SivartM Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Isn't this thread rather old to be moderated? If anyone was going to be reprimanding anyone, shouldn't it have been done before the thread died? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 6, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 6, 2010 (I'm ignoring the whole moderation spat and posting on topic ) It certainly is a relative rather than an absolute phenomenon. This is the abstract of a paper from 2009: Quote: The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers University of Pennsylvania Research) May 2009 NBER Working Paper No. w14969 Abstract: By many objective measures the lives of women in the United States have improved over the past 35 years, yet we show that measures of subjective well-being indicate that women's happiness has declined both absolutely and relative to men. The paradox of women's declining relative well-being is found across various datasets, measures of subjective well-being, and is pervasive across demographic groups and industrialized countries. Relative declines in female happiness have eroded a gender gap in happiness in which women in the 1970s typically reported higher subjective well-being than did men. These declines have continued and a new gender gap is emerging -- one with higher subjective well-being for men. So initially women were a lot happier than men, and that has now declined to parity, or women being slightly less happy than men. Maybe we need a thread on why so many men are unhappy? I suspect the bottom line is nothing to do with feminism: it's to do with a culture that fails to teach people that happiness is a choice, and that makes happiness contingent on achievements and possessions. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 all the way around Bravus. :) Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 i think i can probably repost this now.... Why are so many women unhappy? Are men the reason? Albert Mohler shares an insightful commentary on this delicate topic. You can read it this week's Adventist Review. http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=3123 Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 6, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 6, 2010 ... Any movement which causes the damage which has come as the result of feminism is not of God. No-fault divorce is the result of feminism, and it has brought pain and misery. All the current studies are now indicating that divorce, rather than being the savior from unhappiness, is now discerned for its real character. It has become the source of much pain and hardship which lasts not for a few short years. It affects all involved including the children way into their adult years. And those who have gotten divorces after five years wished they had stayed with their first mates. Whereas, those who stayed were much happier five years later. I agree with a great deal of your post, and particularly with the above. Divorce is almost always a tragic thing and seldom the best solution in the long run. Let me give two examples close to home-- (1) I know personally-- from people in my own family-- that divorce is not the answer. On the one hand, a man and woman with children divorce on account of unfaithfulness on the part of one of the spouses. The husband wanted to keep the marriage, and the wife decided after talking to a counselor that they would both get back together. (They had young children together.) But within 24 hours of deciding to get back together, the wife changed the decision. This couple got a divorse. 26 years later, the husband is happily married to another woman, and they have two children, now grown. Meanwhile the former wife-- who insisted on divoce, and whose second husband died shortly after their marriage about 15 years ago--is alone and lonely and wishes a different decision had been made. She misses her first husband. The ex-husband is glad he married his current wife and has his children from that marriage, but he and the ex-wife talk about "what if" and both wish they hadn't made those stupid mistakes that led to their divorece, which was so hard on their children, especially on the son, who is angry at the mother's decision to divorce the dad. A tragic situation for all. She wishes she had stayed and let God help her work things out. 2) A woman finds her husband in an incestuous relationship with their daughter, and she eventually reports him to the police. He does time in jail for the crime. They have a very rocky marriage for about 30 years. He is very difficult to get along with, but they stick it out. Now he is a Christian and a changed man and they are happy together. (By the way, the daughter is a happily married woman, well adjusted, a devoted Seventh-day Adventist, and has children of her own.) This is not to say that divorce is always a bad idea, but it is almost always bad and I don't think it's ever God's first choice of how to solve problems. There are wonderful, character-building lessons to be learned from working and praying about family problems, and not giving up on each other. That's what God does. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Excellent Post John317. A good book on this topic is "The Divorce Myth" by J. Carl Laney. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted July 6, 2010 Members Share Posted July 6, 2010 all the way around Bravus. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted July 6, 2010 Members Share Posted July 6, 2010 But this topic is Townhall which has no moderator. Tom not disputing you, but as long as I can remember I believe that John has been Moderator here? I could be wrong though! Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 6, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 6, 2010 Excellent Post John317. A good book on this topic is "The Divorce Myth" by J. Carl Laney. Sounds like a book I ought to read. Thanks. :-) Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Also replying to The Searcher's statement that feminism causes no-fault divorce: I'm pretty sure that feminism is not behind no-fault divorces. Feminism didn't exist in Jesus' time, yet men (not women, of course) somehow managed to get divorces for the most trivial reasons. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 6, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 6, 2010 Quote: SivartM: Isn't this thread rather old to be moderated? If anyone was going to be reprimanding anyone, shouldn't it have been done before the thread died? I probably should delete or edit this SivartM, but I'm going to let it pass and answer your question: I did not know about what was going on on this thread because I was involved in discussing other subjects, but I noticed some moderators who were upset at what was happening on this thread, so I came to look for myself. This discussion has just been resurrected from the grave. Please get involved in a constructive way if you like. As I said earlier, don't "debate" and "argue" about the moderation on the public threads. If you have something along that line you want to say to me, send me a PM. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 6, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 6, 2010 I think you raise some very good and legitimate points, Bravus. They're no doubt very accurate objections to the idea that women per se are "unhappy" today. Like you, I know a lot of happy women. But it's hard to determine something like this on the basis of personal experience alone. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Maybe we should focus on why specific people are happy or unhappy rather than assuming that entire groups of people are mostly the same and have the same reasons for being so. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Maybe we should focus on why specific people are happy or unhappy rather than assuming that entire groups of people are mostly the same and have the same reasons for being so. Now There's a brilliant idea. There's far to much labeling in our church. Even with women .... we try to label them into one group or another and define what they can do and can't. I think I'll trust God to put them where they are to be placed. God placed a woman to be our prophet ... and I think He did a good job there. We can trust Him to continue to do this for our good if we will but trust Him. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 7, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2010 Quick Response to all: Here are some thoughts on the topic. "Perhaps the subordination of women occurred as a result of the fall rather than as a part of God's creation (Gen. 3:16); just as we seek to overcome the other effects of the fall, we should seek to overcome the subordination of women." It may also be argued "that biblical principles promote equlity (Gen. 1:27-28; Gal. 3:28)." The Bible doesn't teach the "subordination of women" and neither do the writings of Ellen White. I know that is some people's view of it, but it doesn't come from the Bible. It couldn't have been, because it required both the man and the woman together in order for "man," or "mankind," to be in God's image. The male by himself is not a full image of God, and neither is the female. Also, it's very plain that God didn't give Adam an inferior gift when He gave Eve to him as his "helper," or "sustainer." It says that God gave him "a helper appropriate or suitable for him." If she was inferior to Adam, we would be saying God gave him an inferior companion. How could Adam love an inferior creature as a companion? He couldn't, and neither can we. I really believe God gave Adam the best and most beautiful of His creations. The Bible teaches that Eve was the equal of Adam and that women are the equal of men. I think what confuses some is that they think that if women are equal with men, they ought to do the same things. God made Eve equal with Adam as a human being, but He assigned them different responsibilies and roles. Our society doesn't understand or accept this, but that's clearly the biblical view, as it is also Ellen White's. Your thoughts? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 7, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2010 In general. But if there's some one simple thing we can do that would help to make *lots* of people happier than they are... And, IMO, that's telling them what we've told our girls all their lives: you choose your emotions. Can't choose your circumstances, but can choose your reactions, and it's there that happiness lies. 'The pursuit of happiness' is not a great phrase, IMO, because it suggests that it's something that needs to be chased down. But it's something that's chosen, day by day and moment by moment. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 7, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2010 Can't choose your circumstances, but can choose your reactions, and it's there that happiness lies. 'The pursuit of happiness' is not a great phrase, IMO, because it suggests that it's something that needs to be chased down. But it's something that's chosen, day by day and moment by moment. This is exactly what I was thinking, Bravus. A well-known psychologist gave some talks to a college class once in which he told about how he escaped depression. He said that he just started talking and acting happy on the basis of his will-power, and pretty soon he actually began to feel happy. On the other hand, if you talk and act depressed, your words and actions will have their effect. He determined not to let his emotions control his thinking and his mind. He'd come close to suicide from long depression, and this is how he got out of it. He said he had seen many depressed people do the same thing. I used the same principles in dealing with my own particular problems. It works. Our words and our choices have power. It's an idea that existentialists find attractive, and it is also supported by the Bible. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 7, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2010 Quote: SivartM: Maybe we should focus on why specific people are happy or unhappy rather than assuming that entire groups of people are mostly the same and have the same reasons for being so. OK, very good. Lead the way, or start us on that trail. By the way, did you see my post on this same page concerning about how a man can make his wife happy? If not, scroll up. Let me know what you think. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 I thought your list was good. Okay, so are you happy? Why or why not? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 7, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2010 Quote: Tom Wetmore: The crux of the problem has been simply stated... Now, you women folk just get back to work... Is this a fair and reasonable reflection of the views of anyone on this thread? Who has said anything like that on this discussion? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted July 7, 2010 Moderators Share Posted July 7, 2010 Quote: SivartM: I thought your list was good. Okay, so are you happy? Why or why not? There are unhappy people who seem to have everything that would make a person happy. But then there are happy people who you would think shouldn't be happy because of their circumstances. I know this is going to sound "trite" to some people, but I believe the secret of true joy (distinguished from being "happy") is having Christ in the life. In other words, "joy" doesn't require that everything in life be going my way. That would make us slaves of the circumstances. But to answer your question directly: yes, I am "happy" in the way the world views happiness, but more importantly, I am full of joy because of what Jesus has done and is doing in my life. The only way I can explain it is that it's a fruit (or an effect) of the Holy Spirit. That's what I feel. It-- or He--gives me love for everyone and everything. I hope this helps a little to answer your question. If not, come back. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted July 7, 2010 Members Share Posted July 7, 2010 Quote: SivartM: I thought your list was good. Okay, so are you happy? Why or why not? There are unhappy people who seem to have everything that would make a person happy. But then there are happy people who you would think shouldn't be happy because of their circumstances. I know this is going to sound "trite" to some people, but I believe the secret of true joy (distinguished from being "happy") is having Christ in the life. In other words, "joy" doesn't require that everything in life be going my way. That would make us slaves of the circumstances. But to answer your question directly: yes, I am "happy" in the way the world views happiness, but more importantly, I am full of joy because of what Jesus has done and is doing in my life. The only way I can explain it is that it's a fruit (or an effect) of the Holy Spirit. That's what I feel. It-- or He--gives me love for everyone and everything. I hope this helps a little to answer your question. If not, come back. I agree with you John 100%. In our situation right now both my wife and I should be very unhappy. I've been out of work now going on two and a half years. My wife has a compression fracture in her back and right now can't work and is disabled. Short term disability has run out and long term has not OKd her yet. So no real income for about 2 months now. For me unemployment has run out, for my wife who was covering us with HC, that has now ended since she hasn't worked for 4 months. We both made real good money. Wife made over $50 an hour and I made $22 an hour. Now we make $0 an hour all our savings and retirement money is just about gone. But God has been very good to us. I don't really think there is anyway to explain this to anyone. But we are very happy and not depressed one iota. I finally signed up for SS benefits and my wife will do so this month. So will probably have to get out of this house. We were always able to keep up with any expense's, but that's now coming to an end. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 This reminds me of the Adventures in Odyssey episode "Happy Smilers". So why is Crystal unhappy? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Quote: Tom Wetmore: The crux of the problem has been simply stated... Now, you women folk just get back to work... Is this a fair and reasonable reflection of the views of anyone on this thread? Who has said anything like that on this discussion? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 .... In our situation right now both my wife and I should be very unhappy. I've been out of work now going on two and a half years. My wife has a compression fracture in her back and right now can't work and is disabled. Short term disability has run out and long term has not OKd her yet. So no real income for about 2 months now. For me unemployment has run out, for my wife who was covering us with HC, that has now ended since she hasn't worked for 4 months. We both made real good money. Wife made over $50 an hour and I made $22 an hour. Now we make $0 an hour all our savings and retirement money is just about gone. But God has been very good to us. I don't really think there is anyway to explain this to anyone. But we are very happy and not depressed one iota. I finally signed up for SS benefits and my wife will do so this month. So will probably have to get out of this house. We were always able to keep up with any expense's, but that's now coming to an end. oh, im so sorry!! "life" is hitting so many people i know! Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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