What is the Gospel?

[Dr. Rich]

Look, I know that Satan does not want the truth to be made known and that is perhaps why so many people hesitate to listen to all of today's Sabbath School class. But IF you do, then you would hear and hopefully understand why MM's heart is breaking for all of the Adventists that don't show any urge to search for the truth and understand Revelation. Man, today's class was so inspired by the Holy Spirit that I am still tingling. If you missed, it was recorded at www.blogtalkradio.com/spiritoftruth May ONE 2010 was a very special day!

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.(1 John 2:27

[pnattmbtc]

Regarding the topic at hand, what the Gospel is, I believe it is the revelation of Jesus Christ (not the book, but Jesus Christ Himself, as the revelation of God).

The issue of issues regarding the Great Controversy is the character of God. It is by means of misrepresenting God's character, that the enemy has deceived. Deception is his power. He seeks to vest God with his own attributes of character. Most people, including most Christians, have bought into this lie, believing God to be harsh, severe, cruel, and self-serving, as Satan is in reality, but totally unlike God's true character, which was revealed in Jesus Christ. Few believe God is really like Jesus Christ. Many claim to believe this, but they don't really, as their views of the behavior of God vs. that of Christ is as different as night and day.

Quote:

"Behold," says the Scripture, "the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people; but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and His glory shall be seen upon thee." Isa. 60:2.

It is the darkness of misapprehension of God that is enshrouding the world. Men are losing their knowledge of His character. It has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. At this time a message from God is to be proclaimed, a message illuminating in its influence and saving in its power. His character is to be made known. Into the darkness of the world is to be shed the light of His glory, the light of His goodness, mercy, and truth.

This is the work outlined by the prophet Isaiah in the words, "O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him." Isa. 40:9,10.

Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love. (COL 415)

[Twilight]

Mark wrote: "This is what you are doing Dr Rich. You are presenting legalism and denying Grace."

Matt. 12:30-32: "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me, scatters. Therefore, I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him, but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."

Would blasphemy against the Holy Spirit include telling people that the whole bible IS the inspired Word of God, IF anything in it actually is not? Wouldn't you be calling the Holy Spirit a liar for saying It inspired words when in fact the Holy Spirit didn't? Serious stuff!

Here is the real truth: God HAD to allow Satan access to the New Testament because that would be the ONLY way we (you and me) could even begin to TEST everyone's writings in it with the STANDARD, that being the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses as found in John 14:26 and 17:20.

Hence the need for Jesus to warn His disciples and all of us that it is totally possible to become deceived! The prophecy told in a parable about the wheat and the tares is something not to be laughed at.

Matthew 13:37: "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man." (Therefore this could not have happened prior to Jesus coming to this earth and could not have happened after Jesus left this earth.)

Matt. 13:38: "And the field is the world (Jesus came down from heaven to this world to sow the seed), and as for the good seed, these are the SONS OF THE KINGDOM and the tares are the sons of the evil one." (Please notice that you MUST be in the Kingdom of Heaven to be the good seed/wheat!)

Matt. 13:39-43: "And the enemy who sowed them [after Jesus sowed them] is the devil (Satan), and the harvest is the end of the age (not the end of the world); and the reapers are angels. Therefore, just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at THE END OF THE AGE. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM (Please note that this Kingdom is not the same as the whole World, it is from the Kingdom ONLY), all 'stumbling blocks' and those who commit LAWLESSNESS! And will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. THEN (at that time) the RIGHTEOUS shall shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father, He who has ears, let him hear!"

WOW! Lots of things to look at here: 1) This prophecy is ONLY for all of those inside the Kingdom of Heaven. It is NOT for the whole world as commonly believed. 2) Satan sowed His seed AFTER Jesus sowed His. 3) The harvest is at the end of the AGE and not at the coming in the clouds (compare with Matt. 30:32 above). 4) The 'stumbling blocks' represent everyone who talks trash about those who are leading and teaching the truth. 5) Those who practice 'lawlessness' are included with this group and these are the ones who claim righteousness by faith and saved by grace AND say the whole bible is the inspired word of the Holy Spirit; and 6) the 144k and the 5 wise maids will shine as found in Dan. 12:3.

PLEASE NOTICE THIS HAPPENS BEFORE THE 7TH TRUMPET AND EVEN BEFORE THE TIME OF TROUBLE! This happens when Jesus comes like a thief.

Matt. 12:36-37: "And I say to you, that every careless word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you shall be justified and by your words you shall be condemned."

Have you ever considered joining the Jesus Seminar Dr Rich?

They accept even less of the bible than you do...

Maybe the purer the truth, the less of the bible you need?

You are not the first person to suggest such arguments or variants and you will not be the last.

As soon as someone places their views over scripture and has to remove scripture to prove them, I am done with receiving anything from them.

[Guest]

Have you ever considered joining the Jesus Seminar Dr Rich?

They accept even less of the bible than you do...

Maybe the purer the truth, the less of the bible you need?

You are not the first person to suggest such arguments or variants and you will not be the last.

As soon as someone places their views over scripture and has to remove scripture to prove them, I am done with receiving anything from them.

Well put Mark. I agree 100%. The idea that God HAD to let Satan have a hand in the NT, just so that we could have something to weed out, doesn't even make sense.

The "REAL TRUTH" according to Rich, seems to reside only in his mind. Because what he's trying to say is not in the Bible. Should we not go with scripture, instead of someone elses thoughts on the matter? I think so.

And as usual, the two texts that he gave to back up his view, (John 14:26 and 17:20) don't even touch on what he is trying to say, about us needing something to weed out of the Bible, or about the words of Jesus from the "eyewitnesses" being some sort of test to weed out other portions of scripture with.

[John317]

Quote:

Twilight: Have you ever considered joining the Jesus Seminar Dr Rich?

They accept even less of the bible than you do...

I asked Dr. Rich (or was it Musicman?) that question once before, but he (or one of them) indicated to me that he'd never heard of the Jesus Seminar. It's true that the Jesus Seminar accepts less of the NT. In fact, they accept very little of the gospel of John as genuine words of Jesus. In a sentence where Jesus said, "I come that they might have life and have it more abundantly," the Jesus seminar might say (for example) that Jesus for sure said, "I come..." Why he came or if he came is all still a big mystery to them, and if you point out to them that the part they're rejecting contains the answers to their questions, they will tell you that none of it is any good. So they go on asking why... why did he come and who was he and will he return and why does it matter...

[Dr. Rich]

John, it was me and no, I don't want to have anything to do with them. Satan did to those who are called Christians the same as he did with Adam and Eve.

Satan presented a picture of God that said and is something like this: "Hey, God is LOVE! He will not kill you if you don't obey Him. I know His corrector and His love is unconditional! Look, He made you so why would He even consider getting rid of you? All you have to do is TELL Him you love Him. As I said, He says things that He really does not mean to say and when He told you not to eat from the tree He knew that you couldn't stay away from it. After all, if God didn't want me in the Garden then He would have kept me away from it."

After reading what was written as a reply to what I wrote above, it is clear to me that you have taken Satan's bait--hook and sinker! It was/is Satan who has painted a picture of God's love being unconditional. The gospel of 'lawlessness' is what is now being preached in most of the Adventist churches today. How sad!

[Musicman1228]

Mark said, "As soon as someone places their views over scripture and has to remove scripture to prove them, I am done with receiving anything from them."

Mark, do you not do this very thing with Ellen White, by placing her on par with legitimate Scripture? If you honestly believe that all 28 Fundamentals of the SDA church are valid and God given then you must believe that EGW "Is a continuing and authoritative source of truth", continuing where the Bible left off. IF this is the case (and I am not completely sure this is your own belief) then it is an oxymoron for you to make the statement above. It is my view that anyone that puts EGW as an authority en par or superior to Scripture is on dangerous ground.

[Guest]

Neither Mark nor myself elevate EGW to that level. But you elevatate yourself to that level by thinking you are above scripture, and able to dispence with any that doesn't agree with your wild assumptions and speculation. Just like Mark said.

If anyone does elevate EGW to the level of scripture, they are still on safer ground than you are.

[Dr. Rich]

Richard and Mark, your words and actions speak louder than the reply and it does appear that you place 'her' and the writer of Romans higher or on par with the words and writings of Jesus. (Just my view)

Now Mark, I see you wrote that you will not have anything to do with someone like this? (done receiving anything by them) Can you explain yourself then? Please make up your mind.

[Twilight]

Mark said, "As soon as someone places their views over scripture and has to remove scripture to prove them, I am done with receiving anything from them."

Mark, do you not do this very thing with Ellen White, by placing her on par with legitimate Scripture? If you honestly believe that all 28 Fundamentals of the SDA church are valid and God given then you must believe that EGW "Is a continuing and authoritative source of truth", continuing where the Bible left off. IF this is the case (and I am not completely sure this is your own belief) then it is an oxymoron for you to make the statement above. It is my view that anyone that puts EGW as an authority en par or superior to Scripture is on dangerous ground.

Personally?

The bible and bible alone (accepted Canon of OT and NT) are the sole source of doctrinal truth for the SDA church.

This is the churches position and I hold to that.

But Ellen Whites writings are a spiritual guide that is in place so that we can check that we are sailing a correct course through the bible.

I do not establish my beliefs from SOP, but from the bible.

But the SOP does help me and prevent me from wandering off into the "jungle of foolishness" and "desert of mans opinions"...

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Quote:

Twilight: Have you ever considered joining the Jesus Seminar Dr Rich?

They accept even less of the bible than you do...

I asked Dr. Rich (or was it Musicman?) that question once before, but he (or one of them) indicated to me that he'd never heard of the Jesus Seminar. It's true that the Jesus Seminar accepts less of the NT. In fact, they accept very little of the gospel of John as genuine words of Jesus. In a sentence where Jesus said, "I come that they might have life and have it more abundantly," the Jesus seminar might say (for example) that Jesus for sure said, "I come..." Why he came or if he came is all still a big mystery to them, and if you point out to them that the part they're rejecting contains the answers to their questions, they will tell you that none of it is any good. So they go on asking why... why did he come and who was he and will he return and why does it matter...

Similar to claiming Paul is a false prophet whilst ignoring or removing the book and witness that displays he was an apostle?

The sort of question, where if they humbled themselves to the bible, instead of trying to humble the bible to them, they could understand?

Well that sounds similar to our three wise men that we have here!

They keep trying to humble the bible so that their views can be heard...

Idolatry...

Worship of self...

May God restore them.

:-(

[Dr. Rich]

Twilight, instead of attempting to put what the three of us are writing about into a box and label it, do your own deep research first and then come back with your report on this issue. I would never take anyone's hearsay evidence as fact, unless I did my due diligence and made sure it agreed with the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses. Now, is this such a hard thing to do? If anything does not agree, then what are you suppose to do with it?

Do you know what a 'whistle blower' is? Put yourself in place of someone who finds out that someone has been lying but NO ONE else knows about it and IF you tell them, that they would probably get mad at the messenger instead of the message. Jesus was a whistle blower and look what they did to Him? Jesus said the road is narrow and FEW will be on this road. Well, which road are you on? Do you believe like the majority of Christians do? Why? Please be honest with yourself!

[Lutz13]

Similar to claiming Paul is a false prophet whilst ignoring or removing the book and witness that displays he was an apostle?

The sort of question, where if they humbled themselves to the bible, instead of trying to humble the bible to them, they could understand?

Well that sounds similar to our three wise men that we have here!

They keep trying to humble the bible so that their views can be heard...

Idolatry...

Worship of self...

May God restore them.

:-(

I just skip over their post. I have a hard time believing that Paul's martyrdom was in vain. I also have a hard time believing that someone who has brought millions to Christ would be from Satan...

Since almost every thread is hijacked from those three. It is best to ignore their bait and keep to the topic at hand. If everyone did this, perhaps they would go troll somewhere else.

[Dr. Rich]

Lutz, Hmmm? You claim 'hijacking'? What in the world are you talking about? This thread is about the "Gospel". Which one? You also suggest not to read and just ignore 'us'. What are you afraid of? If you are one of those 'millions' and are sure of your salvation because of the words of Paul, then I suggest you just skip right over what God said in Rev. 3:14-22. Good luck with that!

[Musicman1228]

Rich,

It is apparent you just don't get it. "Highjacking a thread" simply means saying anything that could be construed to be outside of the norms of Adventist doctrine or theology. Any questioning of those issues (in the minds of several people on the forum) automatically means that you are 'highjacking the thread'. If you ask questions about anything that could cast the least doubt on whether the SDA church, Paul and especially EGW has all of the truth then they feel it would have been better for your mother to have drowned you at birth.

[John317]

Speaking as moderator:

It would be helpful on this thread to discuss the message of Jesus and the theology of Paul and all the rest of the Bible's testimony about the gospel. In other words, do not hijack the threads with the conclusion that Paul and Ellen White were false, instead keep the discussion focussed on the evidence of what the Bible and Ellen White teach.

It "hijacks" or stalls the threads when you draw the conclusions all the time and do not direct your remarks to the evidence.

A problem is that you three gentlemen haven't convinced us that you even correctly understand what Paul and Ellen White are saying, so that's what you need to work on (IMHO). From my standpoint, you keep saying things that show you believe what you do because you often misunderstand the evidence (ie, what the writers, such as Paul, are saying). Do you see the problem? So it would be good if you would focus on the evidence instead of on the conlcusions. Hope this helps.

[Twilight]

do your own deep research first and then come back with your report on this issue.

How do you know I have not Dr Rich?

----------------

A non-Christian comes to you and says:

You know what, the bible is a fake, most of it is false, you cannot trust it.

Your response would have to be:

Yes, it is.

Now come and follow Jesus...

-----------------

Shame God has let us roll with the bible for 2000 years before revealing all of these truths to you three about the real state?

Why point it out now?

Or, are you saying that we should agree with all those that constantly attack the bible.

You are no different to them by the way.

You also undermine the scripture, you just say you are a friend of Christianity, whilst they say they are enemies.

You are both seeking to achieve the same ends.

To undermine the Bible.

Mark

[Musicman1228]

Evidence is only valid when the source of the evidence is valid. If the source is compromised in only one area then all ensuing testimony from that source is compromised. There is only ONE source that cannot possibly have been made invalid or compromised even through centuries of translations and copying from the originals and that is the words of Jesus Christ as He gave them to His own disciples. When critically compared the testimonies of Matthew and John completely support each other in confirming the words that Jesus Christ caused them to remember through the power of the Holy Spirit (as Jesus promised to them). There are marginal differences with Mark, and so many differences with Luke that it is evident that Luke had a completely different source than the other gospel writers.

Validating evidence is anathema for those with a strong, immovable faith. You will, however, be held accountable for that evidence that you refused to consider because of your faith.

[Dr. Rich]

Easy Mark, put some scuba gear on and do some deep diving. Things look different down there then when surface swimming.

And no Mark, your comment would NOT be my reply. So Mark, do you believe in a judgment? If so, just what is the standard where one is judge by? What is the foundation for this standard?

Oh, it was there all the time Mark. Problem is, God's prophecy said that only the wise at the time of the end (last generation) would understand. It isn't my fault God said that. He also said that the KOH would be sleeping at that time except for just a few. How about that? Do you believe in these prophecies? No, they were not just predictions either. God knows the future here on earth and what He said will happen I believe it.

Mark, the three of us are NOT attacking the bible! Please read what MM wrote above. If you don't agree with what MM wrote, so be it? It is your choice, but your choice does not necessarily make it truth.

Here is the thing: IF I put you on the stand in court and asked you if you KNEW FOR SURE that everything written in the New Testament was inspired by God the Creator, what would be your answer?

It is a 'yes' or 'no' answer. If you said yes, then I would ask you how do you know? If you answered 'no', then I would ask you: "Do you know how to test the words written in the New Testament?" For that matter, please tell us how to test anything that is written to know for sure if it is true or not?

Mark, if you can't do this, then you have not been diving deep enough.

[John317]

Quote:

Dr. Rich: John, it was me and no, I don't want to have anything to do with them. Satan did to those who are called Christians the same as he did with Adam and Eve.

OK, I was pretty sure it was you I asked, but it seemed like it could have been Musicman I told, too. Anyway, I think I asked you about the Jesus Seminar when we were talking over that good meal at the restaraunt. I really enjoyed our meeting, by the way, and it made me look upon you as a friend, which I still do, despite our differences. I like all three of you guys, and I feel that I know you guys are sincere and have good intentions, although I believe you're wrong. I'm the kind of person, though, who can disagree strongly with someone and it doesn't affect how I feel about them or how I treat them. In other words, my disagreements with people don't make me get angry at them or make me dislike them. I know I'm different that way, and I account for it by the last 21 years of my work with people who have severe behavioral and mental health issues. That work required me to help people who were very difficult and even while they might be trying to kill me, literally. I have felt since then that God put me in that job for a reason. I'm glad I had those experiences. I loved my work but had to leave when the facility closed up, and then I found out I had diabetes really bad.

Anyhow..... Ok, getting back to topic here... Yes, you are right that Satan does the same to Christians as he did to Adam and Eve, but NOT in the way you evidently think. God didn't allow Satan to mix his own directions in with God's directions, did he? In other words, when God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, and when He told them they would die if they ate of the tree, they didn't hear two commands, one from Satan and one from God. Do you see my point? What you are saying about the NT is that God's commands are all mixed up with Satan's teachings, and I know that's wrong.

How Satan tricks Christians is the same way he tricked Adam and Eve. He causes people to accept his messages that oppose God's messages. He causes people to doubt God's word, but the messages are separate. When they heard God's command, they weren't hearing Satan's voice at the same time. You admit that this is the way it was with the Old Testament, but you say it is different with the New Testament. But the God who kept the OT pure for His people also kept the NT pure for His people.

Quote:

Dr. Rich: After reading what was written as a reply to what I wrote above, it is clear to me that you have taken Satan's bait--hook and sinker! It was/is Satan who has painted a picture of God's love being unconditional.

But God's love is certainly unconditional. Yet God's unconditional love is not the same as salvation. There's no condition to His loving people, but there are conditions to salvation. Christ died unconditionally for the world simply because God is love and He loves the people of the world. I'm glad He loves me unconditionally, because if He didn't, I'm sure He would have got rid of me years ago. But I also realize that doesn't mean He will save me in His kingdom irresepctive of what I do.

Quote:

Dr. Rich: The gospel of 'lawlessness' is what is now being preached in most of the Adventist churches today. How sad!

I agree that many have accepted a false gospel that encourages lawlessness, but that is not becasue it's the gospel preached in either the Bible or in the Spirit of prophecy. The same people who believe in the gospel of lawlessness believe it's what Jesus also preached. They misunderstand the gospel; they misunderstand the Bible. Let's not blame the Bible, Jesus, Paul, or Ellen White for this. We have to consider the fact that if people don't want to hear the truth, they will twist the Scriptures. God doesn't force people to acknowledge and understand truth if they don't want the truth. There's plenty of reason in the Bible for people to hang their doubts and lies on if they want to. The reason for false doctrines is not due to the Bible but to the people.

[John317]

Quote:

Dr. Rich: Here is the thing: IF I put you on the stand in court and asked you if you KNEW FOR SURE that everything written in the New Testament was inspired by God the Creator, what would be your answer?

It is a 'yes' or 'no' answer. If you said yes, then I would ask you how do you know? If you answered 'no', then I would ask you: "Do you know how to test the words written in the New Testament?" For that matter, please tell us how to test anything that is written to know for sure if it is true or not?

But if you did that, the other attorney could easily call witnesses from the Jesus Seminar and destroy your theories of how to be sure the book of John gives us only an eye-witness account. Once you start picking the Bible apart book by book and passage by passage, there's no end to it, and you end up without anything secure. For instance, you say that you only accept the books of eyewitnesses-- in this case, John-- but there is a lot of evidence based on NT "authorities" that we can't be sure John wrote the Apocalypse. And these same "authorities" who show Peter didn't write the books of Peter will show you that much of the book of John was not not actually written by John.

I'm surprised you write as if you are unaware of these books and these NT theologians. These "authorities" usually don't believe that Christ literally rose from the dead, and they seldom believe that Jesus is literally returning in glory for His church and will raise the dead and take them to heaven. Why? Because they don't believe those verses were part of Christ's original teachings but were added later. And they think they can prove it, and they would probably be able to convince a jury that they have "proved" it. At the very least, they would sure put a damper on your so-called "tests." At the end of the trial, they would probably be telling you that you haven't studied 'deep enough.'

[John317]

Quote:

Musicman1228:

Validating evidence is anathema for those with a strong, immovable faith. You will, however, be held accountable for that evidence that you refused to consider because of your faith.

So let's quit talking about the conclusions and instead focus exclusively on the evidence. First, we have to make sure we understand what the evidence is saying. Let's keep an open mind and assume for the time being that the whole Bible is the word of God. Therefore, let's discuss what the Bible teaches about the gospel, and forget the conclusions that Paul, etc., and Ellen White were false. We will use all of the NT and all of the OT.

Second, after we have discussed and looked carefully at the evidence-- then it will be time to draw conclusions as to the question of Paul's and Ellen White's genuineness. But let's leave that to the side for now and try to study the evidence with a completely open mind.

[Dr. Rich]

John wrote: "Yes, you are right that Satan does the same to Christians as he did to Adam and Eve, but NOT in the way you evidently think. God didn't allow Satan to mix his own directions in with God's directions, did he? In other words, when God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, and when He told them they would die if they ate of the tree, they didn't hear two commands, one from Satan and one from God. Do you see my point? What you are saying about the NT is that God's commands are all mixed up with Satan's teachings, and I know that's wrong."

Answer: Read the prophecy/story about the wheat and weeds again and you will see that Jesus was the FIRST to sow the seeds. AFTER He left is when Satan sowed the seeds. So your reply is irrelevant and what Satan did with Eve is correct and the same way as in the wheat and tares.

Please notice that whatever Satan sowed AFTER JESUS LEFT was not discovered right away, but only just before harvest and only by the bond servants. In fact, the wheat and weeds grew together from the start until just before harvest and both of the looked just the same. This means that no one could tell them apart.

So answer this: Give me ONE description of a weed that no one could tell the difference from until right before the harvest? Here is the answer: Those who formed their belief upon the foundation of the words and testimony of Jesus Christ, verses those who formed their belief upon the words of others and hold them to be at the same par as what Jesus said and taught. Yes, it is that simple!

[Musicman1228]

Quote:

Musicman1228:

Validating evidence is anathema for those with a strong, immovable faith. You will, however, be held accountable for that evidence that you refused to consider because of your faith.

So let's quit talking about the conclusions and instead focus exclusively on the evidence. First, we have to make sure we understand what the evidence is saying. Let's keep an open mind and assume for the time being that the whole Bible is the word of God. Therefore, let's discuss what the Bible teaches about the gospel, and forget the conclusions that Paul, etc., and Ellen White were false. We will use all of the NT and all of the OT.

Second, after we have discussed and looked carefully at the evidence-- then it will be time to draw conclusions as to the question of Paul's and Ellen White's genuineness. But let's leave that to the side for now and try to study the evidence with a completely open mind.

I consider you to be my friend as well, John. This in spite of our differences. I believe you to be as wrong as you believe me to be. The point is we are still in a concerned and friendly dialogue.

I agree that we must look to the evidence, but in your above statement the very next thing you say is that we should make assumptions. Evidence does not assume anything, it merely is what it is. As soon as you allow assumptions into the mix evidence must fly out the window.

That being said I have already done just what you said to do at the start of my due diligence with respect to truth (many years ago). I did assume that the whole Bible was the very words of God cover to cover, including the cover which says "HOLY BIBLE". Yet over the years EVIDENCE came to light that disabused me of that assumption.

Yes, I know that many of the 'experts' that specialize in textual criticism admit to being agnostic, or worse atheist. Yet there is evidence in what they propose that is valid even when the come to the wrong conclusions. From my standpoint textual criticism supports the concept that there was a person that lived on earth who went by the name of Jesus Christ, and who was then and is now literally the Son of the Most High.

So is there a way that we can stay away from 'assumptions' that will still bring us to agreement on the nature and validity of the evidence?