Dr. Shane Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Amazing Facts will be doing a crusade starting the beginning of next month. My wife and I plan to invite our neighbors. Our church is doing a big outreach. Is anyone else planning anything? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 I know about the satellite crusade but I don't know if any of the local churches are planning to host anything. I myself have no way to receive the broadcasts. I keep checking their site to see if it's updated with info on what churches are carrying it and it still said "under construction" last I looked -- infuriating -- they need a new webmaster!!! -- or at least to update their site I mean! I have mixed feelings about this particular outfit, Amazing Facts. I could get behind them more solidly if they didn't insist on inserting socio-political "hot potatoes" in the mix just to express their stance on them. My view is - get people to God and let GOD convict them on those things in HIS time; otherwise you risk turning them off for something unimportant when the only REAL offense should be the CROSS -- if there is to be ANY offense at all, that is. Also if they would update their understanding of the occult or else don't bother to pretend to talk about it at all. No one today equates the occult with seances and "talking to the dead" -- it is far more complex and sophisticated than these quaint relics of the Victorian era. I don't think inaccuracy EVER serves a good purpose, and when you are trying to reach educated people who know the difference it is a real turn off to have someone speak ignorantly in the course of presumably "presenting truth". Not because of any "snob factor", Shane, but because imagine how you'd feel if you sat under a math professor who thought 2+2=5 and insisted on teaching that as part of how math is done in his class ... would you really feel you could trust him to guide you in learning mathematics? Especially if he and other students working with him thought it simply didn't matter whether 2+2=4 or 2+2=5 or 2+2=22 so long as you were "doing addition"??? In the above I'm speaking of course of things I saw in their recent End of the World DVD. I have friends/family I really wanted to share this DVD with and those elements ruined -- I mean RUINED -- any possibility of doing so for me. I would have been stuck trying to defend Batchelor's choice of imagery while he prated about immorality, or his antiquated notions of what constituted the "occult", and the REAL MESSAGE would have been BURIED by these faux pas. Look, if Douggie B. really feels called by God to "condemn" gay marriage or Harry Potter, that's FINE -- let him do so in a different venue, not in tandem with trying to reach people who don't even know God themselves and therefore have no basis for evaluating such things in the Holy Spirit. I say get people to Christ first on whatever basis they can be led to feel their need of Him, that is, the things common to us all as human beings and the things THEY already feel in their heart to be sin, and let GOD then convict them about anything else, and let it BE God convicting and not man. Sorry, that didn't really answer your question. Or maybe it did? If any of the local churches host it, I'd be glad to encourage ppl to come to it, but I'd brace myself for a lot of mopping up so the MESSAGE wouldn't be lost in the fray of any socio-political hot buttons used to convey it. Isn't it enough to know we are ALL sinners and we can all tell that because of our attitudes and secret thoughts, our jealousies, envies, covetings, boastings, hatings, etc., the things common to us all? Again, let God convict on the hot potatoes, not man shove them in the faces of the unsaved and drive them further from Christ. That's my main concern. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Quote: In the above I'm speaking of course of things I saw in their recent End of the World DVD. I have friends/family I really wanted to share this DVD with and those elements ruined -- I mean RUINED -- any possibility of doing so for me. I would have been stuck trying to defend Batchelor's choice of imagery while he prated about immorality, or his antiquated notions of what constituted the "occult", and the REAL MESSAGE would have been BURIED by these faux pas. Look, if Douggie B. really feels called by God to "condemn" gay marriage or Harry Potter, that's FINE -- let him do so in a different venue, not in tandem with trying to reach people who don't even know God themselves and therefore have no basis for evaluating such things in the Holy Spirit. I say get people to Christ first on whatever basis they can be led to feel their need of Him, that is, the things common to us all as human beings and the things THEY already feel in their heart to be sin, and let GOD then convict them about anything else, and let it BE God convicting and not man. I have to say "Amen!" to this... In my mind, this type of 'evangelizing' is nothing more than attempting to gather people with the same mind as you do from the exapanse of the ocean of people. IOWs, you are fishing for a specific kind of fish. That's not the type of fish that Jesus speicified. In His net were all types of eatable fish. Bass, salmon, trout, ...the uneatable ones were tossed aside, the poisonous one, the eels, the puffer fish.... I hate to wax strong on this subject, but we are not called to fight a culture, but rather to witness and be ambassadors...When can we begin to do that? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Yeah, I always get a kick out of this tolerance thing... TITUS 1 "9": Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. "10": For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: "11": Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. "12": One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. "13": This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; "14": Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 "fables"...now there's a word I haven't used for a while...I wonder..if there is such a thing as an "SDA fable"? Ooooo, I perceive a can of worms on the table! Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Quote: I hate to wax strong on this subject, but we are not called to fight a culture, but rather to witness and be ambassadors...When can we begin to do that? Amen, Neil. Unfortunately, some will never get it, so we can't wait for them to do so. We must bear the light ourselves and forbear with them as with weaker brethren. Doubtless they think the same toward us. Whatever works. As Paul himself stated in Philippians 1: 15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: 16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: 17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. And so it is. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Ooooo, I perceive a can of worms on the table! <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> And next to that is a hot potato Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted February 19, 2005 Author Share Posted February 19, 2005 Before I criticise someone else for their type of evagelism I ask myself if I have won more souls to Christ than they have. That normally puts me in my place. I have heard several people criticise the latin churches for the way they evagelise and yet the latin congregations are growing so fast they cannot build churches fast enough. That doesn't seem to be much of a problem in North America, Western Europe and Austrialia. Some people don't care for Amazing Facts. To them I say, don't watch them. It is that simple. No one needs to criticise them. Jesus said if they are not against us they are for us. He said that in this very context. A couple of the disciples wanted to call fire down from heaven to destroy some that were preaching differently than they were. Seems those disciples' spirit is still alive and well today. I don't know much about the occult. Where I live we have mediums on every other corner and they will be more than happy to hold a seance or help you talk to the dead. Perhaps they arn't part of the occult but that matters little. It is likely that as a result of this coming seminar thousands will be saved and find a love for the Lord. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darlene Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 I like you positive attitude about this, Shane. You are right, Amazing Facts is getting some very good results. We may not always agree with their methods but God is still using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Quote: Before I criticise someone else for their type of evagelism I ask myself if I have won more souls to Christ than they have. That normally puts me in my place. You make a good point, Shane. That is something to be considered. Thank you for making it in a way that I could hear, too (i.e., nicely, so I wouldn't get put on the defensive). Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators LynnDel Posted February 19, 2005 Moderators Share Posted February 19, 2005 It's amazing how God can use efforts that seem lame or off-putting to us, to reach people. That's why there is good in variety; what doesn't reach me or doesn't touch you, tugs at someone else. Nico, you may have a mission before you: Write Amazing Facts and others who don't know the width and depth of the occult; suggest how they can address it in ways that are current and believable to those who know and might listen. Just "thimking". . . LD Quote LD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted February 19, 2005 Moderators Share Posted February 19, 2005 Doug Bachelor has his Amazing Facts program on the web. www.AmazingFacts.org Then click on Media Then click on TV program I think that puts you on a screen where you can pick a Sabbath School lesson study or a church service video. Don't know about the coming crusade, however, whether it'll be available on the Internet or not. Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Quote: I ask myself if I have won more souls to Christ than they have. As I understand it, Shane, you haven't won more souls to Christ than God's other servant. Neither has he won more souls than you, something I believe Nico alluded to eloquently, although rather vociferously, IMHO. And I also believe the primary point she made was of the utmost importance, although I don't really believe I do that very well either. That we are only instruments in the hand of the Great Physician, lifeless without His power, is often lost to us in personal pride, or maybe just ignorance of His plan of salvation. [:"red"] "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think.." [/] Romans 12:3 KJV [:"red"] "Jesus saith unto him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.'" [/] John 14:6 KJV Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Quote: I have to say "Amen!" to this... In my mind, this type of 'evangelizing' is nothing more than attempting to gather people with the same mind as you do from the expanse of the ocean of people. IOWs, you are fishing for a specific kind of fish. That's not the type of fish that Jesus specified. In His net were all types of eatable fish. Bass, salmon, trout, ...the uneatable ones were tossed aside, the poisonous one, the eels, the puffer fish.... I hate to wax strong on this subject, but we are not called to fight a culture, but rather to witness and be ambassadors...[:"green"] When can we begin to do that? [/] Green bold. My emph LHC [:"red"]"...Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME," behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION"-- " [/] 2 Cor 6:2 NASB Emph theirs Just in case some may be a little discouraged about the state of affairs in this little humble remnant in the body of believers, when entering that same body myself, there were 600,000 baptized members. That was about 1958. Now there are 14,000,000, most of whom are in other countries and most having entered within the last 5-10 years. At the present about 1,000,000 more per year are coming before the throne of grace as willing servants of the Most High God. Someone, many are making good ambassadors. [:"red"] "“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ " [/] Matt 25:37-40 Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Quote: Yeah, I always get a kick out of this tolerance thing... I think the key in Nico's quote was that Jesus was being preached. Maybe not always in the best way but Paul rejoiced that He was being preached nonetheless. The Scriptures you have referred to JimBob, seem nowhere to allude to Jesus being preached. Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Very well put Shane! I think that often, we get so bent out of shape because we don't agree with some "liberals' way of doing things or some "convervative's views" on things that we forget that to look at ourselves and say, "well what am I doing for the Lord today, this week, this year? How am I reaching those around me. Do I passionately care about people who do not know Jesus?" One thing I have appreciated about Amazing Facts is that they are conservative without being critical of the denomination. They work hand in hand, unlike many other such ministries. Oh sure, they are conservative and you might not agree with some of their views on things but I have met several of their evangelists and they truely love the Lord and are on fire to tell others about Jesus (not just beasts and numerical prophecies.) Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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