Can we pursue capitalism____

[Dr. Shane]

So is Rush,Sean,Glenn beck, so what?

Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glen Beck all seem like good people to me. Of course they are ideologues but that doesn't make them bad people.

[Dr. Shane]

Yup,the fat cat deserves his vacation if he has worked hard,been prudent with his spending and responsibly paid on time.

The fat cat deserves what he pays for with his money. Sadly what happens with credit cards is the fat cat dances while the thin man pays the band.

[Dr. Shane]

Personally I still don't believe you have the God given right to judge all with your little victim brush. Some people need victims to feel like a rescuer I guess,but it doesn't leave you free to condemn and hope for hell for others.That is a right you do not possess nor ever will.

When you ask this.....How can they escape the damnation of hell? Let me ask you. How can you escape being judged just as you are judging?

You are not the one to judge those you see as eternal victims as helpless ignorant people.

I do not judge anyone. I completely avoid judging. Judging is not for me. Those that accuse me of judging maybe themselves judging me but I don't even judge them for judging me. Oh, no! I leave all that judging to God.

I do read the Bible however. And I tend to repeat things that I have read in the Bible. And when I repeat such things sometimes feel like I am judging them. But what they feel and what I am doing are not the same thing. The Bible says that God has a spot reserved for those that harm children. So I may repeat that God has a special place in hell reserved for those that harm children. But that's not me talking. I am just repeating what the Bible says. The Bible may ask the question how hypocrites can avoid the fires of hell and I may repeat it but it's not me. I am just repeating what is in the Bible. I stay away from judging. Judging is not for me.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

So is Rush,Sean,Glenn beck, so what?

Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glen Beck all seem like good people to me. Of course they are ideologues but that doesn't make them bad people.

Oh,I misunderstood you. I was really convinced believing as they do that they were among the cold hearted conservative wanting single mothers to become prostitutes. And wanting to take the food out of the mouth of children. They all seem to believe in a little more personal responsibility.

Dave Ramsey makes is money off his spin. Sounds like he has made an awful lot of money.

Nothing wrong with making money honestly but I can dismiss him as easily as you dismiss others that don't agree with you.

[bonnie]

Quote:

I do not judge anyone. I completely avoid judging. Judging is not for me. Those that accuse me of judging maybe themselves judging me but I don't even judge them for judging me. Oh, no! I leave all that judging to God.

Really? How spiritually correct you are.

Quote:

I do read the Bible however. And I tend to repeat things that I have read in the Bible. And when I repeat such things sometimes feel like I am judging them. But what they feel and what I am doing are not the same thing. The Bible says that God has a spot reserved for those that harm children. So I may repeat that God has a special place in hell reserved for those that harm children. But that's not me talking. I am just repeating what the Bible says. The Bible may ask the question how hypocrites can avoid the fires of hell and I may repeat it but it's not me. I am just repeating what is in the Bible. I stay away from judging. Judging is not for me.

Sure glad you have clarified judging is not for you. You determine who harms children according to what you want others to agree with you on. Don't agree with Shane, the special place in hell for you.

I think the first line of defense for children is the parents. Parents that harm their own children may need their spot reserved for them.

Let us repeat according to your definition of not judging.

Parents are the ones to love and value their children more than anyone else of earth.When they don't,even with help,make sure you have enough room in that special place for those not doing as they should for those innocent children they bring into the world. Those you aren't judging of course.

We are all accountable for our actions,some have it easier than others for some reason,but regardless ALL are responsible. The first responsible for harming a innocent child is the parents,no matter what excuse they want to find.

Maybe in your world when we all stand before God parents can get a pass by telling God about those cold hearted conservatives. I don't think that is going to work.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

Yup,the fat cat deserves his vacation if he has worked hard,been prudent with his spending and responsibly paid on time.

The fat cat deserves what he pays for with his money. Sadly what happens with credit cards is the fat cat dances while the thin man pays the band.

Goodness,whatever will we do for those evil fat cats on this forum? You really need to make sure they know you are talking to them. To be sure they realize Shane has the right to remind them of that special place in hell you have made sure is reserved for them.Disagreeing with you seems to carry a death sentence for them

[Dr. Shane]

Oh,I misunderstood you. I was really convinced believing as they do that they were among the cold hearted conservative wanting single mothers to become prostitutes.

Well you are admitting that you misunderstood me. That is a good start. I think you have misunderstood me on many occasions.

[Dr. Shane]

Dave Ramsey makes is money off his spin. Sounds like he has made an awful lot of money.

I can't think of a greater American alive today than Dave Ramsey. I can afford to take a vacation to Minnesota/Wisconsin this year for Christmas and show my kids real snow for the first time because of Dave Ramsey. Praise God for Dave Ramsey!!!

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

Oh,I misunderstood you. I was really convinced believing as they do that they were among the cold hearted conservative wanting single mothers to become prostitutes.

Well you are admitting that you misunderstood me. That is a good start. I think you have misunderstood me on many occasions.

I did forget to add TIC

[Dr. Shane]

Goodness,whatever will we do for those evil fat cats on this forum? You really need to make sure they know you are talking to them.

No, I don't need to make sure anyone "knows" I am talking to them. Really, I am not talking to anyone specific. I just put the truth out there in an if-the-shoe-fits-wear-it kind of manner. The Holy Spirit can convict people of sin. That is not my job. I just need to spread the word. God can do the convicting.

[bonnie]

Biblically there are examples given that are far worse than you or I faced. I don't see a never ending rant by God against others.

Joseph must have been one scared young man. If anyone had an excuse to blame others for the situation he found himself,he did.

The ultimate fate of those involved,those that did not do enough,those that harmed him in one way or another is between them and God. Not between you,them and God. Nor does he need your reminder of what he should do.

Joseph alone was responsible for how he responded,his obedience in some very trying times.Not claiming poor and ignorant.

Samson is one that paid the natural consequences of his disobedience.Even tho he turned to God prior to his death,God did not spare him some very terrible times and his death.

Daniel and his three companions didn't seem to have an excuse either.Who could have blamed anyone for not wanting to be burned alive?

Kind of tough circumstances to be found in. No excuses for them as they faced a hot furnace.

Moses had a rocky start in life. Don't see a long rant about those cold hearted people that have that special place in hell.

Nothing to indicate God was using that as an excuse for any of them..

All those that could and should have helped us as children are completely unimportant.That is between them and God.

It did nothing to excuse behavior on the part of my brothers and I.

We could sit there and say no one will give us anything,so what can we do? Or we could take responsibility for our own actions. If I applied for a credit card and overspent or didn't read the terms,no one's fault but mine.

If I did not love my children enough to put them first,learn what I did not know,I should have lost my children. I should not be given a choice if I want to accept terms and conditions for the taxpayer supporting me.

No reason whatsoever to blame those that did not rush to my defense and treat me as a victim

[Guest]

Long live

Rush Limbaugh

Sean Hannity

and Glen Beck!!!

[bonnie]

Long live

Rush Limbaugh

Sean Hannity

and Glen Beck!!!

Careful there. All three really are very firm on personal responsibility. They are cold hearted conservatives that want women to prostitute themselves. Really get their kicks out of hanking food out of the mouth of children

[Guest]

They are great americans.

[bonnie]

They are great americans.

Watch your mouth before you end up as a cold hearted conservative hoping to get women into prostitution,pulling the food out of the mouth of their babies

[Dr. Shane]

I have not seen anyone here, including myself, insinuate that Sean Hannity, Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh are cold-hearted conservatives. To pretend that I have is dishonest.

I have stated there are two kinds of conservatives: Compassionate conservatives and cold-hearted conservatives. The only name I mentioned that I consider to be a cold-hearted conservative is Pat Buchanon and it may not have been appropriate to name him. My approach is that of if-the-shoe-fits-wear-it. I do not label people compassionate of cold-hearted. That is a job each individual needs to do him or herself.

In the same way, there are two kinds of liberals. There are secular liberals and God-fearing liberals. I don't label anyone one way or the other unless they have already labeled themselves. Then I take them at their word and apply the label to them.

The fact is that if we take welfare away from a drug addicted single mother, her chances of going into prostitution is very high. I don't think that is a solution. I think we should treat her for her drug addiction. If she doesn't quit using drugs after receiving treatment, we remove her children and provide them with foster care. An artificial five-year welfare limit lacks compassion. The compassionate thing is to deal with the root cause of the problem.

[Ted Oplinger]

In the same way, there are two kinds of liberals. There are secular liberals and God-fearing liberals.

Actually, there are 3 kinds of liberals out there:

1) The secular kind, who has replaced God with the state and government;

2) The God-fearing liberal, the true Christian simply caught up in the false "compassion and social justice" premises of the secular liberal;

3) The cold-hearted liberal - the kind that thinks that since they pay taxes, they are free from helping their fellow man. It is quite known that liberals are the lowest contributors to charities, as a political group designation. These usually get a pass, though, and are rarely called for what they are.

While you did not mention it, I will: there millions of God-fearing conservatives out there, with the overwhelming majority of them quite compassionate about the human condition. Seems like a Feudian slip there, to portray liberals as God-fearing, but not conservatives. There are also as many Pharisees out there in the liberal camp as there are in the conservative camp.

Likewise, there are also a great many secular conservatives, having nothing to do with religion.

Unfortunately, some mistake compassion to be the removal of all obstacles in life, never saying a cross word to those culpable of evil, and never expecting others to own up to personal responsibilities. And, unfortunately, I've seen many posts insinuate in this (and other threads) that should a conservative differ from these 3 talking points, they are cold-hearted.

There is right now a very fundamental difference in thought: Most God-fearing conservatives reject the notion of the government taking care of charity - the it rightfully remains the respository of the God-given ministries of individuals and churches, as it was for nearly 2000 years. Too many straw-men and red herring arguments get thrown out by the "compassionate", saying the problem is just too big, too pervasive.

Well, give people free lunches forever, they never learn to fend for themselves. Paul's advice is quite astute, even for today: Let him who steals steal no longer, but pursue honest labor, that he may be able to share to others in time of need.

[phkrause]

Where ever you say liberal, I can put conservative, and anywhere you say conservative I can place liberal, and it fits real good from where I come from. I consider my self a liberal and 1-I don't replace God with the lousy government and state. 2-and I'm not caught up in the false compassion and social justice of conservatives either. 3-and I pay my taxes and if I feel like I'd don't have to help my fellow man, I don't have to, like a lot of my so called conservative friends, I have that feel that way. So you can give lip service of words and spin conservatives and liberals any way you want, but I don't buy that for one minute.

pk

[Dr. Shane]

There are secular liberals with an agenda to get God out of public life. They have a very anti-God agenda. I am not aware of any secular conservatives with an anti-God agenda. There are also very dedicated Christians and Jews that are liberal and have no ambition to remove God from public life. That is why I distinguish between two types of liberals. Are there cold-hearted liberals? I guess I would have to see that defined better to answer the question. Certainly there are selfish liberal just as there are selfish conservatives and moderates. The word liberal implies "wanting to share". If I give someone a liberal portion of food it is a generous portion. If I interpret something liberally I take it beyond its original context. So if a person is cold-hearted and not wanting to share they can hardly call themselves a liberal. If they do call themselves a liberal, what they really are is a hypocrite and the world is full of those both conservative and liberal.

[bonnie]

I have not seen anyone here, including myself, insinuate that Sean Hannity, Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh are cold-hearted conservatives. To pretend that I have is dishonest.

[bonnie]

I was born in northern MN. As a child I used to listen to what some of the old timers had gone thru in the depression.

One family of five children lived in a old derelict school bus for a couple of years.Gets pretty cold and nasty there.

Packed straw bales around three sides stuck a couple of wood stoves on each end with the stovepipe out the window. That only kept them above freezing. Food was pretty scarce.They did not receive the food stamps of today.Or a energy credit. Most could not help much as they were not much better off.

The kids left school as quick as they could find a farmer that would let them work just for food.

Not a one felt entitled to anything.No one turned to drugs and prostitution. They did not have any chances given to them.

If they could make it without any help whatsoever for any length of time,a welfare recipient can make it with five years help.

There is no difference in the cold,hunger or hopelessness that millions and millions have gone thru and managed to help themselves.They were just as cold and hungry.They truly did not get a chance. They would have had just as much right if not more so to feel entitled to what others had.

[Dr. Shane]

All three you mentioned are completely against the welfare program as it exists.

So am I.

• Welfare needs to address substance abuse.
• Those going off welfare shouldn't lose medicaid for one year.
• Working mothers on welfare shouldn't be penelized for working.
• Day care needs to be provided for welfare moms in school.

Rush, Sean and Glen are all great guys. Rush is a little stuck on himself but the other two are really cool.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

All three you mentioned are completely against the welfare program as it exists.

So am I.

• Welfare needs to address substance abuse.
• Those going off welfare shouldn't lose medicaid for one year.
• Working mothers on welfare shouldn't be penelized for working.
• Day care needs to be provided for welfare moms in school.

Rush, Sean and Glen are all great guys. Rush is a little stuck on himself but the other two are really cool.

Nope,doesn't wash. Sean and Rush were as solidly behind the five year limit as any could be. Thought it long overdue.

On substance abuse. It is addressed . A friend of mine was/is addicted to some pretty powerful prescription drugs.Almost died two weeks ago,had two heart attacks due to drug withdrawal and ended up in rehab.

She was the only one in for the first time. Her room mate treated rehab like a vacation retreat.This was her 19th time. Out of the other 40 in there,none were for the first time and almost all were on the county

So where have you been? Day care is provided for mothers in school. Not fully utilized either,isn't that odd. Two of the schools are barely able to stay open.Seems some of the pregnant moms are not interested.Transportation is provided.

Maybe you haven't heard. Mothers in the welfare to work/school

program are given one year after beginning work. The woman I did day care for received subsidized housing,paid me 250.00 per week and received medical. Of course if they want 6-7-8 years to achieve training/work or school after five years they are no longer entitled to the labor of others. Have to work just like the ones they expect to support them

[Dr. Shane]

Substance abuse needs to be addressed by random drug testing. That means that at any given time, a person on welfare can be called and given 12 hours to report to a clinic for a drug test. I am not aware of any states doing that.

I am not saying that Rush, Sean and Glen are not misguided on some things. I know they are. No one is perfect. I am just saying that they come off as nice guys. Anyone that favors a 5-year limit to welfare just hasn't thought it through well enough. Now that we have had the 5-year limit we can look back on it and see what a failure it has been. Obama is courageous enough to toss out what doesn't work. Praise God from Whom all blessings flow - and count Obama as one of those blessings.

[Dr. Shane]

Day care is provided for mothers in school.

If Minnesota is doing this that is great. That is really fantastic. It needs to be done nationally. I mean all school, not just high school. GED and ESL classes too.