Neil D Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Government subsidies on the state's cotton and rice crops could be slashed under the president's proposed budget. February 8, 2005 Times Headlines By Jerry Hirsch, Times Staff Writer TULARE, Calif. — President Bush's proposal to trim federal farm subsidy payments is planting fears among some of the state's cotton and rice growers. "This could be crippling for many California farmers," said Mark Watte, whose family tends 2,000 acres of cotton west of this San Joaquin Valley town. Cotton and rice operations collected the bulk of the $672 million in federal subsidies paid out in California in 2003, the latest year statistics are available, according to the Environmental Working Group, a Washington-based nonprofit agency. Nationwide, farmers were paid $16.4 billion in 2003, the group said. Advocates see the payments as a cushion for a key industry against bad times. Opponents see them as corporate welfare. For growers like Watte, who owns one of the largest cotton farming operations in Tulare County, the payments are especially important in years like this. A worldwide cotton glut has dropped prices to about 43 cents a pound from about 74 cents a pound a year ago. Under the Bush proposal, farmers would see their maximum annual payment slashed to $250,000 from $360,000, said Keith Collins, chief economist at the U.S. Department of Agriculture. And the rules for how the money is collected would be tightened. Current regulations allow growers to collect indirect payments from multiple farming concerns in which they have ownership interests. The Bush administration wants to limit the subsidies to individuals, possibly through the use of Social Security numbers, Collins said. For all the farmers who voted republican [:"blue"]Say, all you farmers out there in voter land. How do you feel now that YOUR president has cut YOUR subsidies for your crops? Oh, you gonna do that for "National Security"? I guess that would be good...[i am still thinking about that.... [/] Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Does anyone think the government should be subsidizing the farming industry? It is a perfect example of big government. Through subsidies the federal government controls how much rice, corn, wheat, cotton, etc. is grown. Even how much milk is produced. It is a far cry from the free market. The federal government has been playing with both supply and demand of agricultural products for so many years, who knows what would happen if they let the free market take over? Bush is such a big-government type of politician I am surprised he would make such a move. Oh, BTW, do you know that Sam Donaldson or ABC news and Scott Pippen of the NBA recieve federal farm subsidies for not growing crops on their land? Maybe Bush is just cutting their subsidies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 Quote: do you know that Sam Donaldson or ABC news and Scott Pippen of the NBA recieve federal farm subsidies for not growing crops on their land? Maybe Bush is just cutting their subsidies That would be fine by me. I suspect that they would be able to afford it. Quote: Does anyone think the government should be subsidizing the farming industry? It is a perfect example of big government. Through subsidies the federal government controls how much rice, corn, wheat, cotton, etc. is grown. Even how much milk is produced. It is a far cry from the free market. The federal government has been playing with both supply and demand of agricultural products for so many years, who knows what would happen if they let the free market take over? This has been studied out for many years and with the primary outcome...When produce became available, the supply would outstrip demand and there would be fluxuations in the prices at various times of the year in which the small family farm would be priced out of existance. All this does is put more pressure on the family farm and it will cause them to sell thier product when the price is low and cost are high. They will not be able to afford to produce and they will sell. The result is more big farms, commericall farms. That is what will happen. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> The result is more big farms, commericall farms. That is what will happen. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Is that a bad thing? Really? Granted, with big business in charge of the food supply (and it pretty much is today) the need for government regulation increases. But look at it from this prespective. The cost of food goes down and there is less need for government subsidies. Those are two major advantages to big business being in agriculture. I got my degree from Minnesota State University and companies like Hermel, ADM and Pilsbury own hundreds of thousands of acres of farm land. So corporate America is already a major player in agriculture. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 Quote: Is that a bad thing? Really? Granted, with big business in charge of the food supply (and it pretty much is today) the need for government regulation increases. From a Republican, I am suprised at you, Shane. I am not in favor of big business for a couple of reasons. First, it is hard on the enviorment. If you have ever lived down water flow of a pig farm or chicken farm, you might understand when your well water become hypersaturated with bad bacteria. Also, economically, the fewer the companys the larger the prices. With many companys, cmpetition in the free market system works best to keep the prices low. A first year economic student knows that...Third, the family farm tends to promote a healthy whole life style. And while corporate america tends to be a major player, it only plays for a few. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Consider tobacco farming. The government sells quotas to grow tobacco. The quotas are owned by GWB's buddies. They then parcel out these quotas to the actual tobacco farmers, who actually grow the stuff for a barely liveable wage. Then the government provides subsidies to the quota holders. Big Business and GWB - already here to loot an economy near you. /Bevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> From a Republican, I am suprised at you, Shane. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Proof once again that I am a moderate. </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> I am not in favor of big business for a couple of reasons. First, it is hard on the enviorment. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> That is one of the reasons we need increased regulation. </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> economically, the fewer the companys the larger the prices <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Again, regulation can take care of this just like it does in the insurance industry. Regardless, no cartels or monopolies can be allowed in agriculture or any other industry if the free market is going to serve the consumer. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Quote: Again, regulation can take care of this just like it does in the insurance industry. Regardless, no cartels or monopolies can be allowed in agriculture or any other industry if the free market is going to serve the consumer. Now there's an oxymoron....."Free Market" with regulations....Sorry, tain't happening when Goverment is involved....It will not be a free market if you control prices or you control competition. The market then becomes "regulated" and "fixed" to some one's idea in some goverment bureau office depending upon if he's had his fix of coffee or some other drug that day and did not get into a fight with a relative [ ie wife or kids, mother-in-law, ect.] Sorry, Shane, I prefer a free market that has all the players playing on as level a field as possible... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 What we have today is a regulated free market. Oxymoron? Perhaps, I hadn't thought of it that way before. It was a Republican President whose face is now on Mt. Rushmoore, who started regulation of big business as we know it today. Teddy Roosevelt was looking out for both the workers and consumers. The free markets in the US have been regulated ever since however a big step up happened during another Republican President. The growth of government regulation boomed in the early 1970s during the Nixion Adminstration and really formed the model for what we live in today. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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