What did you think of Tiger's Apology?

[Woody]

I was extremely impressed with the tone and content.

He seemed genuine. He seems to repent and to really have a grasp of his problem and took responsibility.

This did not appear to be just about 'business'. I have heard many a person in public life make apologizes ... but this one had fruit. It was a model for the way it should be.

I do hope this change in him will last. He states he will continue with his therapy and not return to golf until he is better centered.

Just my 2 cents.

But ... let's hear your take.

[Robert]

For a season Tiger might say "no" to his desire for sex with other women, but since he is banking on Buddhism he will fail. Why? Buddhism is a legalistic religion that depends on the will of its practitioner to say "no" to the "lust of the flesh". Jesus says "without me you can't do anything" and this includes saying "no" to sexual temptation.

Rob

[Woody]

Good points Rob.

But, I don't see it impossible that he could stop his addiction.

Some people do have a strong will. And I would rate Tiger up there at the top. If it is possible ... I think he is one who could do it.

[Robert]

Some people do have a strong will. And I would rate Tiger up there at the top. If it is possible ... I think he is one who could do it.

He will either stop for a "season" until his will is weakened by his nature or he will trade off one sin for another. Why? Because without Christ it is impossible to do any good thing. Yes, he might stop, but the motive will always be self-centered. He might stop so he won't lose all those sponsors...or he wants to appear good in front of his fans.

[Gail]

He does have some motivation, if the prospect of losing all that is dear to you is a motivation.

If he remains single, it's going to be a difficult journey. He will need a lot of support!

[Robert]

He does have some motivation, if the prospect of losing all that is dear to you is a motivation.

[Liz]

I don't really know why he needed to publicly apologize. He didn't wrong any of us, it's not like we voted him into an office and then he betrayed that trust by using tax dollars to do bad things. He betrayed his marital vows. He may have hurt his public image, but after a really good golf season, I doubt even that would be too tarnished. So the apology is confusing me, unless he needed to do it for his treatment.

As a fellow human being, I wish him the best of luck in his treatment and in his personal life.

[Robert]

Some people do have a strong will. And I would rate Tiger up there at the top. If it is possible ... I think he is one who could do it.

But human nature is stronger than the will. Paul: Romans 7:18 For I will to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I will to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin [selfishness] living in me that does it.

[Robert]

I don't really know why he needed to publicly apologize. He didn't wrong any of us,

Me? no...but his fans, yes....He built his image on being a good, moral family man. A lot of kids and adults looked up to him. IT was a lie, so yes he needs to apologize to them.

[Robert]

Let's not forget he just didn't slip up....He had sex with over 10 women....This is living for the flesh as a lifestyle.

You can feel sorry for him all you want, but it won't help. He needs Christ...not Buddhism! Buddhism is a dead religion for it depends on the will.

In Christianity we have been delivered from under law. And as we remain in God's love we learn to walk in the spirit and then Christ can say "no" to the desires of the flesh through us....

But Buddhism is about making one's self selfless. It's impossible....

Rob

[Robert]

And, BTW, all these women that cheated with Tiger knew that he was a married man. Did that stop them? Didn't they care about hurting his wife? No! Why not? They loved themselves more....They put a knife in her back...and her kids too! They need to apologize for their sexual sins....Don't hold your breath....

Rob

[Robert]

It takes two to cheat. Yes, sometimes the other gender doesn't know the whole story, but that's a good argument to waiting until marriage for sex. Then folks would'nt get hurt.

But these women had to know....Not unless they came from Venus. teehe

[Gail]

Thanks, Rob- for you have just reminded us of the deceitfulness of the heart and the seriousness of sin. It is a spiritual war we are in!

And I agree with you, that only Christ can break these chains.

[Robert]

Not letting Tiger off, but like I said, it takes two. Here are 8 of the women:

[Robert]

ROBERT

I THINK men or from MARS and women or from VENUS

smile smile smile smile smile

dgrimm60

Correction has been processed.

Commander Data

[Robert]

ROBERT

WELL that is interesting those pictures of the women

that went to bed with TIGER WOODS

so there much have been more than 8 women???

dgrimm60

Some estimates go into the teens...i.e., 13, 14...

[Gerr]

Quote:

He will need a lot of support!

Would those 8 that Robert showed be enought?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I agree with Liz. He shouldn't have had to apologize publicly. I don't really care about his sex life.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

The Validity of "Sexual Addiction": Chasing a Tiger

Nassir Ghaemi, MD, Psychiatry/Mental Health from Medscape Blogs

Everyone is writing about Tiger Woods, and I am not at all inclined to join in - but I suppose I will. The casual use of the concept of "sexual addiction" in relation to his recent diagnosis and treatment may warrant some internal dialogue among psychiatrists. I write these notes not to persuade but to raise questions and see if other colleagues are not wondering similarly.

What is sex addiction all about? I understand hypersexuality, and I understand addiction, but I am not sure I understand sex addiction.

As a psychiatrist, I would first want to apply here the concept of a hierarchy of diagnoses. So a high amount of sexual activity could certainly occur with many conditions, and the concept of a sex addiction, if valid, would have to be the last thing one would diagnose - a diagnosis of exclusion since it could happen with so many other things. First on everyone's list of causes of high sexual activity, I would think, should be mania, or bipolar disorder. Next, or right with it, would be obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD), with sexual content; this is quite common. Then perhaps PTSD with sexual trauma (with later hypersexuality in some people), substance abuse (e.g., amphetamine, steroid, or testosterone abuse), and frontal lobe syndrome. Some depressed individuals also appear to engage in sexual activity, not because of aroused libido, but out of a wish to come out of their isolation and engage with others, even if only physically.

Sexual addiction, as a concept, though, would seem to represent nothing but sex: no mania, nor PTSD, nor substance use, nor other causes. Addiction, as a concept, implies an intense feeling of acute pleasure, followed by a wish to repeat, and, often, tolerance and withdrawal. In this context, tolerance would mean that the more one experienced sex, the less pleasurable it would be; and withdrawal would mean that when abstinence occurred, one experienced painful psychological or physical symptoms (perhaps depression and anxiety). Addiction also implies something that perhaps begins as an experiment, later becomes a habit, and then becomes autonomous. Neurobiologically, addictions tend to involve, we think, activation of the dopaminergic pleasure centers of the brain. Can lots of sex take on this pattern?

It seems difficult to me to distinguish OCD from so-called sexual addiction; perhaps the main difference would be that the individual is bothered by his behavior in one case (OCD) and not the other (addiction); yet this single minor subjective difference would seem to be a small feature upon which to base an entire diagnostic entity. Indeed, there appear to exist many cases of OCD without insight, that is, OCD in which the patient is not much bothered by his or her symptoms. OCD is not, traditional teaching notwithstanding, uniformly characterized by presence of insight (better phrasing than the old ego-dystonic term, in my view).

One reputable website defines sexual addiction as "a progressive intimacy disorder characterized by compulsive sexual thoughts and acts." DSM's definition, under paraphilias, as sexual disorders NOS includes the following ideas: "compulsive searching for multiple partners, compulsive fixation on an unattainable partner, compulsive masturbation, compulsive love relationships and compulsive sexuality in a relationship." This kind of definition seems quite hard to distinguish from OCD with sexual content.

The difference in terminology is important; the idea of sexual addiction would seem to imply analogies to substance abuse: 12 step programs, a limited role for medications, Malibu resorts. The OCD concept would put medications central to the treatment, and make the problem more biological in origin and pathogenesis, rather than simply habit gone awry.

Where we are uncertain, I would prefer the term sexual paraphilia, so as to remain neutral as to the addiction versus OCD dichotomy. Dr. Martin Kafka, a specialist in paraphilias, with whom I have shared patients and whose expertise is large, recently suggested a new DSM category of "Hypersexual disorder", which presumes carefully first ruling out other conditions like OCD and bipolar disorder hierarchically. Though I know he practices this way, I fear that the public at large, and the average clinician, will be too democratic, and too little hierarchical, and forget that such a diagnosis, though perhaps not useless, is one of exclusion, and last resort.

If individuals like Tiger Woods have a variety of OCD, it could be that enough serotonergic antidepressant would knock out their libido or their OCD, or both, to keep them from ruining their lives. But 12 step programs might be tenuously utile.

I don't know the right answer, but it seems to me that this is yet another part of psychiatry where the lapidary use of popular phrases hardly clarifies.

[Gail]

So then, would it be a medical issue or a moral issue? Should the morality of it even be considered?

Who would even be the best to make that judgment call?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I think Tiger might have a medical issue, especially after reading that Medscape article/blog from the psychiatrist. The doctor stated that sexual addiction should be the LAST diagnosis used in a case such as in Tiger's situation. I think that's a fair statement to make.

Should the morality of it even be considered? who knows? I think that's muddy ground in cases such as this.

[Cosmin M.]

I think he should get... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

[Robert]

So then, would it be a medical issue or a moral issue? Should the morality of it even be considered?

Sexual addiction is not a disease it's a human nature issue.

[Robert]

I think it needs to be both moral issue and medical issue

Modern Psychiatry rejects the idea of sin. If you call sin a disease then you should eventually find a cure for it. The only cure for our sin nature is it's death. You can't improve on it because it is egocentric. That's why at the resurrection the sin nature remains in the grave. And we must remember that the sin nature isn't a object...it's a principle that has been injected into our very fiber...our DNA. You can't remove that....

Tiger Woods had been driven by his bent-to-self....He is selfish, as we all are by birth, but the solution to improving is not through Buddhism. Christ, through the Spirit, can override the sin nature so that you can resist temptation. No amount of determination will save Tiger from another woman's bed, unless he gets Christ in his life and says bye-bye to Buddhism.

[Robert]

Here's the life of anyone without a MATURE walk with Christ:

Through sin the whole human organism is deranged, the mind is perverted, the imagination corrupted. Sin has degraded the faculties of the soul. Temptations from without find an answering chord within the heart, and the feet turn imperceptibly toward evil. [MAR 91]

You musicians should know what "an answering chord" is....If you take two perfectly tuned pianos and press a key on one the other will respond back although it wasn't depressed. That's how sin works.

When you have money you have power and women who are given over to the flesh will find you. Then they'll use their charm to get a man weak. Unless Tiger gets Christ in his life his nature will have his way again....It happens in stages....First is talk...then comes a more intimate setting...then comes hugs maybe...then, well, you get the picture. The nature is crafty. It's deceptive...