How much of Scripture is inspired?

[oldsailor29]

OS, I think you may need to sharpen your crayon after a statement like that.

I made two statements RH. To which one do you refer? you are probably right, because I was trying to remember the title of that book by C. S. Lewis, about a bus load of people from hell going to heaven for a short visit. Does anyone remember that Book?

Also, I remember an old Country song about some guy who went insane after his wife left him, and he was institutionalized, and used crayons to write stuff with, and I guess to color pictures. Anybody else remember that one? Hang on a sec here. I think I found that one. the crayons song

[Guest]

That song was kinda funny. But I've never read any C.S. Lewis.

[Dr. Rich]

Whada mean those songs were funny? Not to me-I was goin' thru a divorce at the time these songs came out and they made sense to me then. I fully understand what he was singing about. But then there is that old song about 'thank God and Grayhound--she's gone'--and now I understand that too.

[Guest]

I only listened to the first one. I can only take so much country music.

[Guest]

I like the "Preacher and the Bear" by Jerry Reid.

[Guest]

And "Amos Moses" by Jerry Reid.

[Dr. Rich]

yep--me and my guitar tried to copy him way back then.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

OS, I think you may need to sharpen your crayon after a statement like that.

I made two statements RH. To which one do you refer? you are probably right, because I was trying to remember the title of that book by C. S. Lewis, about a bus load of people from hell going to heaven for a short visit. Does anyone remember that Book?

Also, I remember an old Country song about some guy who went insane after his wife left him, and he was institutionalized, and used crayons to write stuff with, and I guess to color pictures. Anybody else remember that one? Hang on a sec here. I think I found that one. the crayons song

The Great Divorce

A very powerful book!!!! Short stories on why people are lost. It points out some of our more subtle sins but what can keep us out of heaven. Someone who helps him understand was him meeting a theologian who was a universalist, yet he was able to apply many of the principles but with free will still have room to reject universalism.

If you want to know what you are doing that will keep you away from Jesus and bring you to hell, read that book.

[oldsailor29]

The Great Divorce

A very powerful book!!!! Short stories on why people are lost. It points out some of our more subtle sins but what can keep us out of heaven. Someone who helps him understand was him meeting a theologian who was a universalist, yet he was able to apply many of the principles but with free will still have room to reject universalism.

If you want to know what you are doing that will keep you away from Jesus and bring you to hell, read that book.

Yes. That is the book. I read it aloud to my wife one Sabbath afternoon. I didn't see it as short stories though. But while I have great respect for Lewis, as a true intellectual giant, I think his presuppositions keep him inside the box on universalism. I must read that book again.

[oldsailor29]

Whada mean those songs were funny? Not to me-I was goin' thru a divorce at the time these songs came out and they made sense to me then. I fully understand what he was singing about. But then there is that old song about 'thank God and Grayhound--she's gone'--and now I understand that too.

Fret not Dr. Rich. I think RH was trying to put me down, not the song. He has already said I needed to sharpen my crayon. He just couldn't think of a better way to do it this time. Maybe he will think of something better, eventually. And then he went on to put himself down by saying that he never read C. S. Lewis. People who haven't read Lewis should never admit it. Ellen White said we should try to become intellectual giants. As long as people ignore the writings of intellectual giants, they will never rise above average.

Anyway, speaking of Jerry Reed and Divorce songs, I had to think of, "She Got The Goldmine, I Got The Shaft." Oh, and he did pick that guitar in a very unique way.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: Kevin H

The Great Divorce

A very powerful book!!!! Short stories on why people are lost. It points out some of our more subtle sins but what can keep us out of heaven. Someone who helps him understand was him meeting a theologian who was a universalist, yet he was able to apply many of the principles but with free will still have room to reject universalism.

If you want to know what you are doing that will keep you away from Jesus and bring you to hell, read that book.

Yes. That is the book. I read it aloud to my wife one Sabbath afternoon. I didn't see it as short stories though. But while I have great respect for Lewis, as a true intellectual giant, I think his presuppositions keep him inside the box on universalism. I must read that book again.

Well in The Last Battle the end of Narnia has creatures one of two choices, and in the Great Divorce while he shows being impressed with that theologian who was a universalist, the whole theam of the book is while God can save all sinners and they would be welcome in heaven, that there are things they choose in their lives that keep them out.

[oldsailor29]

The Great Divorce

A very powerful book!!!! Short stories on why people are lost. It points out some of our more subtle sins but what can keep us out of heaven. Someone who helps him understand was him meeting a theologian who was a universalist, yet he was able to apply many of the principles, but with free will, still have room to reject universalism. The whole theme of the book is while God can save all sinners and they would be welcome in heaven, that there are things they choose in their lives that keep them out.

Lewis and others who are against universalism believe all people are equally apt to choose right over wrong. I don't believe this is true. I believe some people are prone to evil, and some are more prone than others. Several scriptures tell us that God gives us our faith. Going way back to origins, I have to believe Lucifer was more prone to sin than Gabriel. I don't believe it was just pure chance, that Gabriel chose right and Lucifer chose wrong. There was some difference in the way they were created. I guess this means that sin is ultimately God's fault. And this agrees with our belief in the sovereignty of God. Isa. 45:7 actually quotes God saying He created evil.

There is a lot we do not understand, and I believe one of those things is freedom of choice. We know that we do choose, but do we know why? Why do some have faith and others not? I don't think we are all the same, and have equal footings from which to choose. But I do believe that after the great controversy is over, and everyone has seen the ultimate evil of sin, that God will give everyone the faith they need in order to make the right choices.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Whada mean those songs were funny? Not to me-I was goin' thru a divorce at the time these songs came out and they made sense to me then. I fully understand what he was singing about. But then there is that old song about 'thank God and Grayhound--she's gone'--and now I understand that too.

Fret not Dr. Rich. I think RH was trying to put me down, not the song. He has already said I needed to sharpen my crayon. He just couldn't think of a better way to do it this time. Maybe he will think of something better, eventually. And then he went on to put himself down by saying that he never read C. S. Lewis. People who haven't read Lewis should never admit it. Ellen White said we should try to become intellectual giants. As long as people ignore the writings of intellectual giants, they will never rise above average.

Anyway, speaking of Jerry Reed and Divorce songs, I had to think of, "She Got The Goldmine, I Got The Shaft." Oh, and he did pick that guitar in a very unique way.

No I wasn't trying to put you down oldsailor. And I don't think I put myself down by saying I haven't read C.S. Lewis. As a matter of fact I'm proud that I haven't, and never will.

Even when I was reading fiction, I didn't read made up nonsense about Heaven and hell. And now I don't have time for fiction at all. There are too many intellectual giants who write the truth for that. Ellen White has some things to say about wasting our time reading fiction.

[Kevin H]

The Great Divorce is very similar to Pilgrams Progress; It is a story that teaches us truths about the journey to heaven. It in a story of people from hell visiting heaven and invited to come into heaven show why they don't go.

It is NOT a study in hell or heaven. It is a story about us on earth and attidudes that we are developing here and now that Lewis is warining us that if we allow it to continue no matter how welcome we are to enter heaven we will not want to be there.

It is an excellent book to read and say "Where do I fit in here? What attitudes am I developing in my relationship with God and others which is pulling me away from Jesus?" "What idols am I cherishing in my heart?"

In "The Great Divorce" Lewis points out the more subtil ways Satan is luring us away from Christ and the more secret sins, and the more acceptable sins we are prone to developing in our lives.

As for literal lessons about heaven and hell Lewis closes with--I don't think I have the exact words at the end but something like "Don't look for more in a vision or dream than a vision or dream are meant to convey." Which is also good advise for dealing with those who criticize Mrs. White.

Once again Lewis is not talking about heaven and hell but what is developing hell in us, right now, today, and what can keep us out of heaven. Mrs. White talks about the importance of self examination. The Investigative Judgement is how we are today able to study the Bible like never before and also our own self examination, and "The Great Divorce" is a powerful book in helping us with our self examination. If we read it in Lewis today, we may not have to read it about a thousand years or so from now in the mighty paramic of the sky at the end of time from outside the city.

Also, it is good to know what the word fiction meant to Mrs. White when she made those comments. It is interesting that she was part of a movement, including Herman Melvell and Nathanael Hathorne,and other literary figures who were giving the same warnings about fiction. Mrs. White said we should not read fiction like "Uncle Tom's Cabin" (a true story, but written very sensational and was causing a lot of pain and prejudice to southerners under the painful time of reconstruction, she saw it useful to end slavery but now that it served it's purpose it was causing too much pain) but to read true stories like "Pilgram's Progress" The Great Divorce is a true story like Pilgram's progress, and if any of us are lost we can read a movie preview of upcoming attractions of what we will see in that great paramama in the sky (or we might decide that we want to skip that movie and be inside the city)

[Guest]

but to read true stories like "Pilgram's Progress" The Great Divorce is a true story like Pilgram's progress,

These are not true stories. Although Pilgrim's Progress shows what it is truly like traveling the road to heaven, it is not a true story. It is fiction. It is uplifting fiction though, and good reading. Ellen white approved of Pilgrim's Progress.

[oldsailor29]

No I wasn't trying to put you down oldsailor. And I don't think I put myself down by saying I haven't read C.S. Lewis. As a matter of fact I'm proud that I haven't, and never will.

Even when I was reading fiction, I didn't read made up nonsense about Heaven and hell. And now I don't have time for fiction at all. There are too many intellectual giants who write the truth for that. Ellen White has some things to say about wasting our time reading fiction.

Ok RH, if you say so, but I cannot imagine anyone would think "I Don't Remember Loving You" was funny, unless they were smoking grass. lol Back in the '70s Red Sovine released a few tear jerkers. I was a DeeJay then, and i was telling some of my friends about a song he did called "Teddy Bear." My problem was that I had smoked some weed before I started, and the results were the song, instead of being a tearjerker, became very funny to me. I was laughing so hard, I almost didn't make it through it. I thought you might find it funny too, so here's the link

Teddy Bear

Ellen White was referring to the so called "Dime Novels." They were the forerunners of soap operas. And the so called Illustrated Current News type of paper, a forerunner of our yellow journalism. This is the problem people have when they try to attach current meanings to words as they were used more than 50 years ago.

And when it comes to truth, who knows? Present truth can be revealed to the uneducated as well as to the intellectual giants. But I don't think absolute and ultimate truth is revealed to anybody. Want truth? Have faith in what Jesus Said, and the Holy Spirit will reveal precious gems of present truth to you, personally.

[Woody]

Quote:

No I wasn't trying to put you down oldsailor. And I don't think I put myself down by saying I haven't read C.S. Lewis. As a matter of fact I'm proud that I haven't, and never will.

Even when I was reading fiction, I didn't read made up nonsense about Heaven and hell. And now I don't have time for fiction at all. There are too many intellectual giants who write the truth for that. Ellen White has some things to say about wasting our time reading fiction.

I studied C.S.Lewis at Loma Linda University for one of my religion classes. It takes a great mind ... but one can be blessed by him.

Richard ... do you watch TV ?

[Guest]

Only on Sunday when the Panthers play. And sometimes Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity. But no TV shows like I used to.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

No I wasn't trying to put you down oldsailor. And I don't think I put myself down by saying I haven't read C.S. Lewis. As a matter of fact I'm proud that I haven't, and never will.

Even when I was reading fiction, I didn't read made up nonsense about Heaven and hell. And now I don't have time for fiction at all. There are too many intellectual giants who write the truth for that. Ellen White has some things to say about wasting our time reading fiction.

Ok RH, if you say so, but I cannot imagine anyone would think "I Don't Remember Loving You" was funny, unless they were smoking grass. lol Back in the '70s Red Sovine released a few tear jerkers. I was a DeeJay then, and i was telling some of my friends about a song he did called "Teddy Bear." My problem was that I had smoked some weed before I started, and the results were the song, instead of being a tearjerker, became very funny to me. I was laughing so hard, I almost didn't make it through it. I thought you might find it funny too, so here's the link

Teddy Bear

Ellen White was referring to the so called "Dime Novels." They were the forerunners of soap operas. And the so called Illustrated Current News type of paper, a forerunner of our yellow journalism. This is the problem people have when they try to attach current meanings to words as they were used more than 50 years ago.

And when it comes to truth, who knows? Present truth can be revealed to the uneducated as well as to the intellectual giants. But I don't think absolute and ultimate truth is revealed to anybody. Want truth? Have faith in what Jesus Said, and the Holy Spirit will reveal precious gems of present truth to you, personally.

I have smoked my share of pot in the past, but don't do it anymore. And yes I've heard Teddy Bear. Fiction simply means not true. And that's all it meant in her day too. The definition hasn't changed.

[Woody]

Only on Sunday when the Panthers play. And sometimes Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity. But no TV shows like I used to.

Come on ... don't you watch Survivor?

[Guest]

No

[Woody]

To bad. Your missin' great fun. It's my favorite show. Lots of good strategy that goes on. Right now they have a real big manipulator who appears to be winning. Lots of good spiritual lessons that can be observed. (In a fictional sense)

Of course we know that Jesus had great skills in the use of fiction.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

oh c'mon. Survivors is NOT a spiritual program! It's for entertainment..

[Guest]

oh c'mon. Survivors is NOT a spiritual program! It's for entertainment..

That's right Pam.

[Woody]

oh c'mon. Survivors is NOT a spiritual program! It's for entertainment..

Whoops .. (Neck being turned around from side to side)

I didn't read where anyone said it was.

Did the post vanish into cyberspace?

What I did say is that spiritual lessons could be learned. How do we learn ? In real life situations. The character of these people is being tested. Sometimes the worst is being seen. Sometimes ... Christian principles are shown. Good Lessons. But spiritual lessons don't always have to be learned from specific "spiritual programming".