oldsailor29 Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 I don't know about all the other religions, but Christianity does not need atheism. After the great controversy is over, there will be no atheists, and we will get along just fine without them. Also, in the new earth, there will be no lawyers. I think it was Paul who said that the first thing God is going to do is kill all the lawyers. Quote Prs God, frm whm blssngs flw http://www.zoelifestyle.com/jmccall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. (2 Cor. 6:15-17) Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 16, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2010 No, I did not miss the main thrust of the article. The article also mentioned that atheism "at its best" can also contribute to a system of ethics, or something to that effect. My question still stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Twilight, When I speak of "open-mindedness", my best example is Jesus himself: "Jesus met the people on their own ground, as one who was acquainted with their perplexities. He made truth beautiful by presenting it in the most direct and simple way. His language was pure, refined, and clear as a running stream. His voice was as music . . ." and "His messages of mercy were varied to suit His audience. He knew "how to speak a word in season to him that is weary" (Isa. 50:4); for grace was poured upon His lips, that He might convey to men in the most attractive way the treasures of truth. He had tact to meet the prejudiced minds, and surprise them with illustrations that won their attention.Through the imagination He reached the heart. His illustrations were taken from the things of daily life, and although they were simple, they had in them a wonderful depth of meaning. Alex Is this not simply referring to presenting truths in a manner they could easily relate to? Rather than compromising an absolute biblical position, which the temptation often is, when we want to "dialogue" with atheists and agnostics. Truth suffers no compromise. Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted March 16, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 No, I did not miss the main thrust of the article. The article also mentioned that atheism "at its best" can also contribute to a system of ethics, or something to that effect. My question still stands. As to a contribution to ethics, it shows us that people can can have very principled personal codes of ethics without believing in God. It also shows us that their ethical decisions based on love for their fellow man are as sincere as ours. It shows us that they didn't have to have a code of behavior thrust at them for them to do what is right even if the gauge of correctness is the Christian Ten Commandments. That's how I see atheism and ethics at their(atheism's) best. Others may see different things. Let God be their judge not us. Alex Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. Â http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 First of all you have to define morality before you can compare atheistic morality and Christian morality. From most of my conversations with Atheists, they do not accept absolute laws of morality. Only subjective morality. Therefore, what they decide is right is right. Whereas Christianity has an absolute standard of morality. That is not allowed to "move" to suit ones desires. The two should not be compared as equal. They are not. One is from man, one is from God. Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted March 16, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2010 First of all you have to define morality before you can compare atheistic morality and Christian morality. From most of my conversations with Atheists, they do not accept absolute laws of morality. Only subjective morality. Therefore, what they decide is right is right. Whereas Christianity has an absolute standard of morality. That is not allowed to "move" to suit ones desires. The two should not be compared as equal. They are not. One is from man, one is from God. Hmm . . . didn't know there were two different forms of morality. I thought morality was simply the way people behaved and made right vs. wrong choices. Sort of the way Bible characters did. But anyway, I say "so?" Does what you say make atheists as a group lesser than Christians? What was that Bible verse that went somewhat like this: "esteem others as better than yourselves"? Even if they don't accept "an absolute standard of morality", do they still have the capacity to do good things? Scorecard = Christians - good Atheists - evil If this isn't a provincial attitude to our fellow human beings, I don't know what is? Would Jesus refuse to engage atheists before they declared that they adhered to an absolute code of morality? The question he did ask was: "and who do you say I am?" Alex Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. Â http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 This is a fundamental point Alex. If an athiest talks about "morality", he is talking about a "self defined" morality. Or "selfish" morality. When a Christian talks about "morality", he should be talking about an "absolute" standard of morality. The atheist gets to define his own "morality". Christianity does not allow that liberty for the believer. A vast difference between the two. Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 karl: even say you can learn nothing from non-Christians - do you still have anything to learn from Christians, from the Bible, from God? Or do you already know everything you need to know? *That* is what I was talking about. You can learn something from just about anyone. This article is not talking about learning how to prepare tofu from atheists. The title of this thread (or should I say threat) is that religion NEEDS atheism. Yeah, religion needs atheism just about as much as commuters need flat tires. I'm not saying that commuters can't learn anything from flat tires. They can. But should they actively seek that education? Should they be in favor of puncture strips on every thoroughfare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 A good analogy. :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 And on Pascal's Wager: http://www.bravus.com/blog/?p=1498 Now that I've perused your blog I see how far left your input is coming from. Good luck, Bravus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 16, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2010 'Left' is probably not the most useful way of describing it... maybe 'left field'. But thanks for your wishes. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted March 17, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 17, 2010 Thesis: a relative ethical framework that is lived is better than an absolute ethical framework that is continually flouted Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 The only box that will eventually be found to find security and everlasting joy, whether atheist , agnostic, or Christian, is this box provided by Jesus Himself. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 KJV "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."John 8:32 KJV "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."John 10:9 KJV "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." John 10:2 KJV Regards!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 17, 2010 Members Share Posted March 17, 2010 karl, I think you've failed to appreciate the "flavor" of this piece. This was not written to suggest we either "incorporate" the beliefs of atheists or "imbibe" in them. It's really about "attitude" and I sense a negative one in what you and others have said. Being open-minded doesn't mean one becomes openly gullible or religiously compromising. BTW, why is it perfectly okay for us to share the Gospel but refuse to even listen to those who don't know the Gospel. How convenient for you to say that Paul was "sharing" but quick to say that he wasn't "incorporating." Therefore I can only assume that you feel both articles are encouraging Christians to compromise what they believe if they even deign to listen to atheists/agnostics? Alex (why does everyone so quickly take sides on just about everything that is said here?) You have to ask? pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 If the behavior is no different in both, how is that better? Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 And are atheists willing to step out of "their" box? I very much doubt it. Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsailor29 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 atheists make me want to puke Quote Prs God, frm whm blssngs flw http://www.zoelifestyle.com/jmccall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted March 17, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2010 2 interestings views I see here: 1) Are Christians willing to step out of their box? Not here, that's for sure. 2) Some Christians in this thread love their fellow man so much, it makes them puke. Alex (thinking to myself: "maybe they never read I Cor. 13?" ) Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. Â http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Excellent thoughts here Alex. Thank you. This is so important. But you can be sure it will be rejected by the conservatives. They think THEIR intrepretation of scripture is the absolute. So, why should they listen to anyone else. This is where ALL communnication stops ... when one of the individuals ... thinks they have nothing more to learn. They then stop listening and stop learning. Some think highly of their own puke. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted March 17, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 17, 2010 2 interestings views I see here: 1) Are Christians willing to step out of their box? Not here, that's for sure. 2) Some Christians in this thread love their fellow man so much, it makes them puke. Alex (thinking to myself: "maybe they never read I Cor. 13?" ) If you read my 3 posts in this thread, I raised no objections regarding dialoguing with anyone including atheists. I did raise the question as to what possible ethical principles they could contribute. If you want to dialogue with them, fine. Good luck. I hope you can change someone's mind. And I mean that sincerely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 atheists make me want to puke This is getting serious,oldsailor! I think you'd better take some maalox and go back to bed until you're feeling better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 17, 2010 Members Share Posted March 17, 2010 To no one in particular. Are there really any atheist? They say they are until there stuck in a foxhole and the enemy is coming to kill them. So I would say a true atheist is like a true christian, not afraid to die! Would you not say? pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWNolan Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 To no one in particular. Are there really any atheist? They say they are until there stuck in a foxhole and the enemy is coming to kill them. So I would say a true atheist is like a true christian, not afraid to die! Would you not say? pk A true atheistis a contradiction. An atheist KNOWS there is no God, god, or gods. To Know there is no God, god, or gods one needs to know everything. To know everything, one needs to be God, god, or gods. So in summery, atheist is a god that does not believe in himself. Quote there is no try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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