LifeHiscost Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Craig commented on how resilient the people are. He was expecting them to be depressed and inconsolable, but was surprised to find them smiling and so appreciative of our help. They don't complain or whine. They just keep fighting, and their determination and perseverance are so admirable. I will be ashamed of myself if I ever complain about my life again. There is something special and rare about coming together with other Christians to better the world. I don't know if this experience would have been so positive had we not been traveling with others who share our faith. In spite of the destruction we've seen, we have hope for the future because we know that God will soon put an end to all the suffering and take His children home. We feel privileged to have done His work here. For more about the group's experience, visit http://www.freep.com/voices/sunday/davies23e_20050123.htm. I ran across the excerpts above from an article in the online edition of the Adventist Review, about the help given the tsunami victims, and wondered whether some of us would be so actively involved in dissatisfaction with our brothers and sisters in Christ if we found ourselves so highly motivated to be about our Father's business. [:"red"] "And He said to them, "Did you not know that I must be about My Father's business?" [/] Luke 2:49 NKJV Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 LHC were you involved in this group? I have so often wished I could be a part of efforts like these. Like you, I recognize the value in them not just in helping others (the primary focus) but in the secondary rebound of how the mind is lifted away from self and from our tendency to fill our idle spaces with dissatisfactions. I know whenever I get involved in just passing out bag lunches to homeless folks it lifts my spirits, especially when I can give someone a copy of Steps to Christ and see it touch their heart that someone cares. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 Quote: >>were you involved in this group?<< I recognize the value in them not just in helping others (the primary focus) but in the secondary rebound of how the mind is lifted away from self and from our tendency to fill our idle spaces with dissatisfactions. I know whenever I get involved in just passing out bag lunches to homeless folks it lifts my spirits, especially when I can give someone a copy of Steps to Christ and see it touch their heart that someone cares. Re: >> << Not this specific group. However just as you have seen God's influence for good on your own spirit, when actively involved in purposeful work for Him, my reaction has been similar to your description. There is one thing that has proved difficult with me with some of my own effort in the past. It was biting off more than I could chew, when I had closer to home duties that were more in keeping with God's wishes, as I observed in retrospect. It might best be described by an incident quoted to be from HMS Richard's conversation with a young man, when the young individual inquired whether he ought to become a preacher. Elder Richard's answer; 'Not if there's anything else you can do'. While I can't be sure of the reasons behind such an answer from a person so successful in his field, I've always felt Elder Richard was referring to the need to be sure we were where God called us, even if it was less than where our zeal seemed to draw us. Relating this logic is not designed to point out an answer for anyone in their own personal joy in serving Jesus. It merely reveals a place I could have found more joy with the Lord in lesser duties successful, than failed greater responsibility. [:"red"] "For to draw near to hear and obey is better than to give the sacrifice of fools" [/] Ecc 5:1 Please don't see this scripture as more than a description of my personal journey. Much of my joy with the Lord in service has been marred by faith sullied with selfish ambition. Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I can relate to what you are saying to some degree, LHC. But now with my children grown and my former marriage(s) gone, I feel more at liberty to pursue other fields. Of course right now I have fields close to home, and I'm trying to be sensitive to those needs as well, and make sure I'm not making old mistakes over again (chasing pipe dreams that seem legit because they are spiritual at the expense of real people in my life). So I think I can relate to what I believe you to be saying. I remember being younger and begging God to make me a prophet. I didn't realize the joke was on me and I already was one, but needed to learn the proper use of the gift, like any/all gifts, for His glory and not my gratification. (For the record, to me a prophet is nothing more or less than a messenger who brings the Word -- it is the Word that is important here, not the vessel bringing it, and there is nothing more "holy" about a prophet than about the "common" laboring man; all are one in Christ. Likewise recently I took occasion to listen to myself praying that I wanted to become a missionary, for I yearned for my life to be useful and meaningful! While there is nothing "wrong" with such yearnings, that did make me stop and think for a moment -- how telling. It can be so insidious how self creeps in and spoils things. Obviously before I can function as a prophet or missionary or just a plain humble witness for Christ, I need to be first aware of, then freed from, selfish attachments and ambitions, just like you said. They would only mar the work. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 By the same token, I think that if you have a deep desire to do something, that it doesn't necesarily mean it is "selfish or self-driven". It can be a dream that God has placed in your heart and part of his plan for your life. Have any of you ever read the book called "The Dream Giver"? It is excellent in helping to identify what God might be calling you to do, to see the amazing limitless of God's power to accomplish through us everything from the work next door to a global ministry. I found it very encouraging and thought provoking. It is written as an allegory in such a way that the message comes through very clearly. It is true that we must all be sensative to the mission around us, as in our own homes, our kids, our relatives, church members, c0-workers, neighbors etc desperately need to be shown the love of Jesus through us in tangible ways. However, God just might be calling you in addition to that to some mission outside of even your comfort zone. I find that (within reason) when I am outside my comfort zone, I do not rely on my self but more on God anyway and it is thrilling to see Him come through for you. I am not then tempted in any way to be proud as I know that I didn't have anything to do with the results, it was God and God alone. : ) Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Taylor, welcome to ClubAdventist as I see you are fairly new! And thanks for sharing from the other end of the spectrum. I think there is truth in what you are saying as well. Who wrote the book you mentioned? I have not read it but it sounds interesting. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Complain..?? whine??.. one of my favorite sports!! Speaking of sports... Those who gripe are usually the ones who sit on the bench (pew) instead of being in the game... and... those who gripe are usually starving..because of NFDMTTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 21, 2005 Author Share Posted February 21, 2005 Quote: I can relate to what you are saying to some degree, LHC. >>But now with my children grown and my former marriage(s) gone, I feel more at liberty to pursue other fields.<< >>>So I think I can relate to what I believe you to be saying.<<< >>>>I remember being younger and begging God to make me a prophet.<<<< ** there is nothing more "holy" about a prophet than about the "common" laboring man; all are one in Christ.** ***It can be so insidious how self creeps in and spoils things.*** I remember as a child reading the Christian mandate, [:"red"] "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel." [/] Having been sent to Sunday school (My parents/foster saw the need for their kids) but mixing the sense of duty with the doctrine of burning in hell forever made me live most of my formative years in fearful misery as I saw my lack and it's eternal consequences. That doctrine was one of the main reasons the Adventist faith was so appealing to me. My reasoning being that even though I might miss out on heaven as my eternal home, what could be so miserable about oblivion? I believe all true God-given doctrine brings that peace to the soul, even to the unsaved when it is believed. Re: >> << I'm with you. A lot later I applied counsel from Jesus to one who genuinely desired to follow Him, to my own life when I found too much water under the bridge to follow my first calling as initially desired. [:"red"] "As He was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon-possessed was imploring Him that he might accompany Him. And He did not let him, but He said to him, "Go home to your people and report to them what great things the Lord has done for you, and how He had mercy on you." " [/] Mark 5:18,19 NASB Coupled with another promise, it wasn't a totally restricted plan but seemed to be more fully in control for meeting all personal and influencial needs. It seems personal present conduct would determine whether the gifts were to be most advantageous. [:"red"] "....for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" [/] Rom 11:29 NASB Re: >>> <<< Sounds like you have a good picture. Re: >>>> <<<< One of the different translations of the word 'prophecy' (I believe it to be the Amp) is [:"blue"] ["the declared will and purpose of God."] which would seem to cover the widest span of reality. [/] To me that puts anyone in the context of declaring the will and purpose of God, rightfully designated as a prophet. Contrariwise, that also puts anyone in the position of declaring that which is not His will, to be a false prophet. Something I believe pertains to attempts of individuals who make effort to control others against their will, using the name of God as their authority. Re: ** Knowing my own propensities I try to balance that reality with Jude 8. [:"red"] "Likewise also these dreamers..., reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries" [/] In context that is speaking of the enemies of the gospel. However that is the place I would be were Jesus to relenquish His grasp on me. ditto *** [:"red"] "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages.... And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand." [/] John 10:28 AMP Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I was speaking in this week's SS class about how SDA members are prophets. We are unconscious prophets just by attending church on sabbath. A prophet is usually though of as a person with prescient capabilities...however much of what a prophet did was to be the spiritual voice and conscience for society.. they got in the king and clergy's face. We are prophets to most of Christianity because we say no to the mainstream status quo by our example.. We are at odds with the SUNDAY lie and teaching...and other doctrines. Now I was just thinking of this again and realizing how I was taught, before coming to the SDA church ..how prophecy ceases with the establishment of the early church... Some have heard this on Christian radio programs..just heard it again recently. Here is another reason for the doctrine of cessation of prophecy.. THEY WERE IN THE CLERGY'S FACE..AND ONE WAY TO SHUT UP DISSENT IS TO MAKE A DOCTRINE THAT THERE IS NO DISSENTERS.. how convenient.. You see it is in this denomination too.. Make here a sicko or a liar to void out her words so that the clergy can have free reign and not be confronted. Or neglect her words or make it very unpopular to use her words because that is using a hammer or so UNCHRISTIAN.. Prophet killers for the modern times.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Quote: Re: >> << I'm with you. A lot later I applied counsel from Jesus to one who genuinely desired to follow Him, to my own life when I found too much water under the bridge to follow my first calling as initially desired. [:"red"] "As He was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon-possessed was imploring Him that he might accompany Him. And He did not let him, but He said to him, "Go home to your people and report to them what great things the Lord has done for you, and how He had mercy on you." " [/] Mark 5:18,19 NASB I always chafed at this passage. I always felt like it would be used against me to force me to never have any real part in God's work but to always be stuck amidst people who could not appreciate what God had done for me because first of all they don't believe in God (most of them) and second, they wouldn't believe the experiences I've had (thinking primarily of my Mom and brother here but also some other extended family). I am starting to see it in a different light, but I still find it hard to think any of them would ever become Christians because of me. And I cannot talk to all of them about my experiences because first, some of it has been too private, my journey -- I would have to explain all that stuff about Satan and the incarnation of Babalon (yes, the spelling is deliberate) and everything, and I don't want to "go there" with them. I'd rather move on and forget all that stuff, as best I can. I don't want to talk about things that make me feel ashamed, like the whole sex with Satan thing. They used to be my entire life and make me proud but now as a Christian I don't want to be associated with my former way of life. And I'm still uncertain whether I was actually possessed or just psychotic. I don't want to lie and say it was one if it was the other. Quote: Coupled with another promise, it wasn't a totally restricted plan but seemed to be more fully in control for meeting all personal and influencial needs. It seems personal present conduct would determine whether the gifts were to be most advantageous. [:"red"] "....for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" [/] Rom 11:29 NASB I'm not sure WHAT my gifts are -- they don't seem to fit neatly into any category! All I know is I really want to go back to school and reclaim the life Satan stole from me 21 years ago. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Quote: A prophet is usually though of as a person with prescient capabilities...however much of what a prophet did was to be the spiritual voice and conscience for society.. they got in the king and clergy's face. I read that somewhere -- that the prophet is the conscience for society -- and really liked it. The prophetic gift is based, at least in part, upon an extremely heightened sense of pattern recognition. Prophets see things going on because they detect and match patterns in the ebb and flow of events and human affairs, conduct and interaction, societal and political trends, etc. When the Holy Spirit enters this turf and turns up the heat on this capacity, a visionary experience can ensue where the prophet perceives something "panoramically" -- senses it's spot in the bigger picture -- and can pinpoint its significance for the immediate setting that has repercussions and ripples for the eternal. Quote: You see it is in this denomination too.. Make her a sicko or a liar to void out her words so that the clergy can have free reign and not be confronted. Or neglect her words or make it very unpopular to use her words because that is using a hammer or so UNCHRISTIAN.. Prophet killers for the modern times.. It depends on how "her" words are used (assuming you mean EGW). EGW can be used to enlighten, instruct, enhance, and encourage. OR she can be immorally abused as a cudgel and whip of conformity to do the very things you denounce: maintain status quo and shut up dissent, shut down new thought, keep people from growing. Her writings are a valuable tool. But like all tools, they can be used to build or to tear down. We know (I hope?) which one we are supposed to be doing -- right? Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 The Book "The Dream Giver" is written by Bruce Wilkinson. Another neat book is "Experincing God" by Henry Blackaby. Thanks for the welcome Nicodema. Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I've got the Blackaby book. He's pretty good. Ever read any of John Elderidge's books? Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 Quote: the prophet is the conscience for society -- and really liked it. As I understand it, that's what the Word of God is for. When there were no bibles available it was logical for a prophet as God's spokesperson, to meet the need of those whose conscience wasn't tender enough to know the difference between right and wrong. Even accepting EGW as a spokesperson for God, she herself pointed out that had man read the Word as it was needed, her ministry as a messenger of God would not have been necessary. Carrying this in further logic with the intent of making the Word the primary source of Wisdom, it would seem logical the same is true today. Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 Quote: I'm not sure WHAT my gifts are -- they don't seem to fit neatly into any category! All I know is I really want to go back to school and reclaim the life Satan stole from me 21 years ago. I'm satisfied that when making a decision because another erring human being has told me it is a good decision, works until things begin going wrong. Then the person who gave the original idea is nowhere around to help pick up the pieces. Allowing God to convince, then making my own mind up, saves a lot of recriminations even if the original idea was another person's advice. And I do believe there is much good advice from other members of the body of Christ, especially those who understand the chain of command. [:"red"] "Where there is no counsel, purposes are frustrated, but with many counselors they are accomplished. " [/] Proverbs 15:22 AMP [:"red"] "There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand." [/] Proverbs 19:21 KJV Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Quote: I'm satisfied that when making a decision because another erring human being has told me it is a good decision, works until things begin going wrong. Then the person who gave the original idea is nowhere around to help pick up the pieces. Allowing God to convince, then making my own mind up, saves a lot of recriminations even if the original idea was another person's advice. Thank you for this bit of hard-won wisdom, LHC. It was, in fact, the Lord who first put this idea (to go back to school) into my mind almost a year ago while I was in prayer and in His Word one morning. I heard His voice -- or what I believed to be His voice -- telling me to go and that He would make a way. I heard this twice "inside" me from Him. I was not, myself, thinking about it at the time (that I am aware) and as I was in my devotional time I believed it to have come from Him. Was there a specific reason you chose to share this with me? I'm wondering did you think perhaps it had been someone else's suggestion? I sometimes question whether what I believe to be God speaking really is God speaking or just my own mind. But I see no harm in going back to school, and I figure as long as I keep surrendering it to Him, if it is from Him, He will indeed "make a way" as the voice said, and if not, the way will be shut to me. Right? Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 Quote: But I see no harm in going back to school, and I figure as long as I keep surrendering it to Him, if it is from Him, He will indeed "make a way" as the voice said, and if not, the way will be shut to me. Right? It would seem to me that if you, as an adult with an ongoing knowledge of the Scripture, are schooling to make your way as successful as possible in the world we live in, you cannot help but benefit from formal training. Especially as your desire is to glorify God with what you learn and you trust in His keeping power. [:"red"] "And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come." [/] Luke 19:13 KJV Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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