ALL EUROPEAN LIFE DIED IN AUSCHWITZ

[cardw]

Quote:

If all this is caused by mental instability, like you seem to believe, then Muslims have the highest percentage of mental illness in the whole history of the world, going all the way back to Adam. You think maybe it's something in the water?

I happen to believe that everyone who worships an invisible god in the sky is slightly unstable.

Remember the Jews were the terrorists in the 1st century. Why do you think the Romans had to destroy Jerusalem? It's because radical Jewish believers were following the Old Testaments instructions that they were the chosen people and they had a right to claim it by violence.

Just like any culture Islam has had it's enlightened times. Unfortunately Christian Crusaders destroyed much of it and set in motion the Islam we have today.

If we were to look at Christianity's history, it has far surpassed Islam in violence. Christianity has used violence to spread itself for most of it's history beginning in the first century. It has taken the enlightenment to change Christianity into something less violent.

I mean for crying out loud the final solution is the violent destruction of the earth by the god worshipped by Christians.

Christianity has fought secular enlightenment tooth and nail on every issue from slavery, medical care, women's rights, and the advancement of science. Christianity has never been the leader of societal improvements. It has always obstructed any significant advancement.

Abolitionists were called atheists because they apposed slavery. Women's right to hold office and to have equal pay for equal work, even today, are seen as an agenda by secular humanistic lesbians by the Christian right. Are they any less crazy than Islamic extremists? Just listen to the thinly veiled violence advocated by many Fox News commentators about any group they disagree with. Where are the moderate Christians protesting that garbage?

Wake up people, no label guarantees being right. And yes, we should profile at security checks because it is reasonable common sense, not because of prejudice. And I don't think we should be lulled to sleep from profiling Neo-nazis or members of the KKK or any other group that publicly announces an intent to commit violence.

And considering the history of the Christian church I certainly don't want a United States of America run as a theocracy any more than I want Islam to take over the world.

[aldona]

Quote:

If all this is caused by mental instability, like you seem to believe, then Muslims have the highest percentage of mental illness in the whole history of the world, going all the way back to Adam. You think maybe it's something in the water?

I happen to believe that everyone who worships an invisible god in the sky is slightly unstable.

Remember the Jews were the terrorists in the 1st century. Why do you think the Romans had to destroy Jerusalem? It's because radical Jewish believers were following the Old Testaments instructions that they were the chosen people and they had a right to claim it by violence.

Just like any culture Islam has had it's enlightened times. Unfortunately Christian Crusaders destroyed much of it and set in motion the Islam we have today.

If we were to look at Christianity's history, it has far surpassed Islam in violence. Christianity has used violence to spread itself for most of it's history beginning in the first century. It has taken the enlightenment to change Christianity into something less violent.

I mean for crying out loud the final solution is the violent destruction of the earth by the god worshipped by Christians.

Christianity has fought secular enlightenment tooth and nail on every issue from slavery, medical care, women's rights, and the advancement of science. Christianity has never been the leader of societal improvements. It has always obstructed any significant advancement.

Abolitionists were called atheists because they apposed slavery. Women's right to hold office and to have equal pay for equal work, even today, are seen as an agenda by secular humanistic lesbians by the Christian right. Are they any less crazy than Islamic extremists? Just listen to the thinly veiled violence advocated by many Fox News commentators about any group they disagree with. Where are the moderate Christians protesting that garbage?

Wake up people, no label guarantees being right. And yes, we should profile at security checks because it is reasonable common sense, not because of prejudice. And I don't think we should be lulled to sleep from profiling Neo-nazis or members of the KKK or any other group that publicly announces an intent to commit violence.

And considering the history of the Christian church I certainly don't want a United States of America run as a theocracy any more than I want Islam to take over the world.

Thank you

Thank you

Thank you

Finally a voice of reason.

aldona

[Guest]

Quote:

I recommend reading the Qur'an itself. I could show you some websites about how evil the Bible is because of all the evil teachings that the author of the site based on verses taken out of context. Speaking of gospel... did you know that the Biblical Gospels ("injeel") are mentioned in a positive light in the Qur'an?

I know there is a bloody history for a "peaceful people".

I am sure you could produce such websites,I am not interested.

I don't know if what I read was taken out of context,time will tell as I read more.

If all that the Koran can come up with is a favorable mention of the gospels,that is not much to recommend the Koran.

I am sure there are muslims that are not violent,but there is obviously a lot that are. The instruction they are getting seems to lack a little.

Islam has been put on such a high untouchable place that no one must question or object to any of their actions.

I agree Bonnie.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

what would be your solution if I did hate America?

LEAVE!!!

There are plenty of muslim countries you could move to.

I'll vote for that!

[phkrause]

And yet... nobody seems to be especially concerned about a Spanish newspaper bashing Muslims and calling them stupid. Would you feel the same way about a Spanish newspaper saying that Jews are stupid and should not have been let into Europe? Or that Christians are stupid and should not have been let into Europe?

Ah they actually did a few hundred years ago!! Just to let you know. Jews have been allowed in and kicked out of many european countries for more than a 1000 years, and more than that if you want to include the bible years. Just a thought there not trying to disagree with your post. I kind of agree with you.

pk

[GreatLakesGramma]

The Koran was dictated to Mohammed by a demon. It came straight from Satan himself. The Bible, in Revelation, refers to Islam as smoke from the bottomless pit.

Sure, there are some good-sounding things in it. Satan knows what he is doing. He has always mixed his lies in with enough truth to make them palatable. But let's not forget where it really came from. There is no power in Islam to change a sinful heart. Satan's doctrines always appeal to the fallen nature. Those who love hatred and violence will find enough there to support them in their choices. Those who want to be peaceful, "good" people will find just as much support for their human efforts at being good.

[Steve Billiter]

The Koran was dictated to Mohammed by a demon. It came straight from Satan himself. The Bible, in Revelation, refers to Islam as smoke from the bottomless pit.

Sure, there are some good-sounding things in it. Satan knows what he is doing. He has always mixed his lies in with enough truth to make them palatable. But let's not forget where it really came from. There is no power in Islam to change a sinful heart. Satan's doctrines always appeal to the fallen nature. Those who love hatred and violence will find enough there to support them in their choices. Those who want to be peaceful, "good" people will find just as much support for their human efforts at being good.

I like what you say, I too believe the same thing.Muhammad was also a pedophile and a mass murderer among other things. A true prophet of Satan.

The thought of an old man becoming aroused by a child is one of the most disturbing thoughts that makes us cringe as it reminds us of pedophilia and the most despicable people. It is difficult to accept that the Holy Prophet married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64

Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65

Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88

Narrated 'Ursa:

The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Some Muslims claim that it was Abu Bakr who approached Muhammad asking him to marry his daughter. This is of course not true and here is the proof.

Sahih Bukhari 7.18

Narrated 'Ursa:

The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

Arabs were a primitive lot with little rules to abide. Yet they had some code of ethics that they honored scrupulously. For example, although they fought all the year round, they abstained from hostilities during certain holy months of the year. They also considered Mecca to be a holy city and did not make war against it. A adopted son’s wife was deemed to be a daughter in law and they would not marry her. Also it was customary that close friends made a pact of brotherhood and considered each other as true brothers. The Prophet disregarded all of these rules anytime they stood between him and his interests or whims.

Abu Bakr and Muhammad had pledged to each other to be brothers. So according to their costoms Ayesha was supposed to be like a niece to the Holy Prophet. Yet that did not stop him to ask her hand even when she was only six years old.

But this moral relativist Prophet would use the same excuse to reject a woman he did not like.

Sahih Bukhari V.7, B62, N. 37

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

It was said to the Prophet, "Won't you marry the daughter of Hamza?" He said, "She is my foster niece (brother's daughter). "

Hamza and Abu Bakr both were the foster brothers of Muhammad. But Ayesha must have been too pretty for the Prophet to abide by the codes of ethics and custom.

In the following Hadith he confided to Ahesha that he had dreamed of her before soliciting her from her father.

Sahih Bukhari 9.140

Narrated 'Aisha:

Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen

.

Whether Muhammad had actually such dream or he just said it to please Ayesha is not the point. What matters here is that it indicates that Ayesaha was a baby being “carried” by an angel when the Prophet dreamed of her.

There are numerous hadithes that explicitly reveal the age of Ayesha at the time of her marriage. Here are some of them.

Sahih Bukhari 5.236.

Narrated Hisham's father:

Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari 5.234

Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

And in another Hadith we read.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4916 and Number 4917

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

In the above hadith we read that Ayesha was swinging, This is a play of little girls not grown up people. The following Hadith is particularly interesting because it shows that Ayesha was so small that was not aware what was going on when the Holy Prophet “surprised” her by going to her.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90

Narrated Aisha:

When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah's Apostle to me in the forenoon.

Must have been quite a surprise! But the following is also interesting because it demonstrates that she was just a kid playing with her dolls. Pay attention to what the interpreter wrote in the parenthesis. (She was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty)

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151

Narrated 'Aisha:

I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3311

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

The holy Prophet died when he was 63. So he must have married Ayesha when he as 51 and went to her when he was 54.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 33

Narrated 'Aisha:

I never felt so jealous of any woman as I did of Khadija, though she had died three years before the Prophet married me, and that was because I heard him mentioning her too often, and because his Lord had ordered him to give her the glad tidings that she would have a palace in Paradise, made of Qasab and because he used to slaughter a sheep and distribute its meat among her friends.

Khadija died in December of 619 AD. That is two years before Hijra. At that time the Prophet was 51-years-old. So in the same year that Khadija died the prophet married Ayesha and took her to his home 3 years later, i.e. one year after Hijra. But until she grow up he married Umm Salama.

In another part Ayesha claims that as long as she remembers her parents were always Muslims.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 245

Narrated 'Aisha:

(the wife of the Prophet) I never remembered my parents believing in any religion other than the true religion (i.e. Islam),

If Ayesha was older i.e. 16 or 18 as some Muslims claim, she would have remembered the religion of her parents prior to becoming Muslims.

Now someone may still claim that all these hadithes are lies. People are free to say whatever they want. But truth is clear like the Sun for those who have eyes.

No sane person would be aroused by a 9-year-old child. Decent people wince at the thought of this shameful act. Yet some Muslims deny them. The question is why so many followers of Muhammad would fabricate so many false hadithes about the age of Ayisha, which incidentally confirm each other?

I can tell you why people would attribute false miracles to their prophet. Babis believe that Bab started to praise God as soon as he was born. There is a Hadith like that also about Muhammad. Christians believe the birth of the Christ was miraculous and the Jews believe Moses opened a dry passageway through the Red Sea. Believers love to hear these stories. It confirms their faith. There are many absurd miracles attributed to Muhammad in the hadiths, despite the fact that he denied being able to perform any miracles. But why should anyone fabricate a lie about the age of Ayisha that would portray his Prophet as a pedophile?

Controversies About the Age of Ayesha.

Moral Evaluations of the Marriage of the Prophet with Ayesha

When we say Muhammad had sex with 9 year old child, Muslims brush it away and bring all sorts of excuses to justify this shameful act. This is the nature of blind faith and cognitive dissonance. Maybe by visualizing it, some of them will would come to their senses and realize how evil this fiend they call prophet, was. There is not a single proof that this man was a prophet while there are tons of evidences that he was an evil man.

For conclusive evidence that Muhammad was a pedophile, please see this.

Women in Islam Categorized Apostasy Files WIVES OF MOHAMMAD Religion Abu Bakr Abu-Dawud Book Muhammad Person Relation Quotation Um Ruman

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http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha.htm

[SivartM]

Ah they actually did a few hundred years ago!! Just to let you know. Jews have been allowed in and kicked out of many european countries for more than a 1000 years, and more than that if you want to include the bible years. Just a thought there not trying to disagree with your post. I kind of agree with you.

pk

Exactly, and was it a good thing for countries to kick people out because of their religion? We wouldn't like it at all if we were the ones being rejected.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

Ah they actually did a few hundred years ago!! Just to let you know. Jews have been allowed in and kicked out of many european countries for more than a 1000 years, and more than that if you want to include the bible years. Just a thought there not trying to disagree with your post. I kind of agree with you.

pk

Exactly, and was it a good thing for countries to kick people out because of their religion? We wouldn't like it at all if we were the ones being rejected.

You make a very good point sivart

pk

[bonnie]

Quote:

Exactly, and was it a good thing for countries to kick people out because of their religion? We wouldn't like it at all if we were the ones being rejected.

And who is being kicked out?

[Steve Billiter]

Do you guys know where all of this is going? There is a relatively new phenomenon among some Christian groups in America. It's sometimes referred to as "Christian Jihadism".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jul/14/achristianjihad

The rationales come from the OT where God instructed the Israelites to go into the various heathen lands they were passing through, overwhelm them and in some cases initiate a holocaust.

All of this was done in the name of God. For some (notice I say some) Muslims, their Jihad is predicated by an exhortation from the Koran to kill the infidels. It's as if we're watching a mirror image of historical events.

It's sad, but killing in the name of God has been and will be, going on for a long time!

I'm curious? How do Adventists view killing religiously motivated terrorists who want to kill us?

Alex

I can't speak for other Adventists, but this is what the NT teaches.Putting it into practice is different than knowing about it.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Jas 5:4 Behold, the hire of the laborers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, cries: and the cries of them who have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of hosts.

Jas 5:5 You have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; you have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

Jas 5:6 You have condemned and killed the just; and he does not resist you.

Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, and has long patience for it, until he receives the early and latter rain.

Jas 5:8 Be also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draws near.

There is a huge difference in what God commands to do, and what misguided men in justification of misapplied Bible texts think is right.

Had God not sent the flood in mercy to the world, the earth would have been so filled with evil and violence that soon the moral image of God would have been erased, and Satan has full reign of all the earths inhabitants, thus seriously impeding the plan of salvation.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD.

Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isa 55:10 For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and returns not there, but waters the earth, and makes it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

[SivartM]

Quote:

Exactly, and was it a good thing for countries to kick people out because of their religion? We wouldn't like it at all if we were the ones being rejected.

And who is being kicked out?

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: abelisle

Do you guys know where all of this is going? There is a relatively new phenomenon among some Christian groups in America. It's sometimes referred to as "Christian Jihadism".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jul/14/achristianjihad

The rationales come from the OT where God instructed the Israelites to go into the various heathen lands they were passing through, overwhelm them and in some cases initiate a holocaust.

All of this was done in the name of God. For some (notice I say some) Muslims, their Jihad is predicated by an exhortation from the Koran to kill the infidels. It's as if we're watching a mirror image of historical events.

It's sad, but killing in the name of God has been and will be, going on for a long time!

I'm curious? How do Adventists view killing religiously motivated terrorists who want to kill us?

Alex

I can't speak for other Adventists, but this is what the NT teaches.Putting it into practice is different than knowing about it.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Jas 5:4 Behold, the hire of the laborers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, cries: and the cries of them who have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of hosts.

Jas 5:5 You have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; you have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

Jas 5:6 You have condemned and killed the just; and he does not resist you.

Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, and has long patience for it, until he receives the early and latter rain.

Jas 5:8 Be also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draws near.

There is a huge difference in what God commands to do, and what misguided men in justification of misapplied Bible texts think is right.

Had God not sent the flood in mercy to the world, the earth would have been so filled with evil and violence that soon the moral image of God would have been erased, and Satan has full reign of all the earths inhabitants, thus seriously impeding the plan of salvation.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD.

Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Isa 55:10 For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and returns not there, but waters the earth, and makes it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

You know Steve, Alex makes some very good points. I also agree with you that many interpret what they read from the Bible, by taking statements out of context. I've always believe that God would've fought for the Israelites had they really listened to what he had to say to them. If you remember the time that God enlistened Gideon, he eventual got the amount of troops down to 300 men. And they jump how many men? Lots, but I believe that Gideons men didn't do much killing, God's angels did all of that. And there are other times as well. Also that time that he had some army killing each other. I think when we allow God to do things for us, there isn't anything that he can't do.

pk

[bonnie]

Quote:

I like what you say, I too believe the same thing.Muhammad was also a pedophile and a mass murderer among other things. A true prophet of Satan.

I can't say for sure as I am neither muslim or a immigrant. I think if I were I would rather have someone think I was rude and demanding than following and revering a founder that you say was a pedophile. Maybe this is as applicable here as anything I have said........

Any Muslims that read this tirade against perhaps what a few of them may have done will be disgusted by the wording of your "rules" that insinuate they themselves may do these things.

It's really hard to modify behavior, or to create good will among the earth's neighbors. by using strong vinegar.

The thought of an old man becoming aroused by a child is one of the most disturbing thoughts that makes us cringe as it reminds us of pedophilia and the most despicable people. It is difficult to accept that the Holy Prophet married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.

How can this be with a religion that somewhat mirrors and at times seems superior to what we believe are biblical beliefs.

[cardw]

Quote:

There is a huge difference in what God commands to do, and what misguided men in justification of misapplied Bible texts think is right.

Apparently god commanded the Israelites to kill every person of their enemies, except for the virgins, which they were allowed to rape. Apparently god commanded Moses to stone a man for gathering sticks on the Sabbath. Apparently god commanded Josiah to sacrifice the rival priests on their own altars because they were sacrificing in the wrong place, and the Bible writes that he was the greatest king of Israel.

The Bible presents just as crazy of a god as the Koran. They are both shallow examples of morality. I think Thomas Jefferson hits the nail on the head with these quotes...

The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814

Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Mrs. Samuel H. Smith, August, 6, 1816

[phkrause]

They were not allowed to rape, the leaders didn't take enough control. When God allowed there enemies to capture them he didn't intend them to do this either. That is one reason why he punished them.

pk

[Guest]

I received the following email from a friend this week that is extremely interesting. The email noted that the information was adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.

At the end of this article I have a very special message from President Obama himself on this subject. A must view!!!

"Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components. Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

Here's how it works: As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

United States -- Muslim 0.6%

Australia -- Muslim 1.5%

Canada -- Muslim 1.9%

China -- Muslim 1.8%

Italy -- Muslim 1.5%

Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%

Germany -- Muslim 3.7%

United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%

Spain -- Muslim 4%

Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%

Philippines -- 5%

Sweden -- Muslim 5%

Switzerland -- Muslim 4..3%

The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%

Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%

India -- Muslim 13.4%

Israel -- Muslim 16%

Kenya -- Muslim 10%

Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%

Chad -- Muslim 53.1%

Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%

Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%

Qatar -- Muslim 77..5%

Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%

Egypt -- Muslim 90%

Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%

Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%

Iran -- Muslim 98%

Iraq -- Muslim 97%

Jordan -- Muslim 92%

Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%

Pakistan -- Muslim 97%

Palestine -- Muslim 99%

Syria -- Muslim 90%

Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%

Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%

United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%

Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%

Somalia -- Muslim 100%

Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel.' -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century." Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.

The email continued: "Well, boys and girls, today we are letting the fox guard the henhouse. The wolves will be herding the sheep! Obama appoints two devout Muslims to Homeland Security posts. Doesn't this make you feel safer already?

Obama and Janet Napolitano appoint Arif Alikhan, a devout Muslim, as Assistant Secretary for Policy Development.

DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim who was born in Damascus, Syria, as ADC National Executive Director as a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).

NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified as a devout Catholic, a devout Jew or a devout Protestant? Just wondering.

Devout Muslims are being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions? Doesn't this make you feel safer already?? That should make the U.S. homeland much safer, huh!! Was it not 'Devout Muslim men' that flew planes into U.S. buildings 8 years ago? Was it not a Devout Muslim who killed 13 at Fort Hood?"

If you have any doubts on Islam's role in the United States, maybe you will believe President Obama. Watch and listen to his message to us about Islam below:

[cardw]

Quote:

NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified as a devout Catholic, a devout Jew or a devout Protestant? Just wondering.

President Kennedy created quite a controversy being Catholic.

While I agree that Islam is harmful and dangerous, I would like to point out that any theocracy will do similar things. Old Testament Israel was a terrible place to be. It was just as oppressive as Islam to women and non Jews.

Christianity has a terrible record of killing, witch burning, and oppression.

I think the point is that religion is harmful. It is very difficult to tell the difference between a radical religious person and insanity.

[phkrause]

I received the following email from a friend this week that is extremely interesting. The email noted that the information was adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.

At the end of this article I have a very special message from President Obama himself on this subject. A must view!!!

"Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components. Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

Here's how it works: As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

United States -- Muslim 0.6%

Australia -- Muslim 1.5%

Canada -- Muslim 1.9%

China -- Muslim 1.8%

Italy -- Muslim 1.5%

Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%

Germany -- Muslim 3.7%

United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%

Spain -- Muslim 4%

Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%

Philippines -- 5%

Sweden -- Muslim 5%

Switzerland -- Muslim 4..3%

The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%

Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%

India -- Muslim 13.4%

Israel -- Muslim 16%

Kenya -- Muslim 10%

Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%

Chad -- Muslim 53.1%

Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%

Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%

Qatar -- Muslim 77..5%

Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%

Egypt -- Muslim 90%

Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%

Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%

Iran -- Muslim 98%

Iraq -- Muslim 97%

Jordan -- Muslim 92%

Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%

Pakistan -- Muslim 97%

Palestine -- Muslim 99%

Syria -- Muslim 90%

Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%

Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%

United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%

Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%

Somalia -- Muslim 100%

Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel.' -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century." Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.

The email continued: "Well, boys and girls, today we are letting the fox guard the henhouse. The wolves will be herding the sheep! Obama appoints two devout Muslims to Homeland Security posts. Doesn't this make you feel safer already?

Obama and Janet Napolitano appoint Arif Alikhan, a devout Muslim, as Assistant Secretary for Policy Development.

DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore in Kareem Shora, a devout Muslim who was born in Damascus, Syria, as ADC National Executive Director as a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).

NOTE: Has anyone ever heard a new government official being identified as a devout Catholic, a devout Jew or a devout Protestant? Just wondering.

Devout Muslims are being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions? Doesn't this make you feel safer already?? That should make the U.S. homeland much safer, huh!! Was it not 'Devout Muslim men' that flew planes into U.S. buildings 8 years ago? Was it not a Devout Muslim who killed 13 at Fort Hood?"

If you have any doubts on Islam's role in the United States, maybe you will believe President Obama. Watch and listen to his message to us about Islam below:

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Your post is interesting, but the video is very much a spin of the facts. Taking things out of context doesn't help the what he is trying to persent. I would be much more inclined to believe things that are in context, and not spun. Because the way they edited this video, they can make it say anthing they want. I do agree that Islam has shown that it is violent, but like card mention no different than many other religions in the past. They have all done the same. We just happen to be living in the period that Islam is rearing its ugly head.

pk

[cardw]

Quote:

Devout Muslims are being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions? Doesn't this make you feel safer already?? That should make the U.S. homeland much safer, huh!! Was it not 'Devout Muslim men' that flew planes into U.S. buildings 8 years ago? Was it not a Devout Muslim who killed 13 at Fort Hood?"

This type of reasoning generally comes from those that believe that the United States is a Christian nation. Many Christian groups openly state that their objective is to turn this nation into a Christian theocracy. They misrepresent the founding father's positions on god and religion.

Now I would like to point out when 23 year old Nigerian Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab tried to set off a bomb on an airplane on Christmas day, that it was a devout Muslim, his father, that warned US officials.

Quote:

If you have any doubts on Islam's role in the United States, maybe you will believe President Obama. Watch and listen to his message to us about Islam below:

This is simply junk and should never even be given the time of day. It really saddens me that anyone gives this serious attention and it is tabloid news agencies, like Fox news, that prey on the ignorance and gullibility of the American public simply to gain ratings.

Now if you would simply think about this for a moment, one could draw a different picture. Obama has stated that his policy is going to emphasize firmness of purpose with dialog. By recognizing the religious beliefs of the audience and his connection with them he can hopefully gain some influence with them. If this can save lives, it is certainly worth a try.

I would guess that Obama is some form of liberal protestant and/or agnostic. Remember his mother was an atheist. He is simply doing what politicians are good at doing and he is trying to use identification to get past religious bias.

So quit spreading these types of exaggerated paranoia. These lies are destructive and frankly discouraging to see in what one would hope was an enlightened age.

[doug yowell]

RICHARD

WOW this is something that every one should read

dgrimm60

A little late but I, too, agree!!!

[doug yowell]

Quote:

Devout Muslims are being appointed to critical Homeland Security positions? Doesn't this make you feel safer already?? That should make the U.S. homeland much safer, huh!! Was it not 'Devout Muslim men' that flew planes into U.S. buildings 8 years ago? Was it not a Devout Muslim who killed 13 at Fort Hood?"

This type of reasoning generally comes from those that believe that the United States is a Christian nation. Many Christian groups openly state that their objective is to turn this nation into a Christian theocracy. They misrepresent the founding father's positions on god and religion.

Now I would like to point out when 23 year old Nigerian Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab tried to set off a bomb on an airplane on Christmas day, that it was a devout Muslim, his father, that warned US officials.

Quote:

If you have any doubts on Islam's role in the United States, maybe you will believe President Obama. Watch and listen to his message to us about Islam below:

This is simply junk and should never even be given the time of day. It really saddens me that anyone gives this serious attention and it is tabloid news agencies, like Fox news, that prey on the ignorance and gullibility of the American public simply to gain ratings.

Now if you would simply think about this for a moment, one could draw a different picture. Obama has stated that his policy is going to emphasize firmness of purpose with dialog. By recognizing the religious beliefs of the audience and his connection with them he can hopefully gain some influence with them. If this can save lives, it is certainly worth a try.

I would guess that Obama is some form of liberal protestant and/or agnostic. Remember his mother was an atheist. He is simply doing what politicians are good at doing and he is trying to use identification to get past religious bias.

So quit spreading these types of exaggerated paranoia. These lies are destructive and frankly discouraging to see in what one would hope was an enlightened age.

cardw, Don't you think it's about time the "good" Muslims did something to clear up the damage that the "bad" Muslims have inflicted on their reputation? Isn't it the responsibility of the Muslems to do their own house cleaning and restore their moral credibility to the world?

[Guest]

cardw, Don't you think it's about time the "good" Muslims did something to clear up the damage that the "bad" Muslims have inflicted on their reputation? Isn't it the responsibility of the Muslems to do their own house cleaning and restore their moral credibility to the world?

Excellent point Doug.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

cardw, Don't you think it's about time the "good" Muslims did something to clear up the damage that the "bad" Muslims have inflicted on their reputation? Isn't it the responsibility of the Muslems to do their own house cleaning and restore their moral credibility to the world?

Excellent point Doug.

Muslims as a whole have become a protected group. As a group they have little wish to assimilate only wanting what this country will give them because they are muslim. Saying so will usually bring condemnation.

How many times is the SDA religion spoken against by SDA's on a SDA forum? Most seem to agree we are a pretty rotten people living in a pretty rotten country.

If half of same were said concerning the muslim faith it would cause a pretty big condemnation.

They form their own communities and really don't want anyone interfering with that. They want to live here in the land of plenty and keep the very culture they ran away from. We house them,feed them,clothe their children,educate them and provide the best of medical care.

Those that do work are given 7 years of no taxes. If the jobs they have accepted conflicts with their religious beliefs,they complain and often file lawsuits that we the taxpayer pays for.Never occurs to them or those that so staunchly defend their every demand that maybe they need to do what the rest of us do. Find a job that does not require us to go against our religious principals.

Instead they will do their best to label a company or business as racially or religiously intolerant of muslims.

In many larger cities muslims make up 5% of the population and can use 40-50% of welfare dollars. Many cities struggle to keep up with the demand on their resources.

It is not only the US that have been overwhelmed with muslims and their demands. I think it was Britain that was going to or did expel over 75,000 muslims that abused their system.

Those that come here should have some desire to assimilate into the US,not just reproduce what they left except for the generous aid given.

Muslims that are against terrorism need to speak out as forcefully as they do when "demanding the US honor their religious principals".They speak very loudly and clearly then.

[bonnie]

Mn deals with this all the time,Maybe because of the large influx of somalia muslims. Nice work if you can get it

Sharia's Plump Target in Minnesota

A Minnesota food-processing plant and an employment agency just knuckled under in a religious-discrimination lawsuit brought by 156 Somali Muslims.

Bias suits settled with Gold'n Plump, job agency

Muslim workers receive $1.35 million under a religious discrimination settlement.

Last update: March 31, 2009 - 11:00 PM

A federal judge gave approval for Gold'n Plump Inc. and an employment agency to pay $1.35 million to settle lawsuits alleging religious discrimination against Muslims at a chicken processing plant in Cold Spring, Minn.

The money will go to 128 Somali Muslims who claim that St. Cloud-based Gold'n Plump violated their religious rights by refusing to allow them prayer breaks during work hours, and to another 28 workers who said a St. Paul employment agency, the Work Connection Inc., required them to sign forms acknowledging they would be required to handle pork.

The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission investigated the allegations and said it found cause to believe discrimination occurred, according to lawsuits filed last year.

In a settlement approved Tuesday by U.S. Magistrate Judge Jeanne Graham, Gold'n Plump will add a paid break during the second half of each shift to accommodate Muslim employees who wish to pray. The break is in addition to one early in the shift and lunch breaks required by law.

The Work Connection has agreed to provide offers of employment to the 28 job seekers who were turned away for not signing the "pork form."

The $1.35 million settlement includes $985,000 for legal costs and $365,000 in cash payments to the 156 workers.

CHRIS SERRES

#

It’s important to keep in mind that this was a settlement, not the result of a trial on the merits. The court’s opinion approving the settlement found that Gold’n Plump and the employment agency were forced to settle because the expenses of proceeding with the case would have risked financial disaster.

A major factor motivating TWC and Gold’n Plump to settle was the adverse effect of litigation costs on their insurance policy limits. Both Gold’n Plump and TWC had liability insurance for the types of claims asserted in this case, but the

policies contained provisions that reduced the amount of money available to pay a judgment as litigation expenses increased. Thus, as litigation proceeded, the assets of TWC and Gold’n Plump were increasingly exposed. Furthermore, TWC’s and Gold’n Plump’s attorneys’ fees were being paid from the same pool of insurance money that was potentially available to pay a judgment, and further litigation would have continually eroded this fund.

Trial lawyers strategize for just these kinds of advantages. They trawl for cases where the costs of litigation force defendants to settle even where there’s no likelihood a jury is going to find any wrongdoing.