hmmm Muslims.....

[bonnie]

Quote:

Bonnie if I sounded in my post that there are agents of satan here, than I apologies. My intend was to answer Neil's post. Sometimes it doesn't come across correctly. All I'm saying is that if he or anyone disagree's with someone post just say it that way, don't say they are agents of satan. If it didn't sound like that to you I'm sorry. I read most of your post's and usually all the posts. Don't always agree with them but I would not call you or anyone for that matter a agent of satan. You have every right to express what you believe and see that's going on in this crazy world. Again I apologies if I made you think that I meant it that way.

pk

Thank you for clarifying.

There are people that need to promote their "own Christianity" above that of others. Makes them feel somehow superior which they seem to need.

I have to confess tho,I am at a loss as to what was said that promoted hatred.

[bonnie]

Quote:

pk

Some people just have the weight of the world on their shoulders pk. They are the ones who know what true Adventism really is, and they can spot one of Satan's agents a mile away. That must be quite a burden to bear.

Condemnation and judgments are a nasty job but someone has to do it,Right??

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

So, putting out that there are actually 'agents of satan here', should be a wake up call to those who are here..

ntmomitf

[Aliensanctuary]

The LORD will forgive even suicidal mass-murderers if they accept his mark in the Last Days, and every one else who does so, including SDA's. There will be nothing left to create divisions among former enemies. Some may very well sacrifice themselves to try to save their new friends.

Jesus taught us what we must do for our enemies in this life and others we may dislike...be kind to them, no matter how offensive or deadly their behavior may be. I suppose that would be the mark of true Christians: Being kind to those who aren't, forgiving those who hurt us.

A simple act of kindness is worth more than a lifetime of sermons or a mountain of quotes. That's how Jesus worked.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Neil

So, putting out that there are actually 'agents of satan here', should be a wake up call to those who are here..

ntmomitf

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

I suppose that would be the mark of true Christians: Being kind to those who aren't, forgiving those who hurt us.

Quote:

yes, that is what i struggle with.

You're not alone. It's basic human nature to retaliate, which tends to escalate. Responding with kindness tends to de-escalate tense or unpleasant situations. For most of us, though, it just doesn't come naturally.

If we look ahead to the Last Days, among those who choose to serve the LORD, there will be no more religions as a result of the 3 Angels' messages, and, the testimony of the 2 Witnesses. Former Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, etc., will all unite if they choose to become servants of the LORD. They will all worship the LORD, and him only, by demonstrating their subservience to him.

The Kingdom of God has little to do with religion...it's more of a business arrangement, like a job. Those who become the LORD's servants will be well taken care of in the next life as they perform the tasks he assigns them.

To be considered for a position, one must demonstrate their willingness to know and follow the Code of Ethics of the Kingdom of God, that is, the 10 Commandments:

Quote:

Love, honor, and obey the LORD at all times, under all circumstances.

Do no harm to yourself, or others.

Conduct yourself as a servant of the LORD, and mankind.

In the Last Days, though, receiving the LORD's ID is no light matter, for it will mean becoming a target, and almost certain death.

Quote:

Whoever saves their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life [in the service of the LORD] will save it.

It's our willingness to die for the LORD in the Last Days that is the pass/fail test for our acceptance into his Kingdom of Peace. It's the only way to test true loyalty...in the face of death.

What to do about immigrants who overwhelm our familiar culture with less than civil behavior?

We could:

Learn a little of their language so we can greet them or tell them to please move because they're blocking our way

Volunteer to help in teaching them how to speak and read and write English and learn American ways

Babysit their children

Become familiar with their religion and culture

Email or text someone from their religion or culture whom you might befriend

Write a little story to teach the solution to a problem, have it translated, then post it in both languages printed side-by-side

and so on...

If we are full of resentment, it's selfishness, and we only harm ourselves. If we choose to serve others, we will grow, become better people, and learn the Way of Peace.

[bonnie]

Quote:

I suppose that would be the mark of true Christians: Being kind to those who aren't, forgiving those who hurt us.

Quote:

yes, that is what i struggle with.

You're not alone. It's basic human nature to retaliate, which tends to escalate. Responding with kindness tends to de-escalate tense or unpleasant situations. For most of us, though, it just doesn't come naturally.

[teresaq]

Given the dedication of some muslims to killing our citizens and the lack of violence against muslims in general I don't think it speaks to loudly of resentment.

this is an interesting statement in light of the possibility that the twin towers may have been an "inside job", set up so that we would willingly give up our basic rights.

nor have i seen much violence in this country by muslims against our citizens.

[Guest]

nor have i seen much violence in this country by muslims against our citizens.

What about Fort Hood? 13 dead.

What about the attempted plane bombing on Christmas day, over Detroit?

What about the muslim who tried to kill as many as he could with his car a while back, on a college campus?

Should I go on? There are more. What do you consider to be much?

[karl]

From a Canadian author published in World Monitor

By Susan MacAllen

In 1978-91 I was living and studying in Denmark. But in 1978 - even in

Copenhagen, one didn't see Muslim immigrants.

The Danish population embraced visitors, celebrated the exotic, went out of

its way to protect each of its citizens. It was proud of its new brand of

socialist liberalism one in development since the conservatives had lost

power in 1929 - a system where no worker had to struggle to survive, where

one ultimately could count upon the state as in, perhaps, no other western

nation at the time.

The rest of Europe saw the Scandinavians as free-thinking, progressive and

infinitely generous in their welfare policies. Denmark boasted low crime

rates, devotion to the environment, a superior educational system and a

history of humanitarianism.

Denmark was also most generous in its immigration policies - it offered the

best welcome in Europe to the new immigrant: generous welfare payments from

first arrival plus additional perks in transportation, housing and

education. It was determined to set a world example for inclusiveness and

multiculturalism. How could it have predicted that one day in 2005 a series

of political cartoons in a newspaper would spark violence that would leave

dozens dead in the streets - all because its commitment to multiculturalism

would come back to bite?

By the 1990's the growing urban Muslim population was obvious - and its

unwillingness to integrate into Danish society was obvious. Years of

immigrants had settled into Muslim-exclusive enclaves. As the Muslim

leadership became more vocal about what they considered the decadence of

Denmark's liberal way of life, the Danes - once so welcoming - began to feel

slighted. Many Danes had begun to see Islam as incompatible with their

long-standing values: belief in personal liberty and free speech, in

equality for women, in tolerance for other ethnic groups, and a deep pride

in Danish heritage and history.

An article by Daniel Pipes and Lars Hedegaard, in which they forecasted,

accurately, that the growing immigrant problem in Denmark would explode. In

the article they reported:

'Muslim immigrants constitute 5 percent of the population but consume

upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending.' 'Muslims are only 4 percent

of Denmark's 5.4 million people but make up a majority of the country's

convicted rapists, an especially combustible issue given that practically

all the female victims are non-Muslim. Similar, if lesser, disproportion is

found in other crimes.'

'Over time, as Muslim immigrants increase in numbers, they wish less to mix

with the indigenous population. A recent survey finds that only 5 percent of

young Muslim immigrants would readily marry a Dane.'

'Forced marriages - promising a newborn daughter in Denmark to a male cousin

in the home country, then compelling her to marry him, sometimes on pain of

death - are one problem'

'Muslim leaders openly declare their goal of introducing Islamic law once

Denmark's Muslim population grows large enough - a not-that-remote

prospect. If present trends persist, one sociologist estimates, every third

inhabitant of Denmark in 40 years will be Muslim.'

It is easy to understand why a growing number of Danes would feel that

Muslim immigrants show little respect for Danish values and laws. An example

is the phenomenon common to other European countries and Canada: some

Muslims in Denmark who opted to leave the Muslim faith have been murdered in

the name of Islam, while others hide in fear for their lives. Jews are also

threatened and harassed openly by Muslim leaders in Denmark, a country where

once Christian citizens worked to smuggle out nearly all of their 7,000 Jews

by night to Sweden - before the Nazis could invade. I think of my Danish

friend Elsa - who, as a teenager, had dreaded crossing the street to the

bakery every morning under the eyes of occupying Nazi soldiers - and I

wonder what she would say today.

In 2001, Denmark elected the most conservative government in some 70 years

- one that had some decidedly non-generous ideas about liberal unfettered

immigration. Today Denmark has the strictest immigration policies in

Europe. ( Its effort to protect itself has been met with accusations of

'racism' by liberal media across Europe - even as other governments struggle

to right the social problems wrought by years of too-lax immigration.)

If you wish to become Danish, you must attend three years of language

classes. You must pass a test on Denmark's history, culture, and a Danish

language test .

You must live in Denmark for 7 years before applying for citizenship.

You must demonstrate an intent to work, and have a job waiting. If you wish

to bring a spouse into Denmark, you must both be over 24 years of age, and

you won't find it so easy anymore to move your friends and family to Denmark

with you.

You will not be allowed to build a mosque in Copenhagen. Although your

children have a choice of some 30 Arabic culture and language schools in

Denmark, they will be strongly encouraged to assimilate to Danish society in

ways that past immigrants weren't.

In 2006, the Danish minister for employment, Claus Hjort Frederiksen, spoke

publicly of the burden of Muslim immigrants on the Danish welfare system,

and it was horrifying: the government's welfare committee had calculated

that if immigration from Third World countries were blocked, 75 percent of

the cuts needed to sustain the huge welfare system in coming decades would

be unnecessary. In other words, the welfare system, as it existed, was being

exploited by immigrants to the point of eventually bankrupting the

government. 'We are simply forced to adopt a new policy on immigration'.

'The calculations of the welfare committee are terrifying and show how

unsuccessful the integration of immigrants has been up to now,' he said.

A large thorn in the side of Denmark 's imams is the Minister of

Immigration and Integration, Rikke Hvilshoj. She makes no bones about the

new policy toward immigration, 'The number of foreigners coming to the

country makes a difference,' Hvilshoj says, 'There is an inverse correlation

between how many come here and how well we can receive the foreigners that

come.' And on Muslim immigrants needing to demonstrate a willingness to

blend in, 'In my view, Denmark should be a country with room for different

cultures and religions. Some values, however, are more important than

others. We refuse to question democracy, equal rights, and freedom of

speech.'

Hvilshoj has paid a price for her show of backbone. Perhaps to test her

resolve, the leading radical imam in Denmark, Ahmed Abdel Rahman Abu Laban,

demanded that the government pay blood money to the family of a Muslim who

was murdered in a suburb of Copenhagen, stating that the family's thirst for

revenge could be thwarted for money. When Hvilshoj dismissed his demand, he

argued that in Muslim culture the payment of retribution money was common,

to which Hvilshoj replied that what is done in a Muslim country is not

necessarily what is done in Denmark.

The Muslim reply came soon after: her house was torched while she, her

husband and children slept. All managed to escape unharmed, but she and her

family were moved to a secret location and she and other ministers were

assigned bodyguards for the first time - in a country where such murderous

violence was once so scarce.

Her government has slid to the right, and her borders have tightened. Many

believe that what happens in the next decade will determine whether Denmark

survives as a bastion of good living, humane thinking and social

responsibility, or whether it becomes a nation at civil war with supporters

of Sharia law.

And meanwhile, Canadians clamor for stricter immigration policies, and

demand an end to state welfare programs that allow many immigrants to live

on the public dole. As we in Canada look at the enclaves of Muslims amongst

us, and see those who enter our shores too easily, dare live on our taxes,

yet refuse to embrace our culture, respect our traditions, participate in

our legal system, obey our laws, speak our language, appreciate our history.

we would do well to look to Denmark, and say a prayer for her future and for

our own.

-------

Article URL is here: http://worldmonitor.wordpress.com/2007/11/21/salute-the-danish-flag/

[bonnie]

Quote:

this is an interesting statement in light of the possibility that the twin towers may have been an "inside job", set up so that we would willingly give up our basic rights.

This doesn't even warrant a response. A lot less violent ways are eating away at our freedoms.

Quote:

nor have i seen much violence in this country by muslims against our citizens.

Seems we just had 50?? people killed or wounded by a muslim.

A nice little christmas surprise failed but the intent and desire

to kill almost 300 people was very real. The first attack on the World Trade Center was also something that was intended to kill as many americans as possible.

Young somalia men are being recruited from MN and sent back to receive training in terrorism. Of course maybe they have agree not to come here and kill americans but somehow I doubt it.

[Aliensanctuary]

bonnie

I'm sorry that other cultures are disrupting your life, and the lives of many others across the world.

Perhaps western civilization will ultimately have to move over for Islam, a dismal prospect at best due to the great loss of freedoms. Christians and freedom-lovers around the world may very well face persecution and death at the hands of barbarians, a new, sad chapter in the history of Earth, and the end of an era.

[bonnie]

bonnie

I'm sorry that other cultures are disrupting your life, and the lives of many others across the world.

Perhaps western civilization will ultimately have to move over for Islam, a dismal prospect at best due to the great loss of freedoms. Christians and freedom-lovers around the world may very well face persecution and death at the hands of barbarians, a new, sad chapter in the history of Earth, and the end of an era.

Why should moving over for Islam be a dismal prospect or cause us to lose our freedoms?

From what has been said here problems come as a result of a very few.If we were more of what we were supposed to be there shouldn't be any problem or loss of freedom should there?

I thought the Islam religion was one of peace,tolerance and kindness.

All we have to do is have peace,love and kindness and all will be well.

My life is not disrupted at this time. We have many cultures represented in our small town and surrounding communities. Generally relations seem quite good.

I am not the one that had to leave my school of choice,or have difficulty getting home from the airport. When I have been inconvenienced at shopping,I have simply gone elsewhere.

Irritating,but not life altering.

It would be irritating no matter what group or race was involved.

Obviously you would not be and that is good. The almost reverence in this country for the religion of Islam is a little hard to understand.Other mainstream religions are not given so much leeway to force their beliefs over that of most others

[teresaq]

Quote:

nor have i seen much violence in this country by muslims against our citizens.

Seems we just had 50?? people killed or wounded by a muslim.

are you talking about a muslim citizen of the united states? or someone else?

how many united states citizens go on some kind of rampage, such as the schools and take out multiple others?

in light of that, i dont see much violence by the muslims, as a group, in our country. not any more than by the whites, the blacks, the latinos... the catholics, the protestants, the hindi...the irish, the italians...etc.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq

nor have i seen much violence in this country by muslims against our citizens.

What about Fort Hood? 13 dead.

What about the attempted plane bombing on Christmas day, over Detroit?

What about the muslim who tried to kill as many as he could with his car a while back, on a college campus?

Should I go on? There are more. What do you consider to be much?

ive seen the same magnification done with the blacks and latinos. guess its the muslims turn now.

first we tried to wipe out the native americans and did take their land from them. we enslaved blacks and declared them to be not human. pretty much enslaved and denied rights to the chinese. put the japanese americans in concentration camps but did nothing to the german americans. then the irish, the italians....guess its the muslims turn now.

oh, and how about in the 1800s when we sent a ship to japan, a closed country, and demanded they open up for trade or wed bomb them off the map. anyone still wondering why they attacked pearl harbor? those bad people!! dont they know we have the right to do what we wish and they should just take it!!

people havent done much skimming of history books lately, i can see.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

it says "and", it doesnt say, "then will".

we live in a world that is dedicated to conquering and controlling, and to think that we are not just as guilty is, well no offense, but rather stupid. (meant in a vague general sense, but to no one in particular.)

i have had the good fortune to be able to associate with different groups of people and from what i have found there are good, bad and indifferent in every group, just like there are with the "whiteys". :)

[Dottie]

Your list of horrible things that your country has done is long. One item on the list I beg to differ with. Near the town in which I grew up was a camp which held German immigrants.

My father applied for a job at that time, and was asked his heritage. He told them he was an American. He meant that he was born in this country. (His forbears had been here since early 1800's.) They told him he didn't look like an Indian. He didn't, at that time, know where his ancestors were from. He got the job.

But there is always some prejudice against anyone who is not like us. Maybe the prejudice is born of fear of the unknown.

But when the one who is different does things that we don't understand, or has mannerisms that are not acceptable in our culture and which offend us, we feel the fear had a basis in fact.

I am not trying to discount anyone's posts, just trying to figure it out in my own mind.

[bonnie]

Quote:

how many united states citizens go on some kind of rampage, such as the schools and take out multiple others?

Yes, we have people killing others.Those of every race and ethnic

are guilty.

We also have one religious denomination wishing to kill any and all americans.One that is praised and seems almost revered for their peaceful conduct which is not borne out by the many suicide bombings and attempts.

Quote:

in light of that, i dont see much violence by the muslims, as a group, in our country. not any more than by the whites, the blacks, the latinos... the catholics, the protestants, the hindi...the irish, the italians...etc.

Haven't seen to many latinos trying to blow up a plane with 300 people.Maybe I just missed the news.

[bonnie]

Quote:

ive seen the same magnification done with the blacks and latinos. guess its the muslims turn now.

Seems like the key to being a decent human being in this country is to be a minority race.

Quote:

first we tried to wipe out the native americans and did take their land from them. we enslaved blacks and declared them to be not human.

Native americans were doing that to one another before the white settlers came here.That was not an invention of the white settler. Doesn't excuse what any of them did,but evil was not invented by white settlers

It seems it was alright if you were a native american to capture and enslave someone of another tribe.

Yes we enslaved blacks,that was quite common in that era.African americans were captured and sold to white slavers

by african americans.Read your history

Quote:

pretty much enslaved and denied rights to the chinese. put the japanese americans in concentration camps but did nothing to the german americans. then the irish, the italians....guess its the muslims turn now.

A totally false statement. My husband's g.grandparents and grandparents were mighty careful about going into down during that time. Maybe you can guess why?

We lived in northern MN during the war. A very dedicated immigrant DR was not allowed to practise.

Perhaps you are one that would have reacted perfectly to what had to be a very unsettling time.

Quote:

oh, and how about in the 1800s when we sent a ship to japan, a closed country, and demanded they open up for trade or wed bomb them off the map. anyone still wondering why they attacked pearl harbor? those bad people!! dont they know we have the right to do what we wish and they should just take it!!

How about the sins of other countries in the 1800,or maybe they didn't have any. Read your history,Japan did not bomb Pearl Harbor because of a incident from the 1800's.

Yes it was a bad,cowardly attack.

But we all must understand all the ills that have happened in the US the US deserved and asked for.

To bad this country is not as perfect as many countries are.

Quote:

people havent done much skimming of history books lately, i can see.

On that you are right and you really should

Quote:

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

it says "and", it doesnt say, "then will".

Personally I believe the US was settled with God's direction.

We will lose our freedoms at some point but I am thinking maybe all countries will.

Quote:

i have had the good fortune to be able to associate with different groups of people and from what i have found there are good, bad and indifferent in every group, just like there are with the "whiteys".

Had you been paying attention instead of trying to denigrate americans as far back as possible you may have realized that.

You are not the only one that has had the good and bad fortune to associate with the good and bad and the indifferent. One of the worst and one of the best experiences

has been with african americans.

Most people do know that one group or race is not all good or all bad.Nor does it mean that one has a right to enforce their religious beliefs and customs on others

[teresaq]

you seem to be one of those who has a knack for misunderstanding and misconstruing. so be it. :)

[bonnie]

teresaq,

Maybe you can solve a puzzle for me. Going by what you have posted,even suggesting the US would not acknowledge or show appreciation to other countries when they stepped up and provided aid when we needed it.

So far I have not seen one positive note for your country. All is blamed on americans,they are the racist selfish people.

Why would you want to be here? Not an invitation to leave,just a honest question. There certainly must be a country that reflects your personal values more than the US.

Then please explain to me why we sometimes seem to be bursting at the seams with immigrants,legal and illegal.

For those that cannot care for themselves,we feed them,clothe them,educate,house and educate. But I have to believe with nothing positive here there must be a country that is doing it perfectly or at least much better.

I certainly would not want to leave a oppressive country and trade it for a bunch of uncaring racists,would you?

[bonnie]

you seem to be one of those who has a knack for misunderstanding and misconstruing. so be it.

I don't think I misunderstood anything you said.

[Guest]

ive seen the same magnification done with the blacks and latinos. guess its the muslims turn now.

When have blacks or latinos ever killed 3000 of us in one fell swoop?

When have blacks or latinos ever opened fire at a military base killing 13?

When was the last time a black man or a latino ever tried to kill 300 people by trying to blow up a plane over Detroit?

I know the answer, it's NEVER!

Then there was the USS Kohl. blacks and latinos probably did that right? uh nope.

The DC sniper was black though. Oh wait.....he was a muslim.

Yeah I guess you're right teresa, just a bunch of magnification. I guess it's just the muslims turn now.

[karl]

teresaq,

Maybe you can solve a puzzle for me. Going by what you have posted,even suggesting the US would not acknowledge or show appreciation to other countries when they stepped up and provided aid when we needed it.

So far I have not seen one positive note for your country. All is blamed on americans,they are the racist selfish people.

Why would you want to be here? Not an invitation to leave,just a honest question. There certainly must be a country that reflects your personal values more than the US.

Then please explain to me why we sometimes seem to be bursting at the seams with immigrants,legal and illegal.

For those that cannot care for themselves,we feed them,clothe them,educate,house and educate. But I have to believe with nothing positive here there must be a country that is doing it perfectly or at least much better.

I certainly would not want to leave a oppressive country and trade it for a bunch of uncaring racists,would you?

Go for Denmark. Did you see that piece written by Canadian MacAllen about Denmark and muslims?

[karl]

Obama and Janet Napolitano appoint Arif Alikhan, a devout Muslim, as

Assistant Secretary for Policy Development, Homeland Security.

DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim

who was born in Damascus , Syria , as ADC National Executive Director as

a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).

Completely aside from their qualifications for these positions, what is your gut feeling?

Is there not any non-muslim who is qualified?

Seems like a complete insensitivity to the nation's pain on the part of this administration.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Obama and Janet Napolitano appoint Arif Alikhan, a devout Muslim, as

Assistant Secretary for Policy Development, Homeland Security.

DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim

who was born in Damascus , Syria , as ADC National Executive Director as

a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).

Completely aside from their qualifications for these positions, what is your gut feeling?

Is there not any non-muslim who is qualified?

Seems like a complete insensitivity to the nation's pain on the part of this administration.

My gut feeling is that these appointments are another big mistake by the powers that be. Kind of a slap in the face to Americans who lost friends and family on 9/11.

btw...where did this info come from?