Indoctrination of our Youth

[Woody]

What do you think of Obama trying to address our Youth with his indoctrination and having them "help him accomplish his goals" ?

[Neil D]

Well, that depends upon what goals were express during his speach...If the goal expressed were to "stay in school, become educated in whatever field you choose", I have absolutely no problem with it...If he even said that we need to find ways to lower our dependance upon foriegn oil, increase our energy production, clean up our envioroment to make the world a better place, and to be basically responsible for what we do, I see absolutely no problem with it....

Now, if he were to 'indoctrinate' our young with a message that said that we need to lower taxes, worship God, and exterminate the godless heathen around the world, I would have a bit of a problem with that....

[Guest]

The clip I saw, had them pledging alliegance to obama.

[Neil D]

Really?....you sure?

from a main line news source...?

Not some obscure place off the internet...? Nor some rightwing news source like Worlddailynet.com making something up....

[bonnie]

The clip I saw, had them pledging alliegance to obama.

This is the one that caused a lot of backlash. Especially the Pledge to be of service to Obama.

Obama doesn't need to concern his little head over how many times my kids flush a toilet after they use it.

By Lisa Schencker

09/02/2009

A school principal has apologized for showing a video at an assembly that a politically conservative group leader is calling "radical, leftist propaganda."

Children at Eagle Bay Elementary School in Farmington were shown a short video called "I pledge" on Aug. 28. The video opens with an image of President Barack Obama and part of a speech in which he says, "Let us summon a new spirit of patriotism, of responsibility where each of us resolves to pitch in and work harder and look after not only ourselves but each other." The video then features celebrities making pledges about how they will help the president and the world — and that’s where some say the problem lies…

"Showing the video in a public school is completely inappropriate," said Jennifer Cieslewicz, whose daughter is a first-grader at the school. "I don’t believe a video such as this that promotes certain values should be shown to elementary students, especially without parents being aware. "

Chris Williams, Davis School District spokesman, said school principal Ofelia Wade and school PTA leaders decided to show the video as part of an assembly about the school’s theme for the year, service. He said the PTA board chose the video and Wade did not see it before it was shown in the assembly.

"It got to a point where she turned to her assistant and said, ‘Oops, I wish I would have seen this before. I don’t think I would have shown it,’ " Williams said. He said Wade could see how some adults might find the video political.

"She acknowledges she was wrong and apologizes for it and says she’s sorry," Williams said. Attempts to reach school PTA leaders Tuesday evening were unsuccessful.

Williams said Wade plans to send a letter home to parents Wednesday about the issue.

Gayle Ruzicka, president of conservative Utah Eagle Forum, said the video was blatantly political. She said other offensive pledges included, "I pledge to be of service to Barack Obama," "I pledge allegiance to the funk, to the united funk of funkadelica," and pledges to not use plastic grocery bags and not flush the toilet after urinating.

"It’s very inappropriate to show a radical, leftist propaganda piece that political to children," Ruzicka said. "If parents want their children to learn about those things and do them in the home, wonderful, fine, but it’s not the place of the school to show a one-sided propaganda piece to children without parents knowing about it."

Cieslewicz said such values should be decided in the home, not at school.

"They shouldn’t be troubling our youth with the woes of the world and making them feel like we’re in slavery or they have to worry about how many times they flush the toilet or if they have a plastic water bottle," Cieslewicz said, referring to pledges in the video to "end slavery."

Ruzicka said she contacted local media about the video after receiving complaints from several parents. Ruzicka said she worried the video’s messages would confuse children whose parents might choose to use plastic bags when shopping or who want their children to flush the toilet after every use. Also she said she didn’t like a pledge "to be of service to Barack Obama" as he is here to serve Americans, not the other way around…

[bonnie]

The clip I saw, had them pledging alliegance to obama.

MN is a very liberal state. I was surprised at the number of schools refusing to show it

[Neil D]

I keep hoping that there is someone over here that is accually open to dialogue...I doubt that this is gonna happen...Most of the mentality that I see here is so wolfish, it will devoure all the young and innocent...

But here is something that you might chew on...I thought it educated enough that maybe some of your intellectual could refute the conclusions of this author..,...then again, probably not...

Quote:

It is possible that if I were a truly gifted satirist -- a Twain, Mencken or the like -- I could find a more imaginative way of describing all of this. If I were a Swift or a Hunter S. Thompson, I imagine I could pull it off. Perhaps.

On the other hand, maybe none of those people lived in times quite like this. Sure, they lived in ridiculous times, and among ridiculous people, and saw truly asinine things. But this ridiculous, populated by people this stubbornly gullible, and this celebrated by their own leaders? I'm no longer sure that it's a given. Perhaps we have managed to shoot the moon, to wrap around again to the point where uninformed, dribbling paranoia is now finally and permanently more respectable than actual governance. Sarah Palin is, for a large part of the Republican Party, the closest thing to an intellectual voice that their version of know-nothing populism will allow, and that is very nearly the scariest thought to set itself down in the political landscape for a great many years.

Republican leaders have taken intelligence to the guillotine, and lopped its head clean off: from now on "the opposition is plotting to kill your grandmother" will have far more sway, in politics, than any actual realities of a healthcare system clearly and blatantly gone wrong. We boo those with medical conditions. We deny outright that the first non-white President of the United States is even a citizen of his own country, much less leader of it. We still insist that an administration breaking the law is less divisive and controversial than daring to investigate it. We put brick-stupid or malevolently selfish people on television, and feign outrage at anyone who points out their stupidity or selfishness. And the President speaking to your children is the onset of communism, although perhaps barely a tenth of the population that utter it have any actual notion of what "communism" might actually be.

Honestly, at this point I wonder if we do not deserve every bit of what we get. We worked very hard to erode the public-mindedness of our government, press and citizenry enough to get to this point. Perhaps we should count ourselves lucky if future American generations can write their own names.

::

[Woody]

Quote:

"I pledge to be of service to Barack Obama," "I pledge allegiance to the funk, to the united funk of funkadelica," and pledges to not use plastic grocery bags and not flush the toilet after urinating.

"It’s very inappropriate to show a radical, leftist propaganda piece that political to children," Ruzicka said.

I have to agree that this is inappropriate. I am surprised even with BO.

[Woody]

Quote:

Most of the mentality that I see here is so wolfish, it will devoure all the young and innocent...

Yes. I do have to agree with you. I had just expected better of B.O. . To be in prey of our children is terrible.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Most of the mentality that I see here is so wolfish, it will devoure all the young and innocent...

Yes. I do have to agree with you. I had just expected better of B.O. . To be in prey of our children is terrible.

We certainly should pattern our manners ,concerns,ideology to the examples we have before us.

[CyberGuy]

Well, that depends upon what goals were express during his speach...If the goal expressed were to "stay in school, become educated in whatever field you choose", I have absolutely no problem with it...If he even said that we need to find ways to lower our dependance upon foriegn oil, increase our energy production, clean up our envioroment to make the world a better place, and to be basically responsible for what we do, I see absolutely no problem with it....

Now, if he were to 'indoctrinate' our young with a message that said that we need to lower taxes, worship God, and exterminate the godless heathen around the world, I would have a bit of a problem with that....

What about. Ramming health care down your parents throats? Or Raising taxes 15 percent to pay for health care and I (Obama)need your support to stop your parents from objecting from taking money to pay for food for you kids so I (Obama) can fund health care?

[Woody]

Good Post CyberGuy

[Neil D]

What about. Ramming health care down your parents throats? Or Raising taxes 15 percent to pay for health care and I (Obama)need your support to stop your parents from objecting from taking money to pay for food for you kids so I (Obama) can fund health care?

What "ramming health care down your parents throats"? As I understand the current bill, it currently is modifying current health care rules, and making a "health care option" for those who need it but can not afford it. Key word= "option"...that's not ramming....that is not non-choice. It is prudent to have some form of health care in this society, even if you can not afford it....That's some sort of "general welfare" clause in the consitution...rememeber?

What you are upset about, Cyberguy, is that you don't want to pay for it...You hate taxes....right? Well, that's a legitament concern....and one that I am not crazy about myself....

But this 'foaming at the mouth" rabid arguments that have NO BASIS for legitimacy is the result of paranoia or racism...You get to take your pick as to which one of these labels you want for yourself.

[bonnie]

Quote:

But this 'foaming at the mouth" rabid arguments that have NO BASIS for legitimacy is the result of paranoia or racism...You get to take your pick as to which one of these labels you want for yourself.

Your reporting to a moderator is a good idea. It will not do any good but I would like the moderator to tell me what gives you the license to accuse others here that they are racist because they disagree with you

[Neil D]

Your reporting to a moderator is a good idea. It will not do any good but I would like the moderator to tell me what gives you the license to accuse others here that they are racist because they disagree with you

Bonnie,

I never labeled anyone as racist or paranoid. I did not say that "Yer paranoid"...I said that the arguements used are based upone reasoning that is paranoid or racisted in origin...As a result, the person seeing the arguement, if he is rational, will see the arguement as either racist or paranoid....I am attacking the idea, not the person....

Now, in talking about me, I feel a paranoia coming on...I see all these arguements about me attacking people, and labeling them as racist..In fact, implications that I am using the words "scum sucking pig" or "dirty dog" are associated with my use of those words......and I feel that some are attacking ME.

Am I paranoid or what?

[bonnie]

Quote:

I never labeled anyone as racist or paranoid. I did not say that "Yer paranoid"...I said that the arguements used are based upone reasoning that is paranoid or racisted in origin...As a result, the person seeing the arguement, if he is rational, will see the arguement as either racist or paranoid....I am attacking the idea, not the person....

There hasn't been any racists statements. Only those that want a racist connotation will find racism.

Quote:

Now, in talking about me, I feel a paranoia coming on...I see all these arguements about me attacking people, and labeling them as racist..In fact, implications that I am using the words "scum sucking pig" or "dirty dog" are associated with my use of those words......and I feel that some are attacking ME.

Am I paranoid or what?

Little paranoid.You were not the one to make those statements,you were the one that allowed them. That was at odds with your complaint againsts RH.

You are either against name calling or you are not. You have not shown yourself to be against them or maybe against them depending on who has made them

[there buster]

Quote:

I never labeled anyone as racist or paranoid.

Quote:

But this 'foaming at the mouth" rabid arguments that have NO BASIS for legitimacy is the result of paranoia or racism...You get to take your pick as to which one of these labels you want for yourself.

Actually, you did just that. You gave them a choice of two labels, "racist" or "paranoid," but you supplied the labels, no one else. And you gave no other choices.

[bonnie]

Quote:

I never labeled anyone as racist or paranoid.

Quote:

But this 'foaming at the mouth" rabid arguments that have NO BASIS for legitimacy is the result of paranoia or racism...You get to take your pick as to which one of these labels you want for yourself.

Actually, you did just that. You gave them a choice of two labels, "racist" or "paranoid," but you supplied the labels, no one else. And you gave no other choices.

For eight years the nasty and vicious attacks on George Bush was unrelenting. Free country,we should be allowed to speak out about even our president. There should be some attempt no matter how small to do so honestly.

Many of us are opposed to Obama and so have become paranoid racists.It could not possibly be because of the man himself and where he is taking this country.

As posted in another thread there didn't seem to be a limit to the lengths a democrat would go with Bush. Recommending hearings for essentially the same speech Obama gave today. Where are the calls for investigation.Or was it just because it was Bush?

The difference between Bush and Obama is Bush did not tailor his speech after people found out what was in it.

Not once democrat has a problem with having a unvetted self proclaimed communist in a position of power,accountable only to the president that placed him in that position.

Any one wanting to see what Obama has surrounded himself with needs to read the history of the other rather radical,extreme individuals and understand the direction they would like to take us

[lazarus]

I think Bonnie we have found that many of your attacks, in particular, have very little relationship to reality or fact.

It bears repeating that often you say "I'll look for it" and you hardly if ever come back with "it" which leads me to conclude that it may have never existed in the first place. It's one thing to simply post your opinion but to pass them off as truth is another.

[Neil D]

Quote:

I never labeled anyone as racist or paranoid.

Quote:

But this 'foaming at the mouth" rabid arguments that have NO BASIS for legitimacy is the result of paranoia or racism...You get to take your pick as to which one of these labels you want for yourself.

Actually, you did just that. You gave them a choice of two labels, "racist" or "paranoid," but you supplied the labels, no one else. And you gave no other choices.

Actually, that is not true, Ed. If your reasoning is in paranoid logic or centers in racist logic, the receiver of that Post will recognize it...and label it accordingly...I may have recognized the source of the logic, and labeled the logic, but that is because you have no other source of logic...if you give me another source, say like hope ...or common sense....and I will label it as such....My comments to Cyberguy regarding his fear of cost of healthcare is evidence of that, Ed.

Now, I would like to get back to the thread, if you don't mind Ed.

[bonnie]

I think Bonnie we have found that many of your attacks, in particular, have very little relationship to reality or fact.

It bears repeating that often you say "I'll look for it" and you hardly if ever come back with "it" which leads me to conclude that it may have never existed in the first place. It's one thing to simply post your opinion but to pass them off as truth is another.

Maybe you mean liked Zita asked for. Obama's plunging polls.

Did you mean that more and more are against his so -called health care?

Maybe the bellyache they had when Bush gave his little speech to the school kids. personally I think it a photo op for both. The difference is Bush did not have to tailor his to the complaints.

Maybe we should go with the investgation into Bush's speech?

Ae you talking about dems turning? 23 three so far say NO.

Did you mean my saying my husband and I are paying more for our forced government savings in our insurance?

Or that every country that has already gone down this road is have major financial problems.

Maybe you doubt the "green czar" claimed to be a communist??

Or that Obama bypassed normal process putting this man in a powerful position.

Or maybe what is in the current health care?? That is okay the president doesn't know what he is trying to pass into law either

Tell me which one please

[Dr. Shane]

In some circles, certainly there is some racism in the criticism of President Obama. That is not to say any of our members here are racists - NOT AT ALL. It is simply to say that some of us hear listen to people on the radio, watch them on TV or read written media by people that have racist inclinations - EVEN THOUGH WE MAY NOT BE AWARE OF IT. Few racists go around wearing white hoods and robes. Many racists today do not even realize they are racist.

President G.W. Bush was criticized by a lot of people that felt threatened by his religious commitment. Much of the Bush hatred we saw and heard was from the secular left. I don't believe any of our members here are part of the secular left but they most certainly were exposed to such secularists in some form of media.

The reason we need to stay focused on ideas and not other members is because a lot of the ideas that get brought here by our members are not actually their ideas. They bring them here from a newspaper, magazine, radio program, TV broadcast and sometimes even from blogs.

[bonnie]

In some circles, certainly there is some racism in the criticism of President Obama. That is not to say any of our members here are racists - NOT AT ALL. It is simply to say that some of us hear listen to people on the radio, watch them on TV or read written media by people that have racist inclinations - EVEN THOUGH WE MAY NOT BE AWARE OF IT. Few racists go around wearing white hoods and robes. Many racists today do not even realize they are racist.

President G.W. Bush was criticized by a lot of people that felt threatened by his religious commitment. Much of the Bush hatred we saw and heard was from the secular left. I don't believe any of our members here are part of the secular left but they most certainly were exposed to such secularists in some form of media.

The reason we need to stay focused on ideas and not other members is because a lot of the ideas that get brought here by our members are not actually their ideas. They bring them here from a newspaper, magazine, radio program, TV broadcast and sometimes even from blogs.

We were not talking of a faceless unknown out there that is a racist.I think you know that.

Those here that have done the unthinkable and spoken against Obama, can only be explained by paranoia or racism.

Secular bigotry against Bush was not the problem. The problem was the hatred and venom spewed from here concerning Bush when he spoke of his faith. That shouldn't be accepted as a matter of course on a christian forum.

It can be explained away that way I am sure. Some actually hear the words of Obama himself and have made their determination on this man as our president.

Obama was not voted into office strictly on the black vote. Many others did so. Some I am sure because it was a novelty,many did so because they were and are not racist. As more and more come out more and more are regretting that decision if the polls and town hall meetings reflect mind set.

The charge of racism stems from here,by SDA's against SDA's that disagree. It is not coming from a secular source.

[there buster]

Quote:

Actually, that is not true, Ed.

Sadly, the evidence contradicts you. You did not say that the reasoning was paranoid or racist, but rather that it was the "result of paranoia or racism."

Paranoia or racism are states of mind. You stated that the person could choose whether to accept the label of paranoia or racism.

this is a common practice of the PTB, and quite despicable.

[Dr. Shane]

I think it fair to say that Obama got a lot of votes (from all different races) because he was black. I don't think any white guy with his resume would have had a chance at becoming the nominee much less President. So I think race clearly helped him get there.

I think it also fair to say some (albeit not most) criticism of him has a racial component to it. Such is life as a racial minority in America. Sometimes the racial thing works for a person and sometimes it works against them.