Moderators Bravus Posted February 6, 2005 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2005 I was just thinking today about our state in heaven, inspired by a cool Harry Berg painting of Adam and Eve naked and unashamed in the garden. (post-tree-of-knowledge (for us) he did a very nice job of making them very discreetly naked with carefully placed foliage etc... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) If we're restored to our Edenic state, will we be spending Eternity naked? Doesn't bother me too much - I intend to be glorified/buff! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Can you get your head around that? And what does that kind of thinking (and it's pure speculation) mean for how each of us imagines heaven? I suspect we all imagine it differently - does that mean some of us will be disappointed when we get there? Or just blown away and surprised by how much it exceeds our puny imaginations? Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 It is my understanding that we'll have heavenly garments. Isn't this the point of the parable of the wedding banquet? Clothed in His righteousness--His righteousness being so bright we'll not truly be "naked." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted February 6, 2005 Administrators Share Posted February 6, 2005 Well, like you, if I had a great, new, glorified body I wouldn't be ashamed, either... But discreetly naked sounds okay Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 As anyone who has been to a nude beach or a naturist resort will verify, when everyone is nude, nobody is any more ashamed than they are in a fully church service. i.e. you feel just as comfortable as you are today. What people really don't like being is "different". /Bevin - who enjoys the wide range of humanities body shapes here, and is sure that he will appreciate the differences in heaven also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Quote: As anyone who has been to a nude beach or a naturist resort will verify, when everyone is nude, nobody is any more ashamed than they are in a fully church service. Your post is causing this question , so I have to ask..... Have you been to .....?? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 I'll probably get crucified for saying this but ... one of the things I wondered about is why we typically interpret Christ's statement "neither marry nor are given in marriage but are as the angels in heaven" to mean there will be no genders and/or no sexual relations. How do we know what angels do? Maybe it means there will be no need for possessive pair-bondings because no one will be jealous or territorial in heaven. Maybe it means being freed from direct ties to childbearing, sexual expression of love will be free to be enjoyed by whomever wishes to share it with another, at any time (by mutual consent of course), without it being an "issue". We have NO CLUE what innocence was or would have/could have been. We know only the results of having lost it. I'm not saying it HAS to be that way in heaven but maybe it's not one size fits all, huh? Maybe there are things about life "up there" we cannot conceive because we are so riddled with sin down here that they make no sense to us whatsoever. Maybe marriage will not be needed because we won't need to "own" a person exclusively anymore to share our love. Eternity will give us time enough for companionship enough with anyone we love. It's just a thought -- don't come after me with torches all right ...? Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Thinking... that means no laundry to do... Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockey Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 I can only wonder how amazing heaven will be. I suspect being in such open contact with Him, that our brains will be flooded with a continuous stream of serotonin recycled and replenished by his power, bringing us to a state of unfathomable ecstasy at all times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Quote: Have you been to .....?? of course I have, haven't you? If not, why not? /Bevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 I agree Nico. Jesus said there was no marriage, not no sex or no children. In an infinitely long lifetime, and a safe world, marriage may well be too confining and unnecessary. /Bevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 7, 2005 Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2005 Nico: There is a minority element in Adventism that rejects the traditional view, and teaches that there either will be, or may be, marital/sexual relations in heaven. This group is divided as to whether or not children will be born from such relaltions. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 7, 2005 Author Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2005 My take on this, too, is that Jesus wasn't making a detailed doctrinal pronouncement here. Look at the context - the Pharisees try to trick him with a 'how many angels on the head of a pin' type situation: the woman who marries into the family with the extremely poor life expectancy, so that she marries each of seven brothers and has them all die on her (actually, by about the third dead husband, do you think CSI might have been on the case?) So I think he's more disposing of their sophistry than making some deep pronouncement about the Way Things Are In Heaven. I could live an eternity with no sex, I think, because it would be replaced by other peak pleasures, but I'm not sure it would be so easy without the love and companionship of my wonderful wife. One of the things I'm looking forward to is an eternity to be with her. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Quote: I can only wonder how amazing heaven will be. I suspect being in such open contact with Him, that our brains will be flooded with a continuous stream of serotonin recycled and replenished by his power, bringing us to a state of unfathomable ecstasy at all times. WOW! Sid we think a lot in common here! I can imagine we will experience quite a bit of rapture in the presence of our Divine Lover (Bridegroom to the Bride, His Church) which will thrill our whole being and cause us to pour forth spontaneous worship from our hearts. I think it is every soul's desire to be secretly raptured one way or another -- mentally, physically, spiritually, maybe all three? -- to be swept up and away by a love greater than we can fathom. And we find the greatest of Loves in Christ Jesus! I also think it will be wonderful to be able to THINK, to LEARN, to COGITATE cerebrally with CLEAR, CLEAN MINDS FREE OF ALL SIN and sin/disease's fogginess and clutter and clouds. I can't wait!!! Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Quote: I agree Nico. Jesus said there was no marriage, not no sex or no children. In an infinitely long lifetime, and a safe world, marriage may well be too confining and unnecessary. It would be a joy to be able to experience both sex and childbearing and child rearing as God intended, without time limits on our lives or sin's imperfections getting in the way ... indeed! However even if this is not the case I'm satisfied what He has planned for us is greater and more wonderful than anything we can currently imagine. Amen? Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Quote: I could live an eternity with no sex, I think, because it would be replaced by other peak pleasures, but I'm not sure it would be so easy without the love and companionship of my wonderful wife. One of the things I'm looking forward to is an eternity to be with her. Oh it definitely was not my intent to devalue people or our relationships with them at all, especially not in favor of physical pleasure. My point was that we would not have to pick and choose in our relationships. There'd be time and room enough for plenty, and no one size fits all deal. Which meant no one would force you NOT to be exclusive with your wife if that were your choice! But maybe this is just too much of my pagan/poly background creeping in. I don't care -- I'm happy with whatever God decides. If I wasn't, I'd pick somewhere else to be. I trust His judgment; it's certainly proven far wiser than my own. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Quote: However even if this is not the case I'm satisfied what He has planned for us is greater and more wonderful than anything we can currently imagine. Amen? Amen. /Bevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockey Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Quote: I also think it will be wonderful to be able to THINK, to LEARN, to COGITATE cerebrally with CLEAR, CLEAN MINDS FREE OF ALL SIN and sin/disease's fogginess and clutter and clouds. I can't wait!!! Amen to that Nico! It will be awesome to finally be able to think clearly. I think when I am there, I won't believe it. I will say "Is this real?? Am I dreaming!? What is that glorious sound?!?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormF Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Isn't being naked a state of mind, not of body? Robes of light, of righteousness, etc. are euphemisms, trying to deal with the inadequacy of human language when the subject is spiritual realities. Human social shame colors our every thought so thoroughly and heaven's realities are so far away from our understanding that the best analogies and the cleverest euphemisms become laughable, pitiful jokes when you catch an insight into what's actually being addressed here. True happiness comes when a person's full potentials are realized. Those potentialities are defined by how we're made. When we are translated into a New Heaven and a New Earth, we will leave behind all the errors and shortfalls that restrict us now. We will be remade to perfection. Then, when we are conforming to all that God intends for us, true bliss will be the resulting condition. ("bliss" -- a lousy word to express such a sublime concept; another of the failures of human words to deal with the realities of heaven ...) What will that recreated existence be and involve? Who knows? If it means that running around nude and sharing my deepest self in total connectedness, in every dimension, with every other person in the universe, endlessly, with everyone I meet -- physically, spiritually, emotionally -- if that will yield the ultimate ecstasy of truest happiness, I will and it will be so. Because God will have made me and my world (and everyone, all of us together) that way. On the other hand, if God designs us then so that gazing in motionless passion at a rock for eons on end gives ultimate ecstasy, I will and it will be so. Either way will be absolute bliss, because that's the way He made it and that's how it will be working. Whatever it is, it will not be like it is now -- all things will be new. And it will be consistent with God's intent for me, untainted by anything short of perfection. And as we live new lives complying with that, we will be expressing our innermost selves to the max and growing unlimitedly in every part of our unique, God-given potentialities. We will be simultanously everything God wants us to be and yet also growing to fulfill every potential He has for us. Our potentials will be uncapped and limitless, even as we're filling them totally and completely. It hasn't even entered into our minds yet everything He has planned for us. Parading around naked, or closed up in a cave with the rocks? Wait a minute! We're talking about the infinite, almighty God sharing a piece of infinity with us. Infinity mind you. Sit down, open your mind, and hang on tight. Regards, Norm Quote Debile fundamentum, fallit opus. - "Where there is a weak foundation, the work falls." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Quote: Robes of light, of righteousness, etc. are euphemisms, trying to deal with the inadequacy of human language when the subject is spiritual realities. Yeah, but... The robes of light are also real. This is why no one on earth can see the Lord now--His "robe" of righteousness is too bright. That's why God had to shield the eyes of His followers--that's why Saul went blind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Quote: Quote: Have you been to .....?? of course I have, haven't you? If not, why not? /Bevin Because, I will have you know, that I am a prude! And I couldn't go there, not with this body, and I would be too doggone embarrassed. And in my younger days, I would have been content to just go and watch... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.  George Bernard Shaw  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Norm, just wanted to thank you for such a rich post. I enjoyed savouring what you shared. Nico Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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