I get sick

[Woody]

I would be interested to know what Stan thinks of this. He's from Canada.

[karl]

SO WHAT's the point?

The collapse of the world economy whether precipitated by the housing market or by the health care crisis is to be part of the Time Of Trouble (like the world has never seen before) spoken of by Daniel the Prophet.

After hearing Audio CD "The German Sunday Laws, the pope and the Obama Connection" I'm convinced that it is not business as usual. loudcry.2007@gmail.com

I agree with you that the adulteration of the government of this country is foretold in prophecy and we should not despair when it hits the fan. In light of that fact:

Do you think our freedoms in this nation have been a curse or a gift from God?

If you think our freedoms have been a gift from God, do you thing we should vote for people who are determined to adulterate them even more?

I agree that politicians are cozying up to the rich. They always have. The only way to deal with this is to make it so they DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO GIVE OUR MONEY TO THE RICH.

The only way to do this is to decrease the size, scope, and power of government. This means a return to conservative, constitutional principles.

Vote conservative.

[Neil D]

I would be interested to know what Stan thinks of this. He's from Canada.

As I recall, he has answered this question several times...As do most industrialized nations that have health care, he likes it...But I will let him tell you that...

[Neil D]

The cost of health care is clearly rising because of fears of what Obama is TRYING to do. They have to get ahead of the game. I worked in health care for nearly 20 years. I know how it works.

I was under the impression that you were a PT, and not in the insurance industry.....

...So how do you know "how it works"?

As for "the cost of health care is clearly rising", well, I don't think so...Someone in the industry feels the need for both a yact and a manson with acreage and that is the reason for the rise in rates...

....have fun with your co-pays...

[karl]

If legislation is passed that looks anything like the currently proposed bills before Congress, insurance companies will be forced to take all applicants for policies that include thousands of mandated benefits possibly including things like abortion, marriage counseling or in vitro fertilization. Insurance companies will either exit the business or raise premiums and co-pays to survive. Private insurance will become increasingly expensive and unaffordable for Americans who will now be forced to buy it.

Inevitably, the government will subsidize insurance policies for millions of Americans priced out of the market. However, since no government can provide all the free health care that people want, it will be forced to begin the rationing of medicine to prevent national bankruptcy.

True insurance reform would actually mean "government reform". It would get the government out of the business of heavily regulating health insurance. It would allow insurance to be bought and sold across state lines. It would allow individuals to purchase policies and reap the same tax advantages as insurance purchased through an employer so that individuals could have permanent, portable policies. True insurance reform would prohibit government from mandating silly benefits that few would want to buy - but are currently forced to - such as drug and alcohol counseling.

Unfortunately, Obama and Congress are proposing that we go in the exact opposite direction. They are ideologically unable to see that nearly all the problems in the US health care system have either been caused or made worse by government intervention.

Like a drunk trying to sober up by having another drink, they offer more of the same poison.

[phkrause]

The cost of health care is clearly rising because of fears of what Obama is TRYING to do. They have to get ahead of the game. I worked in health care for nearly 20 years. I know how it works.

Woody healthcare costs have gone up every year for at least 25-30 years and probably more. HC has been a problem for more years than I can think! My wife has been in hc for more than 40 years and ran a eye doctors clinic for about 12-13 years, so she knows what hc costs are. And she says they have been going up and up. This is why Clinton wanted to fix this. And Bush had 8 yrs and didn't do a thing to fix it. I wonder why? And now Obama wants to fix it, and maybe he's going about it wrong, but your party doesn't seem to care to fix health care.

pk

[Neil D]

Some myths debunked. Do you have the courage to listen.?

[karl]

Some myths debunked. Do you have the courage to listen.?

I believe everything this administration has said and is saying, don't you? Pardon me while I get in touch with my other personalities. This is the only way I can believe such conflicting Obam-emanations.

[Neil D]

I believe everything this administration has said and is saying, don't you? Pardon me while I get in touch with my other personalities. This is the only way I can believe such conflicting Obam-emanations.

There are principles that this administration is saying that will give you an idea as to how it is going to be ran. And it is very possible and probable that you will benefit from that very principle and policys of this administration.

There is currently a run on guns and ammo for those guns. This was caused by the rumor was that Obama was going to tighten laws regarding gun control. He has done nothing as yet and there is adamant statements that he plans to do nothing about it and his administration does not look to be doing anything about it. Nevertheless, rumors persist and the run on guns and ammo persist.

Here is an article from the TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF on current healthcare crisis..

By Lisa Eckelbecker

leckelbecker@telegram.com

I know that there is information that in any economic recovery, the place to start growing jobs is at the small-business level. This (high cost of health care insurance) is stifling their ability.

-- Joseph G. Murphy, MASSACHUSETTS INSURANCE COMMISSIONER

When Sunshine Sign Co. went to renew its health insurance plan for workers this year, the small business faced a daunting figure — 21 percent.

That's how much the Grafton company's premiums for coverage under the Fallon Community Health Plan are going up, and it translates to a price hike of about $1,000 per person a year. For Sunshine Sign, which employs about 30, the result will be slimmer profit margins, according to President and Chief Executive David R. Glispin.

“You try to aggressively control what you can within your business and you try to be somewhat understanding of what you can't,” Mr. Glispin said. “Health care has become exorbitant, but I guess we just accept it as a normal course of business.”

Many other small businesses in Massachusetts are confronting Sunshine Sign's dilemma: The economy remains weak, but health insurance costs are going up, sometimes by 30 percent or more.

The issue is getting attention. Arguing that small businesses are vital to job growth, Gov. Deval L. Patrick recently ordered the state's insurance division to require insurers to file their rates for small groups 30 days before taking effect so the insurance commissioner can review them.

Separate pieces of legislation on Beacon Hill would allow small businesses to form groups to buy insurance and would cap payments to doctors and other medical providers at 10 percent more than the rates paid by Medicare, the nation's health plan for seniors. The state's Division of Health Care Finance and Policy is due to begin hearings on health care cost containment in March, and the insurance division will hold a hearing March 8 in Fitchburg to hear from business leaders.

“I know that there is information that in any economic recovery, the place to start growing jobs is at the small-business level,” said Joseph G. Murphy, state insurance commissioner. “This is stifling their ability.”

Meantime, small businesses are sweating. Those with fewer than 50 workers typically renew their policies by April 1, and that deadline is fast approaching.

Small employers face unique challenges. They typically buy health insurance policies for their workers, while bigger employers often self-insure by setting aside money for workers' health benefits. Small-business advocates say rates for smaller groups depend on factors such as age, community and industry, while such factors do not figure in rate calculations for large groups.

“I guess our question is why are small businesses seeing increases that are twice the rate of medical inflation?” said Jon B. Hurst, president of the Retailers Association of Massachusetts. “We believe the answer is that small businesses are treated as second-class citizens.”

Rates for both small and large employers have been increasing. At Fallon Community Health Plan of Worcester, the monthly base rate of two health plans for small groups jumped about 13 percent to $422 and $358 in April 2009 compared with April 2008, according to filings with the state Division of Insurance. Base rates for small and large groups jumped about 8 percent to 15 percent at other plans.

Some health plans also charged higher base premiums to small groups. Boston-based Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts listed a base rate of about $397 a month for a small-group enhanced value plan in April 2009, compared with $365 for a large-group New England enhanced value plan. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care of Wellesley offered a rate of $438 to small groups and $425 to large groups, while indicating that the benefits in the plans were identical.

Tracking rates can be difficult. Once the bill arrives, said Bill Vernon, state director in Massachusetts of the National Federation of Independent Business, “then we get creative, which means we start playing with the premiums and the co-pays with regard to cost. It's very rare you can compare apples to apples, year to year.”

At Woodmeister Master Builders of Holden, a 150-person construction company known for its high-end carpentry and renovations, that juggling is under way. Woodmeister's open insurance enrollment begins Aug. 1, but the company is already projecting its premiums with Fallon will go up 30 percent.

Last year the company offered workers a choice between a lower premium plan with a high deductible, and a higher premium plan with a lower deductible, said Human Resources Director Jay B. Scully Jr. This year, it's looking into whether it could self-insure for hospital in-patient or out-patient services.

“It's increased costs,” Mr. Scully said of the insurance hikes. “It requires us to be more creative in terms of structuring the plan for our employees, making sure we're responsive to their needs, and it also results in a significant or greater amount of communication that's required.”

Health industry officials differ over the cause of rising rates. Fallon Community Health Plan declined to comment, referring questions to the Massachusetts Association of Health Plans, which has argued that insurers are passing along higher charges from doctors, hospitals and other medical providers.

“Ninety percent of the premium dollar goes to pay for medical services, so when provider rates go up, insurance rates go up,” said Eric D. Linzer, senior vice president of the health plan group.

The Massachusetts Association of Hospitals points the finger at insurers, saying in a recent statement that “under current Division of Insurance regulations, insurers can charge small businesses as much as 76 percent more in premiums than they charge their ‘big business' counterparts,” while adding “billions of dollars to healthcare costs through their billing and claims requirements.”

The office of state Attorney General Martha Coakley concluded after an analysis that price increases from providers caused most of the increases in health care costs in Massachusetts in recent years, and that prices were correlated to the market heft of providers.

Finding the reason for cost increases will matter, said Eileen McAnneny, senior vice president of government affairs for the Associated Industries of Massachusetts, an employer group.

“I think we have to get at that, and if it's the way our laws are structured for small groups, I think we have to get at that,” she said.

[Guest]

Hey karl, one of my personalities tried to vote for him. Now I'm down to just four.

[Neil D]

More students desiring to become Doctors and nurses will be given money for schooling, a larger base to reduce costs for all, incentives for preventiative medicine, real competition among insurance companys, eliminating "prexisting conditions".....Here is it in blue and white...

The proposal will make health care more affordable, make health insurers more accountable, expand health coverage to all Americans, and make the health system sustainable, stabilizing family budgets, the Federal budget, and the economy:

* It makes insurance more affordable by providing the largest middle class tax cut for health care in history, reducing premium costs for tens of millions of families and small business owners who are priced out of coverage today. This helps over 31 million Americans afford health care who do not get it today – and makes coverage more affordable for many more.

* It sets up a new competitive health insurance market giving tens of millions of Americans the exact same insurance choices that members of Congress will have.

* It brings greater accountability to health care by laying out commonsense rules of the road to keep premiums down and prevent insurance industry abuses and denial of care.

* It will end discrimination against Americans with pre-existing conditions.

* It puts our budget and economy on a more stable path by reducing the deficit by $100 billion over the next ten years – and about $1 trillion over the second decade – by cutting government overspending and reining in waste, fraud and abuse.

Progress

* The President signed the Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act on February 4, 2009, which provides quality health care to 11 million kids – 4 million who were previously uninsured.

* The President’s American Recovery and Reinvestment Act protects health coverage for 7 million Americans who lose their jobs through a 65 percent COBRA subsidy to make coverage affordable.

* The Recovery Act also invests $19 billion in computerized medical records that will help to reduce costs and improve quality while ensuring patients’ privacy.

* The Recovery Act also provides:

o $1 billion for prevention and wellness to improve America’s health and help to reduce health care costs;

o $1.1 billion for research to give doctors tools to make the best treatment decisions for their patients by providing objective information on the relative benefits of treatments; and

o $500 million for health workforce to help train the next generation of doctors and nurses.

[karl]

Neil, take off your liberal hat, put on your thinking cap and consider skeptically what you have posted above (from the propaganda site of this administration.) Remember that money doesn't just appear out of thin air. WHO are these billions to be stolen from?? You, if you pay taxes. Every tax payor.

Oh, I forgot. This money is just gonna be saved, right? Not stolen. Consider this: if money can be saved by reining in fraud, waste and abuse, why isn't it being done? WHY DO WE HAVE TO ANTE UP SO MUCH MORE TO ACCOMPLISH IT? Reminds me of the ludicrous sign in the department store: "Buy now and save."

No. Your options are to buy now OR save. You cannot have your cake (money) and eat it, too.

Anything useful proposed in Obamacare can be done without all the objectionable features, but the Dems WILL NOT ALLOW an incremental, sensible approach. The Pubs have put up 70 bills - all shot down - trying to get the good things done without the enormous price tag. No go. Gotta have that pork and that huge increase in governmental power over your life.

Fraud, waste and abuse can be (should have already been) addressed now, Neil. No Obamacare required. And if they can't be addressed now, what tooth fairy delusion makes you think they can be addressed later??

Middle class tax cuts can be (should have already been) addressed now. Dems are opposed to any tax cuts unless they are part of a package which immensely increases their power.

New competitive health insurance markets can be (should have already been) allowed now, simply by removing interstate restrictions. Dems are opposed unless they get Obamacare to boot.

Commonsense rules of the road to keep premiums down and prevent insurance industry abuses and denial of care can be (should have already been) done now. Dems are opposed unless.... you get the picture.

And this: "It puts our budget and economy on a more stable path by reducing the deficit by $100 billion over the next ten years" is a flat-out lie. Everybody except the most deluded American knows it. This is why we're opposed

[karl]

Originally Posted By: karl

I believe everything this administration has said and is saying, don't you? Pardon me while I get in touch with my other personalities. This is the only way I can believe such conflicting Obam-emanations.

There are principles that this administration is saying that will give you an idea as to how it is going to be ran. And it is very possible and probable that you will benefit from that very principle and policys of this administration.

There is currently a run on guns and ammo for those guns. This was caused by the rumor was that Obama was going to tighten laws regarding gun control. He has done nothing as yet and there is adamant statements that he plans to do nothing about it and his administration does not look to be doing anything about it. Nevertheless, rumors persist and the run on guns and ammo persist.

There is no question that I will benefit from Obamacare. I work in the healthcare industry. They'll have to bribe us initially to prevent wholesale mutiny. The bribery will last a number of years and will be at the expense of other sectors of the economy. With Medicare, we were allowed free access to the trough for twenty before they started the crackdown in '86. Yes, I'll make out like a bandit and will retire before they start the rationing in earnest.

So, do you think I ought to take the "Nero" attitude and just enjoy the ride? Or should I concern myself with the welfare of my fellow man? Obamacare will be done at someone else's expense. Would it be Christian of me to: 1) Take the money and run? or 2) Try to prevent my fellow Americans from being fleeced of their money and their freedom?

[bonnie]

Why are there so many homeless people if they have subsidies for housing?

Perhaps do an experiment. Send someone you know to an ophthalmologist, one who has cataracts that need surgery but has no insurance or is unable to pay cash and see if they would even let him/her in the office. Or someone who needs a bypass surgery, or cancer treatment.

Some actually prefer living on the streets. Others are content with homeless shelters at night. Subsidies cannot cover everyone. All countries have their homeless.

My husband is having cataracts monitored now.Medicare and supplemental insurance will pay the bill.Before we were forced on medicare our regular insurance would have paid. This is generally a concern to older people that are covered by medicare.Our ophthalmologist accepts a payment plan with payments as low as 50.00 per month for those that are not covered.They would get in the office just fine.

Within the past year I have had 3 friends battling cancer.One is insured and the other two are not.All received the appropriate treatment

[Woody]

Welcome Bonnie.

[bonnie]

Quote:

If you really don't want it socialized, why don't you say so instead of complaining that the Republicans have prevented you from shunting YOUR bills off on someone else?

Those nasty republicans and those quaint ideas of paying your own way.

Quote:

And Neil, from your rant, it certainly sounded like you were wanting somebody else to pick up your bills.

The american way

.....and am turned to a collection agency by the radiologists, who didn't send a bill...

[Guest]

Hey Bonnie, you're back!!!

Hey everybody, Bonnie's back!!!

[phkrause]

Well welcome back Bonnie. Good to have you back. I think. :)

pk

[Dr. Shane]

I got over $3000 in co-pays to manage.....

Medical services are expensive. Of course, if we all followed the Dave Ramsey plan, we would be able to pay $3,000 out of our emergency fund and then pay back the emergency fund back interest free. Doesn't that sound better than paying a collection agency?

As a church, we need to be teaching our members how to manage money. I am happy to see more and more Adventist church hosting Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University.

The problem I see here isn't the medical industry, the insurance industry, the Republican Party or President Obama. This is just a matter of poor financial planning and I have to put myself in the same boat with Neil. I don't have $3,000 in my emergency fund yet either. BUT I SHOULD and I am working in that direction. For my household, we really need an emergency fund of $10,000.

[bonnie]

The problem I see here isn't the medical industry, the insurance industry, the Republican Party or President Obama. This is just a matter of poor financial planning and I have to put myself in the same boat with Neil. I don't have $3,000 in my emergency fund yet either. BUT I SHOULD and I am working in that direction. For my household, we really need an emergency fund of $10,000.

If a debtor is upfront with a hospital and Dr most will work with them.The paying of the co-pays can be set at what the patient can comfortably handle. It takes a while of non compliance and non response before it is turned over to a collection agency.

Where do we get the idea someone else is responsible for our co-pays?

Co-pay information and responsibility is clearly spelled out in your insurance information.

[Dr. Shane]

Co-pays will probably still be a part of any government health-care plan. So a person needs to plan how they are going to pay for their co-pays before they get sick. An emergency fund is a great plan. A person should have three to six months living expenses in a savings account to be used as an emergency fund. Whether it should be three or six months depends on the person's salary, lifestyle and dependents. However it certainly should be enough to cover co-pays and a few months of rent or mortgage payments.

[CyberGuy]

I was told that a new provision put into the bill is a tax on all houses if you have it paid off. The bill puts a property tax on all homes where the mortgage is paid off. The assumption is that there is a lot of exess income they can tax now that the house is paid off. Several hundred billion in revenue is expected from this tax to pay for health care.

How to you people like that idea?

[Dr. Shane]

I find that hard to believe. Currently the federal government doesn't tax property like that. This is called real estate tax and is levied by local and state governments. The IRS actually allows home owners to deduct those real estate taxes from one's income if they itemize.

[CyberGuy]

We shall have to see if this is true or not. Problem is most of the house and senate will not read the whole bill. Even Obaama said he WILL NOT read the whole bill but will sign it anyway. We do not know what was sneaked into the bill and what new taxes will be put in. New taxes will have to come. There is no way we can add 1.5 trillion dollars to the budget without new taxes for all of us to pay.

[CyberGuy]

A Growing List

Below is a list of the tax increases Congress and the Administration have proposed to finance health care reform. This list includes taxes in the bill passed by the House of Representatives, the bill the Senate is currently debating, and other taxes mentioned as a possible way to pay for health care reform.

•An income surtax on taxpayers earning more than $500,000 a year,[1]

•An excise tax on high-cost "Cadillac" health insurance plans that cost more than $8,500 a year for individuals or $23,000 for families,[2]

•An excise tax on medical devices such as wheelchairs, breast pumps, and syringes used by diabetics for insulin injections,[3]

•A cap on the exclusion of employer-provided health insurance without offsetting tax cuts,[4]

•A limit on itemized deductions for taxpayers with a top income tax rate greater than 28 percent,[5]

•A windfall profits tax on health insurance companies,[6]

•A value-added tax, which would tax the value added to a product at each stage of production,[7]

•An increase in the Medicare portion of the payroll tax to 3.4 percent for incomes great than $200,000 a year ($250,000 for married filers),[8]

•An excise tax on sugar-sweetened beverages including non-diet soda and sports drinks,[9]

•Higher taxes on alcoholic beverages including beer, wine, and spirits,[10]

•A tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage of up to 2.5 percent of their adjusted gross income,[11]

•A limit on contributions to health savings accounts,[12]

•An 8 percent tax on all wages paid by employers that do not provide their employees health insurance that satisfies the requirements defined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services,[13]

•A limit on contributions to flexible spending arrangements,[14]

•Elimination of the deduction for expenses associated with Medicare Part D subsidies,[15]

•An increase in taxes on international businesses,[16]

•Elimination of the tax credits paper companies take for biofuels they create in their production process--the so-called "Black Liquor credit,"[17]

•Fees on insured and self-insured health plans,[18]

•A limit or repeal of the itemized deduction for medical expenses,[19]

•A limit on the Qualified Medical Expense definition,[20]

•An increase in the payroll taxes on students,[21]

•An extension of the Medicare payroll tax to all state and local government employees,[22]

•An increase in taxes on hospitals,[23]

•An increase in the estate tax,[24]

•Increased efforts to close the mythical "tax gap,"[25]

•A 5 percent tax on cosmetic surgery and similar procedures such as Botox treatments, tummy tucks, and face lifts,[26]

•A tax on drug companies,[27]

•An increase in the corporate tax on providers of health insurance,[28] and

•A $500,000 deduction limitation for the compensation paid by health insurance companies to their officers, employees, and directors.[29]

More to Come

The full list of taxes proposed to pay for health care reform is provided because taxes currently left out of the Senate or House bills could reappear at any point. For instance, the tax on cosmetic surgery listed above (sometimes called the "Botox tax") was written off long ago as a laughable way to pay for health care reform. Nevertheless, it somehow found its way into the current version of the Senate bill.

As the legislative process continues and Congress's desperation to pass a bill increases, it could propose even more tax hikes to pay for its massive expansion of government size and power. The Heritage Foundation will update this list with each new proposal.