIE. OUR POLITICIANS ARE PART OF A GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH PROGRAMS AND THEY, GET TO CHOOSE THE OPTION THAT BEST FIT THEIR NEEDS!!! FACT, FACT,FACT.

THINK, IF YOU ARE EMPLOYED WITH HEALTH INSURANCE AND THE RATES CONTINUE TO INCREASE, WHICH MEAN YOUR EMPLOYER IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME MAJOR DECISIONS; CHANGE INSURANCE IF HE CAN FIND ONE TO MEET THE NEEDS OF HIS EMPLOYEES; ABSORB SOME OF THE COST WHICH MEAN YOU WILL BE PAYING HIGH RATES, WHICH PROBABLY ALSO MEAN THAT YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO GET A RAISE OR COST OR LIVING INCREASE BECAUSE OF THE HIGH COST OF HEALTH INSURANCE. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE WORKING POOR, INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE ONE PAY CHECK AWAY FROM POVERTY, GOOD HEALTH CARE SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO ALL CITIZENS AT A LEVEL THAT THEY CAN AFFORD.

I HAVE NOT SEEM ANYTHING IN THE PROPOSED PLAN THAT INDICATE CONGRESS

WILL DICTATE HOW ANYONE SHOULD DETERMINE THEIR LEVEL OF CARE.

HOWEVER, THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY DOES DICTATE(REGULATE) WHAT CAN/CAN'T BE COVERED, HOW MUCH YOUR RATES WILL BE, AT ANY POINT CAN INCREASE\YOUR RATES AND DROP YOU FROM THEIR PLAN.

AS INDICATED, I REALLY DON'T GIVE A .... WHO SITS IN THE WHITE HOUSE OR WHAT PARTY THEY BELONG TO. MY ISSUE IS AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL CITIZENS. IF PRESIDENT OBAMA AND THIS CONGRESS THINK THEY

PASS A UNIVERSAL HEALTH PLAN, IT IS YET TO BE SEEN.

[Zeta]

ARE YOU ADVOCATING THAT CANCER PATIENTS NOT BE INSURED BECAUSE THAT MAY HAVE FOUND OUT TOO LATE ABOUT THEIR ILLNESS.

WE DO NOT LIVE IN AN IDEAL SOCIETY.

AND YES, I AM MY BROTHERS KEEPER. BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT GOD EXPECTS OF ME. NOT, TO ONLY BE CONCERNED ABOUT SELF.

[bonnie]

ARE YOU ADVOCATING THAT CANCER PATIENTS NOT BE INSURED BECAUSE THAT MAY HAVE FOUND OUT TOO LATE ABOUT THEIR ILLNESS.

WE DO NOT LIVE IN AN IDEAL SOCIETY.

AND YES, I AM MY BROTHERS KEEPER. BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT GOD EXPECTS OF ME. NOT, TO ONLY BE CONCERNED ABOUT SELF.

[Zeta]

I AM THE LEAST BIT CONCERNED ABOUT THE MAN OR HIS BROTHER, I AM MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT HE DOES TO REMEDY THE ILLS OF THIS NATION.

YOU ARE YOUR BROTHER'S KEEPER.

[Guest]

Hey Zeta, if you hit that little button on the left that says Caps Lock, it lowers the volume.

[bonnie]

Quote:

SORRY BONNIE. OUR POLITICIANS ARE PART OF A GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH PROGRAMS AND THEY, GET TO CHOOSE THE OPTION THAT BEST FIT THEIR NEEDS!!! FACT, FACT,FACT.

I WILL CHECK THAT OUT LATER AND SEE WHAT IT IS NOW. THEY DID NOT HAVE A SPECIAL POLICY WRITTEN JUST FOR THEM. THEY DID HAVE GREAT COVERAGE BECAUSE THEY COULD TAKE THE BEST AND MAKE US PAY FOR IT

Quote:

THINK, IF YOU ARE EMPLOYED WITH HEALTH INSURANCE AND THE RATES CONTINUE TO INCREASE, WHICH MEAN YOUR EMPLOYER IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME MAJOR DECISIONS;

I HAVE NEVER QUITE UNDERSTOOD HOW IT IS MANDATED FOR THE EMPLOYER TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HEALTH CARE OF MY FAMILY.

OBAMA WILL TAKE CARE OF ANY MAJOR DECISIONS. IT WILL BE MADE THAT PRIVATE INSURANCE IS GRADUALLY PHASED OUT.THE EMPLOYER WILL PAY 8% PENALTY AND TURN YOU OVER TO THE TENDER MERCIES OF THE GOVERNMENT.

Quote:

CHANGE INSURANCE IF HE CAN FIND ONE TO MEET THE NEEDS OF HIS EMPLOYEES; ABSORB SOME OF THE COST WHICH MEAN YOU WILL BE PAYING HIGH RATES, WHICH PROBABLY ALSO MEAN THAT YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO GET A RAISE OR COST OR LIVING INCREASE BECAUSE OF THE HIGH COST OF HEALTH INSURANCE

WHY IS IT UP TO MY EMPLOYER TO FIND A INSURANCE HE CAN AFFORD TO PAY ON BEHALF OF MY FAMILY?

.

Quote:

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE WORKING POOR, INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE ONE PAY CHECK AWAY FROM POVERTY, GOOD HEALTH CARE SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO ALL CITIZENS AT A LEVEL THAT THEY CAN AFFORD.

YEAH i HAVE HEARD OF THE WORKING POOR.LIVED IT ALMOST MY WHOLE CHILDHHOD AND HAD SOME VERY ROUGH YEARS AFTER.

NO ONE OWES ME ANYTHING.NO ONE OWES ME MY HEALTH CARE.EXPLAIN TO ME THE LOGIC THAT HEALTH CARE IS TO BE A CHARITABLE BUSINESS.MEDICAID IS AVAILABLE TO MANY OF THE WORKING POOR.

THE GOVERNMENT MAKES A FINANCIAL SHAMBLES OF ANYTHING THEY RUN.

THE POST OFFICE,MEDICARE,MEDICAID,CASH FOR CLUNKERS IS A GREAT CURRENT ENDEAVOR.

Quote:

I HAVE NOT SEEM ANYTHING IN THE PROPOSED PLAN THAT INDICATE CONGRESS

WILL DICTATE HOW ANYONE SHOULD DETERMINE THEIR LEVEL OF CARE.

YOU MUST HAVE MISSED A FEW PAGES.OBAMA HAS SAID TO SAVE MONEY HE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE BUNDLING OF MEDICARE PAYMENTS. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS?

THAT IS WHERE THE DR ACCEPTS AND IS PAID A FLAT RATE FOR MEDICARE PATIENTS,WHETHER HE SEES THEM OR NOT. THE PENALTY COMES IN WITH RUNNING TESTS ON THE PATIENTS TO DIAGNOSE.THE DR PAYS A PENALTY FOR TO MANY TESTS OR NOT CURING THE PATIENT QUICKLY AND CHEAPLY

Quote:

HOWEVER, THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY DOES DICTATE(REGULATE) WHAT CAN/CAN'T BE COVERED, HOW MUCH YOUR RATES WILL BE, AT ANY POINT CAN INCREASE\YOUR RATES AND DROP YOU FROM THEIR PLAN.

I WOULD CERTAINLY HOPE SO.BY DOING SO THEY ARE NOT BANKRUPT LIKE THE GOVERNMENT RUN MEDICARE.I WANT THEM AROUND FOR AWHILE ,MY HUSBANDS HEALTH CONCERNS ARE SUCH WE KNOW WE WILL BE NEEDING THEM.

WHEN WE CARRIED PRIVATE INSURANCE I READ THE TERMS AND COVERAGE.IF I DIDN'T LIKE WHAT I READ I WENT WITH ANOTHER COMPANY.

YOU NEED TO DO A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH BEFORE REPEATING THEY

DROPPED YOU FROM THE PLAN. NO LONGER CAN DO.

WHY WOULDN'T A INSURANCE COMPANY DICTATE THE TERMS TO THEIR COVERAGE,THEY WILL BE PICKING UP THE TAB.

MY AUTO INSURANCE AND MY HOMEOWNERS DO THE SAME THING.

Quote:

AS INDICATED, I REALLY DON'T GIVE A .... WHO SITS IN THE WHITE HOUSE OR WHAT PARTY THEY BELONG TO. MY ISSUE IS AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL CITIZENS. IF PRESIDENT OBAMA AND THIS CONGRESS THINK THEY

PASS A UNIVERSAL HEALTH PLAN, IT IS YET TO BE SEEN.

AFFORDABLE OR WHAT YOU CONSIDER AFFORDABLE IS NOT YOUR RIGHT AT MY EXPENSE.

IT WILL PASS,MAYBE A SCALED DOWN VERSION TO GET THEIR FOOT IN THE DOOR.

WE WILL HAVE THE GOVERNMENT DICTATING WHAT TESTS YOU GET,WHAT TREATMENT ,WHEN YOU HAVE REACHED THE AGE WHERE THEY DON'T CONSIDER YOU PRODUCTIVE ANYMORE AND WORTH THE COST.

WHEN THEY CAN PEOPLE COME FROM CANADA AND ELSEWHERE TO BE TREATED HERE AS THEY CANNOT OR THE WAITING LIST IS TO LONG IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

MY HUSBAND AND I WAITED THRU 10 HOURS OF TESTING WITH OTHER FAMILIES THAT HAD THE SAME HEALTH PROBLEM MY HUSBAND HAD.

THE COUPLE WE SPENT THE MOST TIME WITH WAS FROM CANADA. HIS TESTS WERE MONTHS AWAY IN CANADA. THEY WERE AFRAID HE WOULD NOT LIVE TO HAVE THE TESTS. THEY CAME TO THE US FOR THEM.

MY COUSIN AND HER HUSBAND CAME TO THE US TO HAVE TESTS RUN.THEY KNEW FROM THE WAY HE FELT IT WAS SERIOUS. ANOTHER VERY LONG WAIT,HE WAS CONSCIOUS,NOT HAVING A HEAT ATTACK,NOT BLEEDING TO DEATH SO HE WAS ON A WAIT LIST.

CAME TO NEW YORK AND WHEN THE DR WAS DONE EXAMINING HIM ARRANGEMENTS WERE MADE IMMEDIATELY TO GO TO MAYO. I JUST FOUND OUT THAT MAYO CUT COSTS TO THE BONE SO THEY COULD AFFORD TO GO. MAYO IMMEDIATELY SCHEDULED SURGERY. HE HAD A VERY AGGRESSIVE FORM OF STOMACH CANCER AND WOULD NOT HAVE SURVIVED TO MAKE IT TO CANADA TESTING.

I DO NOT WANT A COVERAGE THAT DETERMINES THE VALUE OF LIFE OF ONE OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS.

I DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING MY LIFE OR MY HEALTH.

THE NUMBERS OF THOSE WITHOUT INSURANCE IS RATHER SMALL.

45-50 MILLION IN THE US.13-15 MILLION IS ILLEGAL ALIENS,ANOTHER 10-12?? IS ALREADY COVERED BY MEDICARE BUT THEY DON'T SIGN UP,ANOTHER OVER 10 MILLION ARE THOSE MAKING OVER 50,00O A YEAR THAT HAVE ELECTED OUT OF INSURANCE.

[bonnie]

I AM THE LEAST BIT CONCERNED ABOUT THE MAN OR HIS BROTHER, I AM MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT HE DOES TO REMEDY THE ILLS OF THIS NATION.

YOU ARE YOUR BROTHER'S KEEPER.

WHY DON'T YOU TRY READING.MADE IT ALL CAPS SO YOU COULD SEE IT.

THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE ONE TO MANDATE OR DICTATE ME TO BE MY BROTHERS KEEPER.THAT IS BETWEEN GOD AND I

IF HE CANNOT BE HIS BIOLOGICAL BROTHER'S KEEPER,WHAT BUSINESS DOES HE HAVE TRYING TO MAKE IT A FEDERAL LAW THAT I DO.

HE WILL REMEDY IT FOR YOU OF THAT I HAVE LITTLE DOUBT.

[Zeta]

PREHAPS, YOU NEED TO RE-READ MY POST. I

GET IT. BUT, WHAT YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING IS THAT I NEVER, NEVER INDICATED THAT BEING ('MY BROTHERS' KEEPER')WAS ANYONE RESPONSIBILITY.

"ME" "I" AM MY BROTHERS' KEEPER BECAUSE "I" KNOW THAT IT IS WHAT GOD

WANTS OF "ME". TO LOOK BEYOND MY ON NEEDS AND CONCERN MYSELF WITH THE NEEDS OF OTHERS AND IF I CAN LEND A HAND, DO SO. I CAN NOT AT THIS POINT AFFECT WHAT HAPPENS IN WASHINGTON BUT, I CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN WHAT I DO.. I GUESS YOUR LAST COMMENT ("HE WILL REMEDY IT FOR YOU OF THAT I AM SURE"), MEAN THAT ANY CHANGES THAT TAKE PLACE WILL NOT BE BENEFICIAL TO YOU AND YOU WILL CONTINUE WITH THE OLD WAY OF DOING THINGS. THE WORD IS PROGRESS. LOOK BEYOND THE PHYSICAL MAN.

WHAT IS YOUR PURPOSE?

'IF YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION THEN YOU MAY BE PART OF THE PROBLEM.'

I AM MY BROTHERS KEEPER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zeta]

"THE NUMBERS OF THOSE WITHOUT INSURANCE IS RATHER SMALL."

I can't believe that you made that comment, your state 'Minnesota"

is one of those states with the highest percentage of individuals without health insurance as, well as unemployment. Prehaps, Bonnie,

life is good and all your needs are met however others aren't as fortunate.

[phkrause]

I think that that is very commendable Zeta. There are many people who need help. And the way things are going with the health care system, more and more companies are doing less and less for there employees. Now personally I know that companies don't have to give there employees sick time, vacation, healthcare, etc.

pk

[CyberGuy]

The government botches whatever it puts its hands into. Also it tends to dip its hands into the pot to raid the funds for other purposes. Social security has been in the black for decades but the goverment has been raiding the fund to pay for other projects for years. Now when the funds are about to be in the red the surplus is not there. If this was a corporation the CEOs would be going to jail but the government makes the rules and rules that apply to others do not apply to themselves.

Once we have a 8 percent payroll tax for this government fund health care they will raid the fund to pay for other projects. Social projects are always popular until it starts to affect oneself. Like ones own employee health care is dropped in favor of the cheaper government run play. You see the government tends to pay only 80 cents on the dollar on what it costs. Soon the quality of health care will go down as profits go down and corporations are less inclined to put money into an industry that does not make any profits for themselves. Soon rationed health care will occur as a shortage of doctors and procedutes are ineventful. Soon the government will have to say who lives and who dies. For delaying health care will cause many to die from lack of surgury that will result from a government health care plan.

[CyberGuy]

If a Government health care plan goes into effect we shall have to do what the canadians do. Save a portion of our salary for a rainy day medical procedure like surgury that we need that the government will not do for lack of funds or rationed care. We shall have to go to India like many rich americans do now to get the cheaper medical surgeryies done. Only option of a cancer surgury will save our lives but the government says we cannot do it for six months and the doctor tells us we would be dead in six months. That is what many Candians do only now they will have to go to India that has good medical hospitals but not as good as they do in the USA.

[phkrause]

They have government run healthcare in England and they seem to be OK. And I think I've mentioned it before my relatives that live in Germany love there healthcare. There always telling my mom, because she's always complaining about her healthcare, that they have great healthcare. So we will see. The healthcare we have now is just getting costlier and costlier.

pk

[Zeta]

Thanks to everyone that emailed me, this is my first forum and I simply didn't know that capital letter meant I was shouting/yelling.

I sincerely hope i didn't offend anyone. But, my message need no

apologies.

[CyberGuy]

They have government run healthcare in England and they seem to be OK. And I think I've mentioned it before my relatives that live in Germany love there healthcare. There always telling my mom, because she's always complaining about her healthcare, that they have great healthcare. So we will see. The healthcare we have now is just getting costlier and costlier.

pk

Fox News had a person from England tell the horror stories of rationed health care from Great Britain. Love it. Maybe for those without a health condition. Yet when you get a health condition that requires prompt attention that is when Britains health care shows its cracks. Delayed health care can be a death sentence. That is what we will get under a government run health care system.

[bonnie]

Quote:

I can't believe that you made that comment, your state 'Minnesota"

is one of those states with the highest percentage of individuals without health insurance as, well as unemployment. Prehaps, Bonnie,

life is good and all your needs are met however others aren't as fortunate.

This is the most inaccurate statement you have made yet.

MN traditionally has a high rate of employment and even in a recession it is higher than most. Not sure what it is now but earlier this summer it was at 8.4% when the average was 9.7%

There is no excuse for any in MN to be without health care.

We have one of the most generous welfare payouts. Many move here to take advantage of that. We have of course medicaid in addition we have MN care for those that don't qualify for welfare but can't afford insurance. I worked with a woman that had MN care coverage for her and her two children for 75.00 a month.

We are blessed with hospitals that take those that cannot pay,they take those that can only pay a portion.

If someone is going without health coverage in MN it is their

own doing

My needs are not mysteriously met by anyone. We are not wealthy by any means.

I know what it is like to be cold,hungry and scared as a child,to lose everything as a adult without so much as a pair of shoes for my sons.

Those that are in true need I will do everything I can to help. Those that can help themselves with a little outside boost and don't,please stay out of my checkbook

[Zeta]

this is a recent report from your state.

Minnesota Unemployment Rate Slows to Smallest Increase Since September

Although Minnesota’s new March unemployment numbers, released this morning by the state's Department of Employment and Economic Development, are the highest since May 1983, the 8.2 percent seasonally adjusted rate marks the slowest rate of decline in jobs in the Gopher State in half a year.

Jobless claims rose from 8.0 percent in February to 8.2 percent in March’s.

Source: Current Employment Statistics (DEED/BLS)

More national, state and substate CES details.

Minnesota lost 102,200 jobs over the year in July, down 3.7 percent from one year ago. This represents an improvement in the rate of over the year job loss, which stood at its historical record last month of -4.0 percent.

Some other sectors show job loss over the year, with the largest declines in Manufacturing, down 38,900 jobs, and Professional & Business Services, down 31,900 jobs over the year.