Illegal immigrants

[SivartM]

I would post this in the humour section, but it's really more of a political issue.

So, what do you think?

I think that all of the reasons why people hate illegal immigrants could be used against the early American settlers (who seem to be like saints to some more patriotic individuals). If it came to "everyone learning Spanish" versus "our civilization being destroyed", I'd really prefer the former.

But maybe it was okay because the natives weren't "Christian". :)

[phkrause]

Well at the least it makes you think Sivart.

pk

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

One problem with the cartoon is that each Native American tribe had its own language.

And I don't want to learn Spanish. The Declaration of Independence was written in English. So was the Constitution. Let the Hispanic people learn English. I'm tired of listening to Spanish in America.

When I went to school in Austria, I was expected to speak and understand German. Not English. So I did.

[lazarus]

Nice cartoon.

Let's see the weird and convoluted self serving justifications that will inevitably follow.

[Woody]

Nice cartoon.

Let's see the weird and convoluted self serving justifications that will inevitably follow.

Not exactly a healthy way to promote good dialogue. But typical of liberalism.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I'm part Iroquois. Get out of my country.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

Nice cartoon.

Let's see the weird and convoluted self serving justifications that will inevitably follow.

Not exactly a healthy way to promote good dialogue. But typical of liberalism.

Typical indeed.

[SivartM]

I'm part Iroquois. Get out of my country.

No, no! It's my country because I speak English.

Or... something. :\

[Outta Here]

-deleted-

[lazarus]

Not exactly a healthy way to promote good dialogue.

Is that you saying that woody? LOL.

[lazarus]

I'm part Iroquois. Get out of my country.

Sorry, its not yours anymore. We're takin' ova.

(brown power by the way)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

You go back to where you came from. "Brown power"????

I notice you use the quote from a white man as your signature.

[lazarus]

You go back to where you came from. "Brown power"????

Do you not know what brown power is? Google = 2,670,000 for brown power movement. Check it out Chica!!!

Quote:

I notice you use the quote from a white man as your signature.

Did I do something wrong?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Ewaye, my little omelet.

[bonnie]

Quote:

So, what do you think?

I think that all of the reasons why people hate illegal immigrants could be used against the early American settlers (who seem to be like saints to some more patriotic individuals). If it came to "everyone learning Spanish" versus "our civilization being destroyed", I'd really prefer the former.

But maybe it was okay because the natives weren't "Christian".

It was okay if that is the word you want to use as that was the way of the world at that time. Lands were conquered and settled by the strongest. The same way one Indian tribe took from the other.

The american settlers were not saints but were a courageous people,braving unknowns,leaving family behind they would never see again. You may not,but I firmly believe God was directing the settling of america.

The early settlers lived up to the light they had at the time.While the treatment of the Indian was wrong it was not deliberately wrong. They followed what they knew.The treatment of Indian on Indian was wrong as well.

It is not a question of hating illegal immigrants.That is the word you choose to use.

We have laws in this land,some good and some bad. Al should obey them.This burden cannot be sustained forever. This country is broke.

[Bravus]

Ah. So the problem with the illegal immigrants is that they were born in the wrong century?

[bonnie]

Ah. So the problem with the illegal immigrants is that they were born in the wrong century?

That is not quite what I said but does have a bearing. The immigrant of preceding centuries was altogether different than the Illegal immigrant of today.

They came with a different mindset and did not anticipate subsidized housing,free medical,food stamps etc. They came for the promise of freedom to raise their families.

Immigration laws were far different than what we have today.

Maybe you have not heard but the US has a financial crisis of sorts. We cannot keep up the pace. Resources are limited.

[Dr. Shane]

I think it is hard to draw a contrast to a tribal situation to that of federal governments. At the time America's founding there were monarchies in Europe with well defined borders. America, Africa and much of Asia was tribal in nature. Boundaries were not established like those in Europe.

Today, the boundaries between nations is established. Clearly each country has a right to defend its boundaries. Mexico is very aggressive at defending its southern boarder. It has a right to do so. The US also has a right to defend its boarder. The US enters into agreements and treaties with other countries in regard to immigration. All of that is within its rights. This is a completely different world than post-settlement America. Does anyone today think the kings of Europe should have establish immigration agreements the Native American tribes?

European immigration to America was peaceful and successful in some areas where the Native Americans assimilated. They built homes, farmed and got along with the settlers. The Pacific Northwest is one example of that. Certainly things could have been better managed by both the settlers and the Native Americans. Yet,,, that has little coalition with what is going on today.

The world is a changing place. That has stayed consistent. The Native Americans resisted change much like the conservative in America resist change today. Instead of resisting change, the Native Americans should have embraced it just like the conservatives should today.

The answer to illegal immigration is to redo our immigration process. The process is too long, difficult and expensive. President Bush understood the issue but few Republicans in Congress grasp his vision. It doesn't seem to be a priority to the Obama Administration.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Ah. So the problem with the illegal immigrants is that they were born in the wrong century?

That is not quite what I said but does have a bearing. The immigrant of preceding centuries was altogether different than the Illegal immigrant of today.

They came with a different mindset and did not anticipate subsidized housing,free medical,food stamps etc. They came for the promise of freedom to raise their families.

Immigration laws were far different than what we have today.

Maybe you have not heard but the US has a financial crisis of sorts. We cannot keep up the pace. Resources are limited.

I doubt the illegals come here expecting subsidized this and subsidized that. I suspect that most of the men I picked off the street for day labor during the years we lived in S. Cal were illegals. I never asked their status. I know that there would be several of them crammed into a small apartment, usually in a rundown neighborhood. All the ones I've met wanted was to find work, and they had no qualms doing the work that most Americans would not do. They would rather go on welfare before doing what the illegals would do.

[lazarus]

. The immigrant of preceding centuries was altogether different than the Illegal immigrant of today.

They came with a different mindset and did not anticipate subsidized housing,free medical,food stamps etc. They came for the promise of freedom to raise their families.

Most immigrants (94 percent in 1993 according to the Current Population Survey, CPS) do not use "welfare" as conventionally defined (to include Aid to Families with Dependent Children, AFDC, Supplemental Security Income, SSI, or General Assistance, GA).

Overall, immigrants have slightly higher welfare use rates than natives (6.6. versus 4.9 percent). But welfare use among immigrants is concentrated among refugees and elderly immigrants who use welfare at rates disproportionate to their numbers. These two groups make up 21 percent of the immigrant population but 40 percent of welfare users. Non-refugee working-age immigrants use welfare at about the same rate as natives.

Poor immigrants remain less likely than poor natives to use welfare (16 versus 25 percent). These findings are confirmed by administrative data: a 1995 Food and Nutrition Service study found that eligible immigrants who legalized under the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 were less likely to receive food stamps than the general population.

http://www.urban.org/publications/410345.html

[Gerr]

Thanks for that bit of info that proves my point.

I am ambivalent about the illegal immigrants. If I live in a country where my future looks dismal, I'd be heading

for the USA, Canada, or some other prosperous country also. But my overall impression is that their presence in this country is either neutral or a boon to our economy. Without them, California's multibillion agricultural industry would be ruined. Who would pick the fruits and vegetables? Many complain that they take jobs away from Americans and

that may be true in some cases, but how many Americans would do the jobs they do?

[Woody]

I've worked in other countries. Some welcomed me with open arms and some treated me as if I was an alien ... which I was.