What do you do when your spouse changes?

[Gail]

I don't think I would have a problem with the confession of being gay. There are gays that maintain a heterosexual marriage committing themselves to God's plan as outlined in the Bible.

If the gay partner, though, decides to leave the marriage in favour of same-gender relationships, THAT would be hard to take. There is not much the remaining spouse can do.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Let's be clear on this. We all abuse each other and our spouses.

We do NOT all inflict serious and life-threatening injuries on our spouses, seek to intimidate them into complying with our desires, or punish them for not complying with impossible demands, and then make them believe that it's all their fault, and they deserve it. We especially don't all try to kill our spouses.

[LifeHiscost]

As much as she would have liked things to remain the way they were, she knew they couldn't. Their marriage dissolved a few years later.

How does one handle having one's world turn upside down, and just when things seemed to be going well?

I think most people, including Christians, decide who they would like to marry, get married, then Christians ask God to take care of the obvious differences they didn't pay attention to while they were putting their best foot forward in the early relationship, never having asked God for His approval in the first place. Then when the marriage falls apart, because of the vows made before God they either live the rest of their life together in regret and often misery, or they follow Moses instructions in order to keep from killing each other.

"He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so." Matthew 19:8 NKJV

Patience!!

[LifeHiscost]

It didn't look bad or anything, but the more mad he got, the more she laughed.

I'm grateful my wife and I can laugh together about everything, almost. However we've never had children together so I suppose we have reason to say, "But for the grace of God, there go I".

Especially since I'm a disciplinarian that took literally the advice, "Spare the rod and spoil the child.", while my wife is very good with patience and waits until the last shoe drops before she goes into the other room and cries.

You have to be a really hard hearted person not to conjure up a real apology under those circumstances.

P.S. We lived together as man and wife for 20-22 years before we had our first argument. Guess who cried and who apologized. And can you see why, considering the 33 years we've been married, why I believe I married God's miracle. And we both asked God if we should marry and He said yes.

And I plead the 5th amendment about my previous relationships on the grounds that it would tend to incriminate me.

Patience!

[LifeHiscost]

WOODY

that is a good point about learning to tolerating

each other in marriage

dgrimm60

Let me ask you this question, dgrimm, what would be your inner thoughts if every time you walked in the door, you knew the love of your life was just tolerating you? Jesus asks even more than that in response to our enemies.

Patience!

[LifeHiscost]

Wouldn't the confession of a spouse that they are homosexual be in itself a form of emotional and psychological abuse?

Alex

It is not only a form of emotional and psychological abuse but it gives biblical grounds for divorce as considering in the mind a relationship other than that which is ordained of God is seen as adultery.

"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:28 NKJV

The same principle would apply with lust for shared same-sex relationships.

"Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;" Romans 1:24-28 NKJV

This instruction does not abrogate forgiveness by a partner who would be patient enough to reveal the mercy of Christ, introducing Jesus as Lord of Lords, Who is able to make the inner change in a person necessary to bring union and redemption, that which none of us can hope to live eternally without.

Patience!!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

Wouldn't the confession of a spouse that they are homosexual be in itself a form of emotional and psychological abuse?

I have no idea where you are going with this. BUT ... abuse is not a justification for divorce. Adultry is. But not abuse. Let's be clear on this. We all abuse each other and our spouses. But, God calls upon us to make it right. He calls upon us to pray and to unite. But he does not call us to divorce because there is abuse.

Now ... separation is always an option. We are not commanded to live with an abusive spouse. But we are called upon to make it right and to reconcile.

I know of a situation where the wife physically abused her husband and he didn't fight back...he would always try to calm her down. But at a certain point, he had had enough and couldn't take it anymore. He took a baseball bat to her and killed her. He was sentenced to life in prison. He was an SDA. His wife was not. Divorce would have saved them both.

[Woody]

So would have separation. And one is Biblical. The other is not.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Let's be clear on this. We all abuse each other and our spouses.

We do NOT all inflict serious and life-threatening injuries on our spouses, seek to intimidate them into complying with our desires, or punish them for not complying with impossible demands, and then make them believe that it's all their fault, and they deserve it. We especially don't all try to kill our spouses.

There are far more examples of abuse than just that. Perhaps you should check with a psychologist for a complete comprehensive list. It might be eye opening.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

So would have separation. And one is Biblical. The other is not.

Well, call me evil, but I would have chosen divorce, Biblical or not. Separation still ties one to another in some ways.

[olger]

Quote:

Wouldn't the confession of a spouse that they are homosexual be in itself a form of emotional and psychological abuse?

I have no idea where you are going with this. BUT ... abuse is not a justification for divorce. Adultry is. But not abuse. Let's be clear on this. We all abuse each other and our spouses. But, God calls upon us to make it right. He calls upon us to pray and to unite. But he does not call us to divorce because there is abuse.

Now ... separation is always an option. We are not commanded to live with an abusive spouse. But we are called upon to make it right and to reconcile.

Good post,

oG

[GreatLakesGramma]

Originally Posted By: abelisle

Wouldn't the confession of a spouse that they are homosexual be in itself a form of emotional and psychological abuse?

Alex

It is not only a form of emotional and psychological abuse but it gives biblical grounds for divorce as considering in the mind a relationship other than that which is ordained of God is seen as adultery.

That is nonsense. Nobody chooses to be sexually attracted to members of their own gender. Admitting to being homosexual is no more grounds for divorce than when my husband admitted to me, after years of struggling with guilt and self-hatred, that seeing the lingerie ads in my J C Penney catalog were a source of temptation for him. Was that emotional or psychological abuse toward me? No, it was honesty. It was also a request for my prayers for him, AND that I put my catalogs where he wouldn't see them and be tempted to look inside. Thus my catalogs aren't in the bathroom anymore. Does this mean he has no more struggles? Hardly. But his struggles are TEMPTATION, not sin. There is a big difference.

My homosexual son can no more change the fact that he is attracted to other men instead of to women, than I can change the fact that I still have problems with mental images I chose to put into my mind many years ago before I was really a Christian. I never voluntarily bring up those images, and I don't welcome them when they do come up. I wish I could eradicate them completely and permanently, but I'll have to wait until Jesus does that for me, when He changes my corruption into incorruption at the last trumpet. Even so, my son will have to wait for his wrong attractions to change. None of those things are SIN. Unless we welcome them and choose to dwell on them, they are temptation.

To excuse divorce on the grounds that a spouse suffers from a form of temptation that is not as socially acceptable than some others is ridiculous. I thank God that He doesn't judge us by our temptations, but only by our choices! Or I'd be toast, and so would all of the rest of the members of this forum.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

Our marriage is built on our faith. Without a common faith I would have a very difficult time continuing in the marriage.

Can you really magine turning your back on the one you have loved all these years?

LD

It wouldn't be me turning my back. It would be her turning her back and I would just be accepting the reality of the situation.

In the book of Ezra we find God commanding the men to put away their unbelieving wives. Amos asks the rhetorical question "Can two walk together except they be agreed?" Paul tells us not to be unequally yoked.

If my spouse walks away from God I will certainly invest a lot of time and energy trying to win her soul back to Him but at some point I would have to accept reality. My marriage is based on our faith in God. That is the Rock we have built our marriage upon. Without that foundation, our marriage would just be playing house.

When Jesus said that adultery was the only grounds for divorce He was talking to Jewish men with Jewish wives. He was not talking to believers married to unbelievers.

Paul told believing wives that they were not compelled to divorce their unbelieving husbands but that by their example they may win their husbands to Christ. He was talking to converts. He did not tell them they were bound to their non-believing husbands, only that they were not obligated to divorce them.

Thus I am convicted the Bible teaches if a spouse leaves the faith, the believing spouse is not obligated to stay in the marriage nor obligated to leave the marriage. Certainly there are cases when the believing spouse is better off leaving the marriage - as in the cases in the book of Ezra. There are other cases where the believing spouse is better off staying in the marriage - as in the cases of the female converts addressed by Paul.

[LifeHiscost]

So would have separation. And one is Biblical. The other is not.

And that is your determination for yourself. Others accept this Word____

"He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."

But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. "Matt 19:8-11 NASB

Patience!!

[LifeHiscost]

To excuse divorce on the grounds that a spouse suffers from a form of temptation that is not as socially acceptable than some others is ridiculous. I thank God that He doesn't judge us by our temptations, but only by our choices! Or I'd be toast, and so would all of the rest of the members of this forum.

Having come out of the World and accepting the promises of God as something He could fulfill in my life, I recall having night dreams that if revealed would have made me ashamed to profess being a Christian, not to mention the daydreams that the hormones of youth wouldn't allow to be fit for a believer. Subsequently I asked God to deliver me from the night dreams, of which I felt I had no control. Some short time later(like the next night) the illicit night dreams disappeared, never to return, lo these 40 or more years. And within a period of time, not now remembered exactly, the day dreams also became a thing of the past to this day.

The promises claimed____

"“Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for Me?"Jeremiah 32:27 NKJV

"But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”"Matthew 19:26 NKJV

To be delivered from the sin is wonderful. To be delivered from the temptation puts the struggle in Jesus hands and delivers another more powerful promise.

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."

John 14:27 KJV

Patience!

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

I have no idea where you are going with this. BUT ... abuse is not a justification for divorce. Adultry is. But not abuse. Let's be clear on this. We all abuse each other and our spouses. But, God calls upon us to make it right. He calls upon us to pray and to unite. But he does not call us to divorce because there is abuse.

Now ... separation is always an option. We are not commanded to live with an abusive spouse. But we are called upon to make it right and to reconcile.

Good post,

oG

(looking left and look right ... looking front and looking back) IS this really olger that is agreeing with a Woody non-political post? And on top of that a religious topic? Olger ... have you taken your pulse and blood pressure today? Is this for real?

[GreatLakesGramma]

Having come out of the World and accepting the promises of God as something He could fulfill in my life, I recall having night dreams that if revealed would have made me ashamed to profess being a Christian, not to mention the daydreams that the hormones of youth wouldn't allow to be fit for a believer. Subsequently I asked God to deliver me from the night dreams, of which I felt I had no control. Some short time later(like the next night) the illicit night dreams disappeared, never to return, lo these 40 or more years. And within a period of time, not now remembered exactly, the day dreams also became a thing of the past to this day.

Yes, I've had this type of deliverance also. I guess the deliverance I'm really looking for is deliverance from this world, not mental deletion, because the mental images from the past aren't the actual problem, it's the fact that I know what evil looks like. If I hear or read anything, being a visual person, my mind will instantly produce an illustration for me, even of things I've never actually seen. If descriptions of those kinds of things had never been put there to begin with, my mind would have nothing to work with.

My husband is a good example. He grew up believing that homosexual acts and child molestation were abominable evils, but he didn't have a clue what either of them actually consisted of. One day he said to me "how can men have sex with each other anyway?" I told him. I think he might have been sorry he asked. Another time, after ranting about child molesters, he asked me what it was they did to children. I told him that too. Now he gets even more incensed about it.

But for me, I don't think there's any act so abominable that my mind couldn't supply a picture of it. So I'm careful of what I voluntarily allow to enter my mind. That's why I don't read novels or watch TV or movies, other than Christian ones, and I've learned I even need to be selective of those. I should avoid the news online too. But I can't control everything that enters my consciousness, unless I were to go live in a cave and never have anything to do with mankind again. I don't consider that an option.

Revealing one's homosexuality to his/her spouse isn't abuse, any more than it would be for me to tell my husband of my struggles with imagination, because it has nothing to do with the spouse. It has to do with the one with the struggle. And everybody struggles with something, unless they're mentally incapable of comprehending right and wrong.

[LifeHiscost]

Revealing one's homosexuality to his/her spouse isn't abuse, any more than it would be for me to tell my husband of my struggles with imagination, because it has nothing to do with the spouse. It has to do with the one with the struggle. And everybody struggles with something, unless they're mentally incapable of comprehending right and wrong.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, GreatLakesGramma. I've found that, rather than focusing on that which I want to get out of my system (mental, physical, spiritual), for the sake of fulfilling the role of a disciple of Christ, I just ask our Father to put within me the necessary motives and emphasis to walk (go) in the direction He wishes me to go. Doing that has helped me understand this promise below, as well as insuring me the grace to allow others the freedom to think and act anyway they choose for themselves.

"I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one."

John 17:14 NASB

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6:12 NKJV

This permits them to find freedom from undue effort on my part to change them, something they might feel pressured to do against their will.

I can't answer for whatever method of persuasion the Word, as applied by the Holy Spirit might exert on their behalf, even if that Word happens to come from my mouth.

As to the above underlined quote from yourself, I disagree. Just think in the most intimate moment with the spouse, if he/she should say to the other, "This moment means so much more to me as I think of (name of whatever person might come to mind)." Would the romance of the moment come to a screeching halt? Or would it help the present relationship progress to deeper commitments of joy with each other? Or would it be abuse?

Just something to think about, or on second thought, maybe not, for I know that in some minds of today the worst is often the most tantalizing.

God's blessings!

[Gail]

Having come out of the World and accepting the promises of God as something He could fulfill in my life, I recall having night dreams that if revealed would have made me ashamed to profess being a Christian, not to mention the daydreams that the hormones of youth wouldn't allow to be fit for a believer. Subsequently I asked God to deliver me from the night dreams, of which I felt I had no control. Some short time later(like the next night) the illicit night dreams disappeared, never to return, lo these 40 or more years. And within a period of time, not now remembered exactly, the day dreams also became a thing of the past to this day.

The promises claimed____

"“Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for Me?"Jeremiah 32:27 NKJV

"But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”"Matthew 19:26 NKJV

To be delivered from the sin is wonderful. To be delivered from the temptation puts the struggle in Jesus hands and delivers another more powerful promise.

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."

John 14:27 KJV

Patience!

LifeHisCost, Psalm 19:12,13 providesa prayer that you can pray:

"Who can understand his errors?

Cleanse me from secret faults.

Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;

Let themn not have dominion over me."

This covers both secret sins and those not so secret! It covers all of them!

[Dr. Shane]

Revealing one's homosexuality to his/her spouse isn't abuse, any more than it would be for me to tell my husband of my struggles... And everybody struggles with something, unless they're mentally incapable of comprehending right and wrong.

We shouldn't tell our spouses certain information that would hurt them unless they need to know. To do so is selfish on our part.

For example, if I have an affair I shouldn't tell my wife just to relieve my conscience. Unless the affair is something that is on-going. If that be the case, yes, my wife needs to know.

If I discover I am gay, I do not need to reveal that to my wife unless I am involved with same-sex activities. I may want to confide in a trusted friend or counselor but to lay that heavy burden on my wife so that I might feel "honest" is selfishness. Unless I am acting out on my gay desires, my wife doesn't need to know.

[Cosmin M.]

told her he is gay.

I need some really fast...

[Suenell]

One thing's for sure, I will not buy any of Ray Boltz music anymore! Obviously he was in it for the money, not for the blessings & I won't support someone like that other than in prayer.

[Outta Here]

We shouldn't tell our spouses certain information that would hurt them unless they need to know. To do so is selfish on our part.

For example, if I have an affair I shouldn't tell my wife just to relieve my conscience. Unless the affair is something that is on-going. If that be the case, yes, my wife needs to know.

If I discover I am gay, I do not need to reveal that to my wife unless I am involved with same-sex activities. I may want to confide in a trusted friend or counselor but to lay that heavy burden on my wife so that I might feel "honest" is selfishness. Unless I am acting out on my gay desires, my wife doesn't need to know.

Wow. I am blown away by this statement. We are called to carry one another's burdens and to be a help-meet for our spouses. By not telling one's spouse it to deprive them of the opportunity to be the help-meet that God wants us to be.

Marriage is all about RELATIONSHIP, not keeping things from one another.

[GreatLakesGramma]

I agree totally, Aubrey. But it depends on the context of why, when, and how a person tells things like that, whether it is the right thing to do.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: Shane

We shouldn't tell our spouses certain information that would hurt them unless they need to know. To do so is selfish on our part.

For example, if I have an affair I shouldn't tell my wife just to relieve my conscience. Unless the affair is something that is on-going. If that be the case, yes, my wife needs to know.

If I discover I am gay, I do not need to reveal that to my wife unless I am involved with same-sex activities. I may want to confide in a trusted friend or counselor but to lay that heavy burden on my wife so that I might feel "honest" is selfishness. Unless I am acting out on my gay desires, my wife doesn't need to know.

Wow. I am blown away by this statement. We are called to carry one another's burdens and to be a help-meet for our spouses. By not telling one's spouse it to deprive them of the opportunity to be the help-meet that God wants us to be.

Marriage is all about RELATIONSHIP, not keeping things from one another.

Agree completely with Aubrey.

1) You CANNOT have emotional intimacy with your spouse if there are hidden closets between you.

2) Once married, the two become one. What one spouse does will affect the other spouse spiritually & emotionally.

g