Can we pursue capitalism____

[Dr. Shane]

You seem driven to make women a foolish ignorant sex...

No, it has nothing to do with male or female. Often times one of the spouses takes care of the finances. Sometimes the husband and sometimes the wife. Dave Ramsey calls it the "nerd" and the "free spirit".

In our household, I am the nerd. My last secretary was the nerd in her household (I am currently without a secretary). Her husband didn't know anything about finances. He would bring home the check and she would give him so much spending money each week. She paid all the bills and took care of all their investments even though he earned twice as much money as she did.

Credit card companies target the "free spirit" after the "nerd" dies. That is what happens. It has nothing to do with being male of female.

[bonnie]

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I am a family of four and we spend $700/month on groceries. If a family of five can make it on $426 they need to write a book and share their secret.

What your eating habits are I have no idea. When I am careful I can feed my husband and myself along with snacks and such when the grand kids come out for 55.00 a week.I do not buy processed junk food.

I have several friends that are of the Lastidian Lutheran Church. A typical family for them runs anywhere from 12-20 children. If they had to spend as you do they could not feed their children.Which they do with out welfare help or the wife working outside the home.

No book,just careflu planning and common sense

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Many of the elderly work part-time or volunteer jobs. Many have to start working after falling victim to the blood-sucking credit card companies. Many welfare recipients work minimum wage jobs.

I don't believe you have any proof whatsoever for the accusations you throw around. Again the blood sucking credit card companies cannot force them to pay.Your saying so does not change that fact. As far as I know volunteer jobs don't pay.Many work part time jobs for a variety of reasons.

Full welfare recipients do not work full time jobs.There is a very small amount of money that can be earned and then the dollar amount is subtracted from their welfare cash allotment.

The amount a credit card company could extract from garnishing a check from a welfare recipient is so low as to be ludicrous. Full employment cannot exceed 25%. That goes down depending on outstanding obligations first.All welfare benefits would be exempt

[bonnie]

Quote:

No, it has nothing to do with male or female. Often times one of the spouses takes care of the finances. Sometimes the husband and sometimes the wife. Dave Ramsey calls it the "nerd" and the "free spirit".

Dave Ramsey again.Sorry,I don't share the hero worship and the idea that what someone like he says is always gospel

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Credit card companies target the "free spirit" after the "nerd" dies. That is what happens. It has nothing to do with being male of female.

Truly amazing. Credit card companies that can sift thru and identify and target the "free spirit" .

Is free spirit in their credit report or identifiable some other way? I have never seen that

[bonnie]

I don't really care all that much about Dave Ramsey nor do I feel the need to regurgitate everything a particular popular public figure says.

Did do a quick check on Dave Ramsey.

Seems he has made millions off of this.I don't have anything against people making money but when the money is made by finding and using specific whipping boys I get a little gun shy of their every word being gospel.

Found this interesting little piece at wikipedia .Of course he denies knowledge and as in any money making business the truth will never truly be known.

Ramsey has been criticized in financial circles for offering overly simplistic solutions to financial issues.

......The Nashville Scene has reported that Ramsey occasionally receives e-mails and letters containing the Biblical verse: "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24 KJV) Ramsey interprets such communications to be a rebuke of his own wealth and a call for poverty.[3]

In 2004, Ramsey's column was dropped from The Tennessean and four other newspapers owned by Gannett, Co. after it was discovered that the identities of those seeking help were falsified in several of his columns. A Lampo executive vice president attributed the duplications to a young former employee who was in charge of selecting and editing the column questions and answers, and said the employee has since left the group. Despite claiming to not have made the mistake himself, Ramsey accepted overall responsibility, offering refunds to the newspapers affected by the error.

[Dr. Shane]

Full welfare recipients do not work full time jobs.There is a very small amount of money that can be earned and then the dollar amount is subtracted from their welfare cash allotment.

Yes, that was the story with my mother. She always had a full-time job and her wages were always deducted from her welfare check. That doesn't provide much incentive for most to find a job, does it?

[Dr. Shane]

The amount a credit card company could extract from garnishing a check from a welfare recipient is so low as to be ludicrous.

They get money by scare tactics and it works. If it didn't work, credit card companies wouldn't issue cards to poor people. The only reason they issue them cards is because they are making money off from them.

[Dr. Shane]

Truly amazing. Credit card companies that can sift thru and identify and target the "free spirit" .

Is free spirit in their credit report or identifiable some other way? I have never seen that

They do it by fishing. They blanket out the applications. The nerds all toss the applications in the fireplace. The free spirits sign up and get caught - just like a fish biting on a worm.

[Robert]

Victim my foot.

Bonnie, you could be easily victimized by folks much more crafty than you.....

Again, I can tell from how you write that you are a very proud woman. You view your way as the right way and look down your nose at those struggling. Again, some humble pie might be just what you need....But you'll come back with some smart-butt comment....Hats off to you and your Phariseeism.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

The amount a credit card company could extract from garnishing a check from a welfare recipient is so low as to be ludicrous.

They get money by scare tactics and it works. If it didn't work, credit card companies wouldn't issue cards to poor people. The only reason they issue them cards is because they are making money off from them.

If who you consider poor has a good credit history or meets the guidelines they haven't any choice.

I don't believe as you that poor equates ignorant. Poor can equate manipulating the system,a lack of responsibility,not believing you are responsible for your continued bad decisions.

Most welfare recipients are savvy enough to know their benefits cannot be touched. So are SS recipients.That is in the print.

They are not ignorant,they can read and understand as well as you.

[Dr. Shane]

Ramsey has been criticized in financial circles for offering overly simplistic solutions to financial issues.

Dave Ramsey is hated by many in the financial industry. I was surprised that he got his show on the FOX Business Network. I am not so surprised that he is an invited guest on the morning news shows like GMA and Today. He is a champion for the little guy. A lot of financial advisers target those making a lot of money like small business owners and corporate managers. Those types are definitely in Dave's audience but so are the small guys like the restaurant waitress, the mechanic, the carpenter, the school teacher and such.

His simplistic solutions are what make him so attractable. He has a very basic philosophy: don't spend more than you make. Wow! What a concept. It drives the financial sectors wild. Don't spend more than you make and make your money before you spend it. Woe!!!! People haven't heard advice like that since grandma died.

His radio show opens like this: "Cash is king. Debt is dumb and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice."

[Dr. Shane]

I don't believe as you that poor equates ignorant.

First, I don't believe that.

Second, ignorant doesn't mean stupid. Ignorant simply means a person hasn't learned something yet. It does not mean they cannot learn. Many that have never attended a Dave Ramsey seminar or read his books are completely ignorant to the predatory tactics of credit card companies. That doesn't make them stupid, just ignorant.

I am completely ignorant about many things. I am ignorant about how thousands of phone calls travel through a single fiber optic line. I am ignorant about where a circus buys food for their animals. I am ignorant about the electrical grid in Moscow. Being ignorant doesn't mean stupid.

Third, of course there is some overlap. There are some poor that are poor and ignorant. We have people attending our churches here in South Texas that are poor but far from ignorant. I know individuals have bought a house worth $80K while earning less than $20K/year. There are some very smart and shrewd people that are living in poverty.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Bonnie, you could be easily victimized by folks much more crafty than you.....

If I do not read,make sure I understand the contract/agreement,if I charge more than I know I can pay I am a willing victim. That to me is not a victim.Like everyone at times I have not been careful enough,I learned thru the natural consequences of my behavior,not blaming others.Nor did I keep repeating same and keep blaming others for "forcing" me to become a victim.

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Again, I can tell from how you write that you are a very proud woman. You view your way as the right way and look down your nose at those struggling. Again, some humble pie might be just what you need....But you'll come back with some smart-butt comment....Hats off to you and your Phariseeism.

I am actually glad you said this I am never to sure what might be considered a personal attack. This has been my thoughts exactly concerning you and Shane.

Robert,I can tell from how you write that you are a very proud and arrogant men Both of you view your way as the right way and only way and look down your nose at those you consider ignorant. Try some humble pie Robert, some humble pie might be just what you need....But you'll come back with some smart-butt comment....Hats off to you and your judgmental attitude towards those that disagree with you. Keep helping God locate that special place in hell for those that do not automatically agree with you and Shane. Make sure it is a roomy enough place tho.I hear there are other reasons people will be there.

If making help available and having expectations that a welfare recipient can meet commitments and aid in their own betterment,that they are not ignorant and helpless is looking down my nose at someone so be it. You have failed to use show what I have said that indicates you are presenting anything close to what I have said.

I think that would probably get in the way of claiming I want mothers on prostitution and their children to go hungry. To deny needed support and to refuse to provide them with means to help themselves.

It does make for a very haughty,superior sounding christian?? attitude

[Robert]

Let me show you Christ's attitude concerning folks doing you wrong and see if your view lines up with His:

Luke 6:30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

[bonnie]

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First, I don't believe that.

Yes you do,you have said it repeatedly,the ignorant

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Second, ignorant doesn't mean stupid. Ignorant simply means a person hasn't learned something yet. It does not mean they cannot learn. Many that have never attended a Dave Ramsey seminar or read his books are completely ignorant to the predatory tactics of credit card companies. That doesn't make them stupid, just ignorant.

The predatory practise of a credit card company has no ability to harm unless of course the "poor victim" wants credit they know they can't afford,actively participates in responding and signing the agreement. They not anyone else charge more than they know they can pay back.

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I am completely ignorant about many things. I am ignorant about how thousands of phone calls travel through a single fiber optic line. I am ignorant about where a circus buys food for their animals. I am ignorant about the electrical grid in Moscow. Being ignorant doesn't mean stupid.

If and when you keep playing around with the future for yourself and children,you fail to be responsible,you blame others for not knowing the above,and you try to get what you are ignorant about to work for you,

That has another word as well

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Third, of course there is some overlap. There are some poor that are poor and ignorant. We have people attending our churches here in South Texas that are poor but far from ignorant. I know individuals have bought a house worth $80K while earning less than $20K/year. There are some very smart and shrewd people that are living in poverty.

The smart and savvy people are the ones that do not look for a villian and for someone like Shane to remove all obstacles from their paths. They do not consider themselves a victim.

Robert,just for you,

Many of us know first hand what the meaning of struggle is. What we don't know is that our struggles get to be blamed on others.

Please show me what I have written that says to you a person trying,meeting personal responsibility when the state supports them is somehow looking down at the.

Looking down on those that are struggling is to continue to claim how ignorant they are. That they are so ignorant they cannot make it or better themselves unless first they are victims and from there blame everyone else for their problems ,mistakes and deliberate acts that get them into trouble

[Robert]

... they are victims and from there blame everyone else for their problems ,mistakes and deliberate acts that get them into trouble

Like I said we live in a very evil world....Some call it a dog-eat-dog world. Everyone, to some extent, is out for himself/herself....Everyone is trying to be # 1....Everyone is self-seeking and because of iniquity folks get hurt. Why? What does Paul say?

Romans 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Oh my, Paul is blaming his failures on his sin nature....I guess you will now correct Paul?

Now the Pharisees (the holy Joes) were proud of themselves....They had the best seats...they had the money...they were self-sufficient. They were also self-deceived.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Luke 6:30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Robert,this type of response coming from you really proves nothing at all. You do not follow it.

Quote:

32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that.

34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Eve

can you indicate where I have said I expect back for money I have lent or given?

Please keep to what has been said instead off wandering off the reservation to try to prove your point.

No one said one word about giving credit for any act to anyone,period. This is the same as Shane wandering off and throwing prostitution in there as if that has been what others have stated they wanted.

Has your crystal ball shown you who I may have helped,without being asked. Has it shown you the amount of money I have given others without asking for payback?

If not perhaps it is best not to try to make the conversation appear what it is not.

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But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Never claimed or indicated I hate anyone,How about you,Robert???

Your biblical views have always lacked a great deal as far as I was concerned.Especially personal actions that resulted from that,so go ahead and post your usual,I am not responding to it

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

... they are victims and from there blame everyone else for their problems ,mistakes and deliberate acts that get them into trouble

Like I said we live in a very evil world....Some call it a dog-eat-dog world. Everyone, to some extent, is out for himself/herself....Everyone is trying to be # 1....Everyone is self-seeking and because of iniquity folks get hurt. Why? What does Paul say?

Romans 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Oh my, Paul is blaming his failures on his sin nature....I guess you will now correct Paul?

Now the Pharisees (the holy Joes) were proud of themselves....They had the best seats...they had the money...they were self-sufficient. They were also self-deceived.

LIVE IT ROBERT

[bonnie]

Let me show you Christ's attitude concerning folks doing you wrong and see if your view lines up with His:

Robert,you came into this aiming sarcasm and personal remarks/attacks against me. I did not seek you out. You believe I am in the wrong and that I am snotty,arrogant,proud and apparently cruel towards those with less than I.

How is your personal attitude and conduct towards me reflected in Christ's attitude? No amount of scripture you post makes your attitude better when you use it to condemn others or to excuse your own.

You can keep posting this and let others answer you.You can keep torturing scripture to have it reflect that you are exempt as much as possible.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Like I said we live in a very evil world....Some call it a dog-eat-dog world. Everyone, to some extent, is out for himself/herself....Everyone is trying to be # 1....Everyone is self-seeking and because of iniquity folks get hurt. Why? What does Paul say?

Romans 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Oh my, Paul is blaming his failures on his sin nature....I guess you will now correct Paul?

Now the Pharisees (the holy Joes) were proud of themselves....They had the best seats...they had the money...they were self-sufficient. They were also self-deceived.

[/quote']

LIVE IT ROBERT

You missed the point...Paul was blaming his nature....just like folks blame other folks when they are partially responsible....So your argument is with Paul!

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Let me show you Christ's attitude concerning folks doing you wrong and see if your view lines up with His:

Robert,you came into this aiming sarcasm and personal remarks/attacks against me. I did not seek you out. You believe ....

But your views do not line up with Luke....You are all worried that someone might get over on you, Luke is not so self-concerned....You are....

[Robert]

Robert,you came into this aiming sarcasm and personal remarks/attacks against me. I did not seek you out. You believe I am in the wrong and that I am snotty,arrogant,proud and apparently cruel towards those with less than I.

How is your personal attitude and conduct towards me reflected in Christ's attitude? No amount of scripture you post makes your attitude better when you use it to condemn others or to excuse your own.

You can keep posting this and let others answer you.You can keep torturing scripture to have it reflect that you are exempt as much as possible.

I know, I know...you are the victim!

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

First, I don't believe that.

Yes you do,you have said it repeatedly...

When I say "the poor, ignorant, gullible and elderly" I am talking about four different groups. Of course there is overlap but those are four different groups.

[bonnie]

Quote:

But your views do not line up with Luke....You are all worried that someone might get over on you, Luke is not so self-concerned....You are....

Whether you are quoting reams and reams of your favorite texts to show others what they must be and you get to be please stick honestly to what has been said.When you want to tell me what I think,what I do and why I do it, make sure you haven't grabbed the wrong crystal ball.

I am not worried about someone getting over on me.That is your convenient false assumption. I think this is now either the third or fourth time I have said it. It is not even the money as number one concern. It is those that so many choose to keep in victim status. The entitlement mentality is not good for anyone,especially the children. A hand up is different than a continual hand out. Those needing victims to talk and feel so superior have problems themselves.

Money is wasted and stretched far to thin for those mentally and physically unable to care for themselves. Those do need to be remembered as well when everyone is making excuses for the "ignorant welfare recipient"

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

Quote:

First, I don't believe that.

Yes you do,you have said it repeatedly...

When I say "the poor, ignorant, gullible and elderly" I am talking about four different groups. Of course there is overlap but those are four different groups.

Are you telling me you have not indicated the poor is ignorant.

Four different groups or not,they are all ignorant in your opinion. Because of the group they are in they are ignorant gullible victims of one kind or another. What group would you place the elderly?? What group is the poor in that cannot read a contract,has a gun to their head? to force them to sign,another gun to force them to charge,another to force them overcharge?

[bonnie]

Quote:

Dave Ramsey is hated by many in the financial industry. I was surprised that he got his show on the FOX Business Network. I am not so surprised that he is an invited guest on the morning news shows like GMA and Today. He is a champion for the little guy. A lot of financial advisers target those making a lot of money like small business owners and corporate managers. Those types are definitely in Dave's audience but so are the small guys like the restaurant waitress, the mechanic, the carpenter, the school teacher and such.

So is Rush,Sean,Glenn beck, so what. You aswell as others have pointed out rather quickly at times that they make money doing what they are doing.What is the difference concerning Dave Ramsey.Only his is made supposedly championing the poor

When you become a millionaire on the backs of championing the poor,I look a little more closely and don't worship at their feet.

No one says he should not make money,if he is doing it honestly,go fo it.

But if you become rich defending the poor it is not all the big hearted christian,little more involved

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His simplistic solutions are what make him so attractable. He has a very basic philosophy: don't spend more than you make. Wow! What a concept. It drives the financial sectors wild. Don't spend more than you make and make your money before you spend it. Woe!!!! People haven't heard advice like that since grandma died.

You seem to be spouting what Dave Ramsey says about himself

Quote:

His radio show opens like this: "Cash is king. Debt is dumb and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice."

So.I really don't care how his show opens. Words are very easy to come by.