Woody Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Quote: I am attacking the idea, not the person Quote: paranoia or racism...You get to take your pick as to which one of these labels you want for yourself. Looks clear to me. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Quote: I never labeled anyone as racist or paranoid. Quote: But this 'foaming at the mouth" rabid arguments that have NO BASIS for legitimacy is the result of paranoia or racism...You get to take your pick as to which one of these labels you want for yourself. Actually, you did just that. You gave them a choice of two labels, "racist" or "paranoid," but you supplied the labels, no one else. And you gave no other choices. Exactly. It's amazing how blind we can be when it comes to our personal behaviour. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Quote: Actually, that is not true, Ed. Sadly, the evidence contradicts you. You did not say that the reasoning was paranoid or racist, but rather that it was the "result of paranoia or racism." Paranoia or racism are states of mind. You stated that the person could choose whether to accept the label of paranoia or racism. this is a common practice of the PTB, and quite despicable. Well said there buster. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 As usual, the evidence contradicts you. To some .... evidence does not matter. Even if this poster is "entirely" innocent ... the fact that the image of what he says is so negative ... THIS deserves a better response from the Poster. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shane The reason we need to stay focused on ideas and not other members is because a lot of the ideas that get brought here by our members are not actually their ideas. They bring them here from a newspaper, magazine, radio program, TV broadcast and sometimes even from blogs. Its simply important to at least post some evidence to support ones assertions about another individual. Wherever a "fact" comes from it need to be supported by some evidence. Many people cannot trace back where they heard something or exactly how their opinions were formed. They may freely express their opinion without giving its source. Just because the don't give the source of their opinion shouldn't open them up to be attacked personally for having it. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Originally Posted By: lazarus Its simply important to at least post some evidence to support ones assertions about another individual. Wherever a "fact" comes from it need to be supported by some evidence. [/quote'] Many people cannot trace back where they heard something or exactly how their opinions were formed. They may freely express their opinion without giving its source. Just because the don't give the source of their opinion shouldn't open them up to be attacked personally for having it. Here Here. Well said Shane. No one should be required to back up what they say. The majority of what is said here is 'opinion'. In fact ... I prefer reading what people here 'think' rather than posting what 'others' outside of this community 'think'. True 'facts' are hard to come by and we should not be required to provide such. One man's 'facts' is another's lies. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Originally Posted By: lazarus Its simply important to at least post some evidence to support ones assertions about another individual. Wherever a "fact" comes from it need to be supported by some evidence. [/quote'] Many people cannot trace back where they heard something or exactly how their opinions were formed. They may freely express their opinion without giving its source. Just because the don't give the source of their opinion shouldn't open them up to be attacked personally for having it. I gave him the source concerning Obama being a racist almost a month ago now I think. It was taken out of context and I did not check carefully enough. He questioned the impropriety of the placing of the czars in powerful positions. I did not know till today he was waiting for confirmation on that. I gave it to him today Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted September 10, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2009 Many people cannot trace back where they heard something or exactly how their opinions were formed. They may freely express their opinion without giving its source. Just because the don't give the source of their opinion shouldn't open them up to be attacked personally for having it. I'm not challenging the right to have an opinion. Anyone can post any opinion they want to post. I'm challenging the inability to substantiate and support those things that are posited as facts. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted September 10, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 10, 2009 I have located the comments by "Obama" I was searching for. When I saved those particular ones I did not check them out throughly. They appear to have been taken out of context from statements in one of his books. I should have checked them out before saying anything Doesn't change my original impression of Obama being a racist. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I think the term racist has different meanings to different people. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Neil, Neil, Neil.... Let's start with this first, Ted. I don't expect people to agree with me...but what I do look for is compassion in the face of disagreement. IOWs, if you disagree with me, I expect to see some compassion....What make you different from Shane, Shane has shown compassion...I don't see that from you...IOWs, by this definition, you a can be concidered a wingnut. You ought to fit well with some here.... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGuy Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 NeilD The objection I have to the current health plan is that if you change jobs you have to join the public health care plan. No choise there. If you change health care plans the only one you can join is the public health care plan. That is RAMMING health care down our throats. It means if you like your health care plan you can never leave your current employment or you are forced into the public plan. They say 8 percent taxes for employors who do not have a health care plan but I assure you that will be increased when they find out that is not enough. And I promise you the co pays will will a lot higher than we pay currently under the current health care plan. Now they say they want to put all the poor making under 29400 dollars under medicare. That plan is already going bankrupt. How are they going to pay for that? I suspect congress will try to ram that plan down our throats and hope we have short memories come 2010. Oh the plan does not go into effect until 2013 after the 2012 election. That gives Obama lots of time to say. Lies all lies until he is re elected. LOL If that happens at all. Quote Riverside CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Neil, Neil, Neil.... Originally Posted By: Neil Let's start with this first, Ted. I don't expect people to agree with me...but what I do look for is compassion in the face of disagreement. IOWs, if you disagree with me, I expect to see some compassion....What make you different from Shane, Shane has shown compassion...I don't see that from you...IOWs, by this definition, you a can be concidered a wingnut. You ought to fit well with some here.... Compassion, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps you need a good book to expand your horizons a bit...like The 5 Love Languages. Perhaps, you'll learn that compassion, like love, can be expressed in so many different ways, but it can't be demanded - contrary to what you've just expressed above. You'll also likely learn that you can't see with your eyes closed...yet instead of opening them, it's much, much easier to don the robes of self-righteousness, point fingers, call names. Standard protocol, it appears, for left sympathizers who can't deal with conservative inquiry/response. Originally Posted By: Neil The reason that you dont see people like Bravus, or Tom or Lazarus or Liz or CoAspen or others who have great compassion and different ideas, is because of what you did here....you have used the term "moonbat" in the derogatory sense. After a few hundred times, ANYONE would get tired of that and moves on...That's why you don't see those people here very often, if at all. For many, this is simply abuse. It is not in their family culture, nor thier social network...Apparently, it is not foriegn to your social network. My, my - you have gone to such an extreme. I don't think you even completed that first thought, Neil. Did you mean I don't see them here in this forum? Well, Tom, Lazarus, and CoAspen show up often enough on my screen in the various threads - even in this forum's palette of conversational interests. They don't seem too deterred by some of the rough-and-tumble that goes on here. Moreover, I don't think my mere presence or my word choices shoo them away from this or any other forum at ClubAdventist. Did you mean that I'm on their "ignore" feature? Their choice. Their loss if true. Doesn't bother me a bit. Did you mean they haven't included me on their "buddy list"? I'm not missing any sleep over that, Neil. If, on the other hand, you're crying because of the use of the word "moonbat" to describe the tactics of using overly emotional and pretentious premises and arguments (such as those you have made about myself and Bonnie on this thread) - and linked you to that - go cry a river, my brother. To borrow your exact phraseology you posted above - I never said, "You are a moonbat". I described your tactics as being what moonbats do (and they do it quite instinctively, I might add). You phrase your little remarks to leave your target the choice between accepting a label or accepting your definition of the argument. Then when the angry response comes, you sit back like ol' Calvin on your avatar and protest that you didn't call them (label). And like Calvin, you are so very often simply screaming because you got caught at it again, and think the mountain of protest will somehow shame your recipient - but like ol' Calvin, you only end up looking twice the worse for it. Well, brother, your little trade got handed back to you in spades, and you respond with crying and the actual name-calling. "Wingnut" is equally insulting, carrying its derogatory statement...or didn't you know that? I guess you were never taught that two wrongs never made a right? If you found what I wrote to be in disagreement with your opinions, then I guess there should have flowed the compassion you are so well-known for, Neil - not the name-calling. Guess you're not even up to the standards you demand for others. By the way, you might want to recheck your reference to Bravus and myself. Seems he has an appreciation for the compassion I show when dealing with the equally seismic differences found on the Origins forum. I am as compassionate or as abrasive as people want me to be. Bravus responds with respect and honest thought - gets compassion. You respond with abrasiveness, condescending paintings, and a general lack of respect for other's thought processes - and you get, well, what you ought to expect for a bully's attitude. The rest of your post - I dismiss as simple collection of the usual HuffPo/MoveOn/DailyKos talking points that have everything to do with irrelevance and nothing to do with real, practical thinking today's issues call for, particularly the education of our youth. After all, those three replaced ABC, NBC, and CBS as the pre-eminent information/media outlets quite some time ago, as far as ol' Soros is concerned. He gets much more bang for the buck investing his money in those sites... Rolling on... Amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 NeilD The objection I have to the current health plan is that if you change jobs you have to join the public health care plan. No choise there. If you change health care plans the only one you can join is the public health care plan. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Quote: I have located the comments by "Obama" I was searching for.When I saved those particular ones I did not check them out throughly. They appear to have been taken out of context from statements in one of his books. I should have checked them out before saying anything Doesn't change my original impression of Obama being a racist. Not exactly sure what your emphasis is for. As I answered that about a month ago what would you like me to do. I believe Obama is a racist,the comments credited to him were taken out of context. I said so a month ago What I said was not throughly checked out. I believe Obama is a racist pure and simple,regardless of the quotes I should have checked out. A person that is not racist himself cannot surround himself with people like Wright for 20 years and not have common ground. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Quote: Let's start with this first, Ted. I don't expect people to agree with me...but what I do look for is compassion in the face of disagreement. IOWs, if you disagree with me, I expect to see some compassion....What make you different from Shane, Shane has shown compassion...I don't see that from you...IOWs, by this definition, you a can be concidered a wingnut. You ought to fit well with some here.... Ted,you may have to revise your understanding of compassion. My dictionary says compassion is.A sympathetic emotion created by the misfortunes of others,accompanied by a desire to help,pity,mercy Compassion, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps you need a good book to expand your horizons a bit...like The 5 Love Languages. Perhaps, you'll learn that compassion, like love, can be expressed in so many different ways, but it can't be demanded - contrary to what you've just expressed above. You'll also likely learn that you can't see with your eyes closed...yet instead of opening them, it's much, much easier to don the robes of self-righteousness, point fingers, call names. Standard protocol, it appears, for left sympathizers who can't deal with conservative inquiry/response. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Quote: A person that is not racist himself cannot surround himself with people like Wright for 20 years and not have common ground. Excellent point Bonnie. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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