Elijah Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Sorry again for my English, I'm from Russia. Recently a guy asked me to translate a sentence from eng. to russian. The problem is that this guy is against Godhead teaching, and against therefore the teaching of personality of Holy Spirit. I'd like you to help me in this matter. Would you please explain me what the sentence means: "The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof." Especially the words: "divested of the personality of humanity". Here is the context: Although our Lord ascended from earth to heaven, the Holy Spirit was appointed as His representative among men. "If ye love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless" [John 14:15-18]. {14MR 23.2} Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent. "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall (although unseen by you), [THIS PHRASE WAS ADDED BY ELLEN WHITE.] teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" [John 14:26]. "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will come not unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you" [John 16:7]. {14MR 23.3} Thanks for all your help. Quote Revelation 14:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 25, 2009 Moderators Share Posted August 25, 2009 I think it means that Jesus became human when he was born to a woman, and therefore he can only be in one place at a time. The Holy Spirit is not human, and can therefore be everywhere at once. That's what 'omnipresent' means in that passage. 'Divested' is not the best word for EGW to have chosen, since it suggests that the Holy Spirit once had a human personality but got rid of it, where it seems more accurate to say that the Holy Spirit was never human. Anyway, I think that's the meaning of the passage you're asking about. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted August 25, 2009 Moderators Share Posted August 25, 2009 The words, "divested of the personality of humanity," simply means that the Holy Spirit doesn't have a human personality and therefore He is able to be everywhere at once. Christ cannot do this because Christ has a human personality and body. Some people believe that "Himself" is a reference to Christ, as if it's saying the Holy Spirit is Christ. But that is mistaken. "Himself" is a reflective pronoun and refers back to the subject, Spirit. It would be like saying, "The King is himself invested with great power...." If Ellen White intended to say the Holy Spirit is Christ, she would have written: "The Holy Spirit is Christ divested of the personality of humanity...." But of course she does not say this, and in fact she writes elsewhere that the Holy Spirit and Christ are distinct persons, or distinct personalities. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Thank you all. The problem was not even in the word "Himself" but "divested of the personality of humanity" or even "divested of the personality", because some think that and this is a very wide spread point of view between anti-trinitarian movements in Russia, that Holy Spirit isn't Person at all. Thank you again, and if you dwell upon this expression - divested of the personality of humanity - more fully i would be really grateful for that. Thanks again for help. Let God fully bless you all who praise Him in truth Quote Revelation 14:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Sorry again to disturb you, but here's another question to the same quote but as it had been already mentioned above to another expression: "Holy Spirit is Himself divested". And especially on the word "Himself". Also another one: why several decades there was a tendency to write "Him" instead of "him", or "His" instead of "his" referring to Christ and Holy Spirit? Cause as far as i know E.W. wrote it with small letters. Great thanks again.... Quote Revelation 14:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 You kind of have to understand the differences between modern and ancient languages. The OT was written in Hebrew, and the NT was written in Greek. They did not capitalize things in neither Hebrew nor ancient Greek. The word God in NT Hebrew is el, elohim and eloah... all smaller letters. There's also tetragrammaton - יהוה , which we pronounce Yahweh. This one is actual name of God of the Bible. The name of God is not "God" (Which kind of puts a spin on the third commandment) God is a title, just like human is a title. As Russian speaker, you may likewise know that proper name of Christ is Yeshua, and not Jesus. Jesus is not even close, but that's what transliteration did, and that's what we are living with today. Nevertheless... some people think it's important to capitalize God, and Him, and He. Other prefer proper English approach and do not, since it is a reference, and not the actual name... yet I find it funny that journalists would capitalize President, and would not extend the same favor to God? I prefer to capitalize the references if I refer to Yahweh God. If it's Zeus god for example, I don't think it matters. Just a matter of respect using English language. P.S... I'm a Russian native speaker too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 In my opinion, the best way to translate .... "The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof." would be U Svyatogo Duha nyet cheloveshyeskoy lichnosti, i on nyezavisimiy ot nyeyo (lichnosti). I would somewhat disagree about the statement, as all of us are made in the image of ELOHIM... plural. So, all three in Trinity carry attributes of humanity. Holy Spirit definitely possesses a personality that is described clearly. He has emotions (grieve and etc), He speaks (i.e. 1 Tim 1:1), He intercedes (Ro 8:26). So, it's definitely some personality there. In my opinion, it's just poor choice of words on her part. I think that by "divested" she meant "lacks" ... or "does not have". And I likewise think that there are plenty of "human" attributes to make the Holy Spirit have a "personality". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 26, 2009 Moderators Share Posted August 26, 2009 fccool, you might want to edit the post 2 above this one and pull down the 'us HTML and BBCode' thingy at the bottom of the editing window - it should make your Hebrew characters work properly Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Did ... thank you for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Thank you all. The problem was not even in the word "Himself" but "divested of the personality of humanity" or even "divested of the personality", because some think that and this is a very wide spread point of view between anti-trinitarian movements in Russia, that Holy Spirit isn't Person at all. Thank you again, and if you dwell upon this expression - di If the Holy Spirit is divested of human personality, from where does He get and give these gifts? "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. "Galatians 5:21-24 NKJV Blessings! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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