How much of Scripture is inspired?

[John317]

The author of Adventism for a New Generation. He's an SDA pastor and author named Steve Daily. I believe you can read parts of this book online.

[phkrause]

I find John that most Jewish/Adventist pastors understand this more than others.

pk

[John317]

Yes, you are right. One such Jewish SDA pastor who wrote on it was F. C. Gilbert. Have you heard of him or read any of his books, Practical Lessons and Messiah In His Sanctuary?

For pictures and info, see: http://adventisthistory.wordpress.com/2008/10/26/f-c-gilbert/

[Guest]

A New Ecumenism. The book castigates the Adventist church for its opposition to ecumenism, saying that "there is a new ecumenism sweeping through much of the Christian church today, that Adventism cannot afford to ignore." This is not the ecumenism of the World Council of Churches, with its institutional and liberal political agenda.

Instead, the "new ecumenism" is identified with the charismatic movement. This Adventist author embraces the charismatic movement not only because of its wonderful work of "intercessory prayer" in cities and communities, but also because of its charismatic worship style: "My thinking about worship was transformed several years ago

when I attended the Anaheim Vineyard Fellowship. I was dumbfounded by what I saw. Thousands of people worshipping God with a passion that I had never witnessed in any other church. Some were standing, some were lifting up their arms, others were clapping, some were sitting quietly in prayer or meditation, a few were jumping, and several were kneeling, but they all seemed to be actively worshipping God. . . . Since that day, I have returned to the Vineyard many times for my own spiritual nourishment and have longed to see the same kind of worship emerge in Adventism. God's last people will be people who find worship to be the most exciting and meaningful experience in life."

[Guest]

Motivation for Ecumenism. Notice what he seeks to gain by this new ecumenism identified with the charismatic movement: "If we were to renounce our past sectarian mentality and embrace our communities by using our sanctuaries for non-denominational Sunday services, people would think very differently about our schools and churches. We

would experience a dialogue with non-Adventist Christians that would not only benefit us but would open many non-Adventist minds to the value and meaning of the Sabbath.

It may be that God raised us up as a people for such a time as this."

Our author recognizes that the "spiritual ecumenicity" he is calling for will require Adventists to "give up their own identities." But he does not seem to mind, since the "intercessory prayer and a shared love for their cities and communities" are more important than our doctrinal distinctives. He is fully aware of the significance of what he is advocating: "I believe that the consequences of this decision [alliance with the charismatic renewal movement for "intercessory prayer"] will determine the future course of Adventism to a great

degree."

But he explains that the kind of reformation he is calling for is warranted because Adventist eschatology, which warns against unbiblical alliances, "has been built on an unsound foundation, and that it has ultimately done us more harm than good." In his opinion,

Adventism's remnant theology, which is "more firmly ingrained in the Adventist psyche because of Ellen White's powerful endorsement," leads to "ethnocentrism," "xenophobia," and "paranoia."

Consequently, he calls upon the church to outgrow the vice of isolationism and parochial Christianity and embrace the virtues of an inclusive Christianity which will respond to the needs of our cities and communities. Although he admits that it is "difficult for people who were born and raised believing that they were God's Remnant Church, God's special chosen people, to embrace an ecumenical spirit of any kind," he proceeds to suggest that we must "stop thinking just of ourselves as 'God's chosen people' and start recognizing the existence and ministry of 'God's chosen peoples.' It is a call to move from an ethnocentric remnant theology to a spirit of religious affirmation which acknowledges that the 'kingdom of God on earth' transcends every religious movement of humankind, and rejoices that the future kingdom will include 'many mansions'."

[John317]

I understand, but be careful, Pipim himself has appologized to at least one of those who he has criticized saying that he did not want to say those things but due to some church politics he had to say it or not get his book published,

Do you think there is any way you can find out what part of the book this has reference to and also verify that Pipim said this? The claim is an indictment against the integrity of the book itself and begs the question why anyone would trust the scholarship of someone who would say what Pipim is supposed to have said.

It makes it sound like Pipim and the publisher are dishonest, the latter for requiring that something unsubstantiated should be written, and the former for writing something that he neither believed nor wanted to say but only wrote in order to get the book published.

[Guest]

Some Suggested Strategies. Believing that it is "churches and movements that are willing to lose their lives, or give up their own identities, for the kingdom of God that will find their lives and be used by God to bring the greatest blessings to humanity," he suggests some "practical things" Adventists can do "to contribute to this goal."

Among these are:

"1. We can cease to think or speak of ourselves as the remnant church and see ourselves as a part of God's larger remnant.

2. We can take advantage of the special opportunity we have to attend other churches (since they meet on a different day) to befriend them, learn from them, share with them, and affirm the good things we see in them.

3. Each of us can make a special effort to maintain active membership in at least one non-Adventist community service organization to combat our natural tendency to isolationism.

4. We can involve ourselves in interdenominational bible study and/or [charismatic] intercessory prayer groups to broaden our own spiritual perspectives.

5. We can come to see Christ, not as the possession of Adventism or even of Christianity, but as the universal God and Saviour He is. Such a Christ is much more appealing to non-Christians than the Christ of parochial Christianity."

[phkrause]

No John I have never heard of him. The link you posted was pretty interesting, and not only that he died the year I was born! I was thinking of my old pastor at the Times Square Center, back in NY, Dr JM Hoffman, and also Pastor Herb Silver, Pastor Sandy Roseman, and Pastor Alex Schlussler, who pastors two churches in Florida. One is a messianic SDA congregation. Here is a link to that church: http://www.btvfl.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=4781aeadb3a4fd81ffdfb794fe32ad31

pk

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Kevin H

I understand, but be careful, Pipim himself has appologized to at least one of those who he has criticized saying that he did not want to say those things but due to some church politics he had to say it or not get his book published,

Do you think there is any way you can find out what part of the book this has reference to and also verify that Pipim said this?

It makes it sound like Pipim and the publisher are dishonest, the latter for requiring that something unsubstantiated should be written, and the former for writing something that he neither believed nor wanted to say but only wrote in order to get the book published.

Yes, I would like to see that also.

[Guest]

Hermeneutical Foundation. Since the author rightly recognizes that "theology is dependent on one's hermeneutical approach to scripture," it stands to reason that the theological views expressed in Adventism for a New Generation are also established on its

author's "dynamic," "developmental," and "Christ-centered view of inspiration."

He develops this new approach to the Scriptures because he believes that "the Seventh-day Adventist church has never fully outgrown the Fundamentalist view of Inspiration that it grew up with in the nineteenth century"--a view of inspiration he characterizes as "a literal, rigid, propositional, or 'proof text' interpretation of Scripture."

In making the above assertion, he is simply singing the popular refrain from the chorus of "New Generation" scholars who argue unjustifiably that the plain reading of Scripture historically adopted by Seventh-day Adventists (the "proof text method," to use the

overworked expression) is somehow defective. He admits that the new views regarding biblical authority and interpretation being circulated by the "New Generation" scholars are the result of "a broader understanding of the nature of inspiration that has come through Adventism's exposure to higher education and the application of the historical-critical method to both Scripture and the writings of Ellen White."

[Gerr]

The author of Adventism for a New Generation. He's an SDA pastor and author named Steve Daily. I believe you can read parts of this book online.

And he is the one saying we should reconsider the church stand on premarital sex because the young people

cannot control their hormones? Or something to that effect?

[John317]

Terrific!! Thanks for that info and that link. Great to see.

[Gerr]

Some Suggested Strategies. Believing that it is "churches and movements that are willing to lose their lives, or give up their own identities, for the kingdom of God that will find their lives and be used by God to bring the greatest blessings to humanity," he suggests some "practical things" Adventists can do "to contribute to this goal."

Among these are:

"1. We can cease to think or speak of ourselves as the remnant church and see ourselves as a part of God's larger remnant.

2. We can take advantage of the special opportunity we have to attend other churches (since they meet on a different day) to befriend them, learn from them, share with them, and affirm the good things we see in them.

3. Each of us can make a special effort to maintain active membership in at least one non-Adventist community service organization to combat our natural tendency to isolationism.

4. We can involve ourselves in interdenominational bible study and/or [charismatic] intercessory prayer groups to broaden our own spiritual perspectives.

5. We can come to see Christ, not as the possession of Adventism or even of Christianity, but as the universal God and Saviour He is. Such a Christ is much more appealing to non-Christians than the Christ of parochial Christianity."

I can't quibble with any of these recommendations.

[phkrause]

You are welcomed. Have a great Sabbath John.

pk

[Guest]

Reformation or Deformation? Readers should clearly understand that the above author is not alone in holding this vision of an Adventism for a New Generation. He is one of the few who, instead of spreading his views quietly, has had the courage to publicize them in print.

One influential Adventist educator, in endorsing the book, states that it is "one of those books that demand attention and thought. . . . I recommend this book to pastors, educators and

thought leaders who want a thorough analysis of what 'might be' if we fully commit our mission to the work of God." Besides the endorsers of this work, a number of other Adventist thought-leaders, scholars,

and church administrators are also demanding revisions in our historic Adventist doctrines to make them "more relevant to this generation."

While such ideas are prevalent, the most vocal proponents (at least those currently in denominational employment) seldom publish their revisionist views. Thus the theological views expressed in Adventism for a New Generation must be seen as only the tip of a theological iceberg.

But are the calls for reformation within Adventism really designed to restore the biblical truths held by our pioneers? Are the different approaches to Scripture, and the different versions of Adventism they spawn, suggestive of a return to authentic Seventh-day Adventism (if we can talk about "authentic" Adventism at all), or are these aberrations of Adventism and hence, evidence of an identity crisis?

What really does it mean when today we hear about renewal and intercessory prayer, wonderful works for our "cities and communities," replacing the vice of ethnocentric remnant theology with the virtues of "God's larger remnant"? Are the disdain for the works of our pioneers, the giving up of the pillars of our faith, and the desire to align our church with the charismatic movement indications of real reformation within the church? Or are they, rather, a departure from the faith--a distortion of the biblical truths of Adventism?

Could the major cracks we see in the theological foundation of our faith be signs of an impending crisis? Is it possible that "books of a new order"--the flurry of books and articles being published, endorsed, and distributed--in our day are vital warnings of an end-time deception--a deception that will closely parallel the "alpha" that took place in the days of Ellen White?

[Steve Billiter]

http://www.spectrummagazine.org/files/archive/archive21-25/24-1mcrae.pdf

Adventism for a New Generation. By Steve Daily He re-defines Adventist pillars of faith. From what I read so far this book is suitable for lighting fires only, not to be actually read.

BTW, I don't endorse the liberal magazine Spectrum, but it was convenient to go there to review the book.

[oldsailor29]

Jesus is the pillar of my faith. My faith in Him prevents me from falling victim to the Alpha and Omega deceptions.

[Gerr]

Quote:

BTW, I don't endorse the liberal magazine Spectrum, but it was convenient to go there to review the book.

I stopped subscribing to Spectrum almost 30 yrs ago; too many leftwing articles in it.

[Guest]

Amen!!

[Twilight]

A New Morality.

On premarital sex and masturbation, this author wants to free the new generation of Adventists from "our Victorian heritage, which has been well preserved through the work of Ellen White. Most Adventists are not aware of what bizarre and extreme views of sexuality were commonly held by our nineteenth century ancestors. Books like Messages to Young People have served to perpetuate such baggage throughout much of the twentieth century as well. . . . I had a senior Bible teacher in academy in the 1970s who held similar

views, teaching us (much to our amusement) that any physical contact with the opposite sex before marriage was wrong. Our Victorian heritage may be greater than we think."

He continues: "Many Adventists have a 'masturbation-phobia' as a result of Ellen White's extreme pronouncements about the practice. Her teaching on this topic was rooted in a nineteenth century 'vital force' physiology which has no credibility in the medical community

today, and stands in stark contrast to the Bible's silence concerning masturbation. A balanced Christian approach to sexual self-stimulation sees it as a potentially healthy form of sexual

discovery, exploration and awareness. It can even be a healthy equalizing force in marriages where partners have significantly different amounts of sex drive."

"Finally," he concludes, "the question of premarital sex is an important one. The biblical principle that sexual intercourse be reserved for a monogamous marital relationship (Gen. 2:24) is increasingly being viewed as obsolete or impractical by young Christians. One reason for this has been the church's tendency to address this issue in an 'all or nothing' context. Sexuality, like spirituality, communication, or any other aspect of a relationship, must develop and mature over time. Christian couples who have dated for a significant period need to honestly discuss their convictions and sexual boundaries. Sexual exploration and experimentation before marriage should respect these boundaries; we should never put a

partner in the position of feeling guilty or sinful. We need to remember that God created sex to be an enjoyable, pleasurable activity."

Young unmarried Christians must set their own boundaries in their sexual conduct. "In cases where [unmarried] couples do have intercourse before marriage, and wish to break this behavior pattern, I often recommend an exercise called 'sexual pleasuring' that is commonly prescribed in sexual therapy for impotence and premature ejaculation. These [unmarried] couples need to realize that there is a wide range of sexual activities that can be tremendously pleasurable and satisfying that do not involve sexual intercourse, and its accompanying risks.

Christian young people in general need to know their individual boundaries . . . from their own study of scripture, and truly enjoy themselves in a guilt-free, balanced manner within those boundaries. Those who criticize such young people for not living up to their standards have no scriptural basis for their criticisms and no right to make themselves moral policemen for other Christians."

If I have ever heard the voice of satan, it is here...

[Twilight]

The author of Adventism for a New Generation. He's an SDA pastor and author named Steve Daily. I believe you can read parts of this book online.

Maybe it should be Babylon for a New Generation?

If this is the guy advocating masturbation to the youth...

[olger]

Daily is a well-known "reinterpreter" of Advent Movement truth. He is also deeply wrong about his ideas of sexuality. Deeply wrong.

g

[Guest]

Daily is a well-known "reinterpreter" of Advent Movement truth. He is also deeply wrong about his ideas of sexuality. Deeply wrong.

g

I'll say.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

A New Morality.

On premarital sex and masturbation, this author wants to free the new generation of Adventists from "our Victorian heritage, which has been well preserved through the work of Ellen White. Most Adventists are not aware of what bizarre and extreme views of sexuality were commonly held by our nineteenth century ancestors. Books like Messages to Young People have served to perpetuate such baggage throughout much of the twentieth century as well. . . . I had a senior Bible teacher in academy in the 1970s who held similar

views, teaching us (much to our amusement) that any physical contact with the opposite sex before marriage was wrong. Our Victorian heritage may be greater than we think."

He continues: "Many Adventists have a 'masturbation-phobia' as a result of Ellen White's extreme pronouncements about the practice. Her teaching on this topic was rooted in a nineteenth century 'vital force' physiology which has no credibility in the medical community

today, and stands in stark contrast to the Bible's silence concerning masturbation. A balanced Christian approach to sexual self-stimulation sees it as a potentially healthy form of sexual

discovery, exploration and awareness. It can even be a healthy equalizing force in marriages where partners have significantly different amounts of sex drive."

"Finally," he concludes, "the question of premarital sex is an important one. The biblical principle that sexual intercourse be reserved for a monogamous marital relationship (Gen. 2:24) is increasingly being viewed as obsolete or impractical by young Christians. One reason for this has been the church's tendency to address this issue in an 'all or nothing' context. Sexuality, like spirituality, communication, or any other aspect of a relationship, must develop and mature over time. Christian couples who have dated for a significant period need to honestly discuss their convictions and sexual boundaries. Sexual exploration and experimentation before marriage should respect these boundaries; we should never put a

partner in the position of feeling guilty or sinful. We need to remember that God created sex to be an enjoyable, pleasurable activity."

Young unmarried Christians must set their own boundaries in their sexual conduct. "In cases where [unmarried] couples do have intercourse before marriage, and wish to break this behavior pattern, I often recommend an exercise called 'sexual pleasuring' that is commonly prescribed in sexual therapy for impotence and premature ejaculation. These [unmarried] couples need to realize that there is a wide range of sexual activities that can be tremendously pleasurable and satisfying that do not involve sexual intercourse, and its accompanying risks.

Christian young people in general need to know their individual boundaries . . . from their own study of scripture, and truly enjoy themselves in a guilt-free, balanced manner within those boundaries. Those who criticize such young people for not living up to their standards have no scriptural basis for their criticisms and no right to make themselves moral policemen for other Christians."

If I have ever heard the voice of satan, it is here...

Amen!!

[Woody]

Quote:

If I have ever heard the voice of satan, it is here...

Do you read your own posts before posting?