Members abelisle Posted February 9, 2010 Members Share Posted February 9, 2010 These interesting articles posit that morality was here first. What do you say? http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100208123625.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080909122749.htm Notice the importance of verbal communication in the communal acceptance of preternatural claims. So, does this also indicate that we are hardwired at birth to be "good" free moral agents? Alex Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Would love to hear your opinions on this, Alex. (Unless of course, you haven't already thought about it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I'd rather wait to hear the orignator of this topic share his opinion first. I'm certain he has ideas of his own. At that point, I'll discuss my thoughts on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted February 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2010 Hi Aubrey! Here's my take on this: Before there was the written word or even the oral word, there was mythology. These stories were man's attempt to explain things he couldn't understand. If one studies mythology as a part of ancient culture, one will find that many myths had at their core moral themes. Usually good won out over evil but not always. It behooved early man to get along with each other in order to survive. Whether they were in large or small clans, families, tribes etc. an implicit or clearly stated moral code helped to insure their survival. Whether or not early humans were hardwired to do good rather than evil, I can't say but common sense and logic would point in the direction of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Then religion comes into being as a way to codify, explain and provide a hopeful future based on the moral codes that are already in existence. Religion comes into being as codified morality. It is also at its essence, an epistemological attempt to justify mythology. As an aside, I would like to posit that spirituality was always in existence since man always worshipped something whether that something was an unknown god or a material object or a platonic ideal. Note: please do not confuse religion with spirituality. They are different even though at times interdependent. So, in summation, I believe morality preceded the creation of the multitude of various religions that presently exist in our world. Alex (I hope this simple explanation will suffice?) Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Hi Aubrey! Here's my take on this: Before there was the written word or even the oral word, there was mythology. How could mythology exist before the oral word? Can there be explanation without communication? Grunting and gesturing, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted February 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2010 Originally Posted By: abelisle Hi Aubrey! Here's my take on this: Before there was the written word or even the oral word, there was mythology. How could mythology exist before the oral word? Can there be explanation without communication? Grunting and gesturing, maybe? karl, Am I not allowed a little bit of highbrow sarcasm? at least a tad bit? Obviously a failed attempt of paraphrasing John 1 Alex Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Originally Posted By: abelisle Hi Aubrey! Here's my take on this: Before there was the written word or even the oral word, there was mythology. How could mythology exist before the oral word? Can there be explanation without communication? Grunting and gesturing, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted February 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2010 karl, With all due respect, there are quite a few people who see God as myth(ology). Sometimes thinking outside of the box is tricky. Alex Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 karl, With all due respect, there are quite a few people who see God as myth(ology). Sometimes thinking outside of the box is tricky. Alex Yes, well.... my apologies for not just jumping into the God-as-a-myth box. Just too fundamentalist, ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Sure does suffice, Alex! I just wanted to hear your opinion first as you are the one who started the thread. I was certain you already had ideas and weren't merely looking for answers to a question you'd yet to resolve in your own mind. I believe that we are hardwired both to do good and to do evil. Through our actions and the consequences of such actions, morality is developed within each of us over time. Even those who believe in no god whatsoever, have an internal sense of morality. In my opinion, religion attempts to answer the bigger questions: Who created us? Is there a creator? Why are we here? Do we have a purpose in life? Is there an after-life? Am I responsible for my own actions? Without an internal sense of morality, I don't think that humans would ever mature enough to get to the bigger questions. For each of us individually, morality comes first, religion afterward. For the human race as a whole, I think it's too difficult to determine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I look at it like this. Morality is impossible without God. Without God, we cannot establish any law of morality. --------------- God created a universe with the Laws of Morality inherent, His morality. So Morality was here before religion. --------------- Here is the gem though. It is only the Christian Worldview that can ultimately make sense of "absolute" morality in humanity. Atheism for instance cannot really explain "absolute morality". It can only provide a "relative morality", which does not explain "morality" as an "abstract law" at all... --------------- So "absolute" morality was here before the first two religions were even expressed by mankind... Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 10, 2010 Members Share Posted February 10, 2010 I look at it like this. Morality is impossible without God. Without God, we cannot establish any law of morality. --------------- God created a universe with the Laws of Morality inherent, His morality. So Morality was here before religion. --------------- Here is the gem though. It is only the Christian Worldview that can ultimately make sense of "absolute" morality in humanity. Atheism for instance cannot really explain "absolute morality". It can only provide a "relative morality", which does not explain "morality" as an "abstract law" at all... --------------- So "absolute" morality was here before the first two religions were even expressed by mankind... Mark :-) I do agree with your thoughts Twilight. I would almost say that when God created A&E and of course the this realm of the universe that we live in, that we did have morality built into us and I would also say that a form of spirituality was also built in to us. I think religion as we know can later. Maybe with Abraham when God called him out to start a people that he could have to show others in the world that there is a God. I do know that within Jewdism (sp) today, not all, there world revolves around God 24/7. For them I believe religion and morality are one. pk Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I do agree with your thoughts Twilight. I would almost say that when God created A&E and of course the this realm of the universe that we live in, that we did have morality built into us and I would also say that a form of spirituality was also built in to us. I think religion as we know can later. Maybe with Abraham when God called him out to start a people that he could have to show others in the world that there is a God. I do know that within Jewdism (sp) today, not all, there world revolves around God 24/7. For them I believe religion and morality are one. pk One needs to have a faith (religion) that there is a Creator Who is the lawgiver, as Law defines morality. Any morality that exists without a supreme Lawgiver would be based on relative events, IE: "You hurt me, therefor I feel that is wrong." Morality with Law (religion) would be a predisposition to abstain from hurting, not based on the need to "see" whether some act would hurt but accepting the possibility would preclude the hurtful behavior. "For I was alive (moral) without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin (immorality) revived, and I died."Romans 7:9 KJV I would suggest the Word clearly points to religion(the preexistence of God)came as a package. "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6 KJV JOY!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 /out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Originally Posted By: Twilight I look at it like this. Morality is impossible without God. Without God, we cannot establish any law of morality. --------------- God created a universe with the Laws of Morality inherent, His morality. So Morality was here before religion. --------------- Here is the gem though. It is only the Christian Worldview that can ultimately make sense of "absolute" morality in humanity. Atheism for instance cannot really explain "absolute morality". It can only provide a "relative morality", which does not explain "morality" as an "abstract law" at all... --------------- So "absolute" morality was here before the first two religions were even expressed by mankind... Mark :-) I do agree with your thoughts Twilight. I would almost say that when God created A&E and of course the this realm of the universe that we live in, that we did have morality built into us and I would also say that a form of spirituality was also built in to us. I think religion as we know can later. Maybe with Abraham when God called him out to start a people that he could have to show others in the world that there is a God. I do know that within Jewdism (sp) today, not all, there world revolves around God 24/7. For them I believe religion and morality are one. pk Have you ever considered that mankind only ever had two religions presented to it? One when Adam opened his eyes and saw Christ. The other when Satan inserted himself into the picture and got Adam and Eve to follow him. Maybe it has always only been two. But Satan keeps trying to mix his religion in with Gods? Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 12, 2010 Members Share Posted February 12, 2010 Have you ever considered that mankind only ever had two religions presented to it? One when Adam opened his eyes and saw Christ. The other when Satan inserted himself into the picture and got Adam and Eve to follow him. Maybe it has always only been two. But Satan keeps trying to mix his religion in with Gods? Mark :-) Interesting points Twilight. pk Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Originally Posted By: Twilight Have you ever considered that mankind only ever had two religions presented to it? But Satan keeps trying to mix his religion in with Gods? Mark :-) Interesting points Twilight. pk Count on it. There is a constant battle to preserve the knowledge of truth because of the constant assault against it. Satan's enmity toward the Word of God in matched only by his enmity to the Word incarnate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Originally Posted By: Twilight Have you ever considered that mankind only ever had two religions presented to it? One when Adam opened his eyes and saw Christ. The other when Satan inserted himself into the picture and got Adam and Eve to follow him. Maybe it has always only been two. But Satan keeps trying to mix his religion in with Gods? Mark :-) Interesting points Twilight. pk You could call them the religion of "love" and the religion of "selfishness" PK... Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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