Moderators Bravus Posted February 20, 2005 Moderators Share Posted February 20, 2005 (reprinted from my blog) I’m not sure where it’s from, but someone mentioned that they’d heard ’shmeat’ used as a general term for all those meat substitutes - NotBacon, Protose, Nutmeat, etc - that some vegetarians eat, and I kinda like the sound of the word. I was raised as a Seventh-day Adventist, so vegetarianism, teetotaling and religion are pretty much tied together in my head. I was thinking about these ‘fake meat’ products - don’t eat meat, but process vegetable matter into the closest possible simulacrum - and realised that lots of contemporary Christian life seems kinda shmeaty… Lots of Christian music sounds exactly like lots of other popular music, unless you listen really closely to the lyrics. Our local Christian station bills itself as ’safe’, and that seems to be a lot of the ethos… make it as much like the real thing as possible, but kinda… Not. Same with books, movies, even computer games - you can find your Christian romances and adventures and… - almost like the real thing, but somehow shmeatier. I dunno - isn’t that all backward? Shouldn’t the life of faith be somehow more authentic? Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 But how can we do that? We come into Christianity having been part of the non-Christian lifestyle. Somehow, I think shmeat lifestyles are a step in the right direction, but we need to look at it as a step, not a resting place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I'm with you, Bravus. We should be the head and not the tail. We should create music, art, literature, etc. out of our own authentic experience, not to market ourselves to the world but from the sheer joy of praising God by generating a unique and organic culture arising from our authentic experiences, thoughts, and feelings. I think we end up living shmeatily instead because we've somehow gotten caught up in this self-falsifying proposition that we are here to "market" Jesus Christ to the world as a product. I've always hated that kind of thinking, personally. Our purpose in this world is the same as was Christ's: to bear witness to the truth. We do that best when living in it authentically, not figuring out how to package it so it sells as a cheap substitute for something it clearly is not. I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has these thoughts! It's really nice to see that the things that matter so much to me matter to someone else in the faith too. I don't often hear others give voice to these kinds of things, and so clearly and precisely, too. You are really a blessing! Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Yeah Bravus, This is the stigma of being worldly..and taking cues from the world.. The music is pathetic.. This is another fallout from NFDMTTS..a short commercial for Jesus and then let the sheeple be exposed to the world for all of the hours of the week. Pathetic, a joke.. Rom 12:2 or Rom 8:7..the people's choice..but the leadership is inept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Bravus, I'm curious what you think would be "more authentic." Not defending shmeat living, but curious. Is it more authentic to listen to Christian music or to secular music which is agitating for social change? Is it more authentic to read historical fiction that is or is not "Christian"? Should we encourage our children to watch only "Christian" programs or any programs? I am just not sure what you mean by more authentic? Perhaps if I were not so pressed for time and checked out your blog, I'd find more of an answer. I guess I'm wondering what you mean by "more authentic"? Concrete details help (because I am something of an Aspie and prefer to link abstract thoughts to concrete examples--otherwise, I have no idea what you're talking about. ). Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 While I cannot answer for Bravus, I, myself have been thinking along the lines of what is authentic versus what is not. I always come back to the thought of the authentic desires that Adam had for Eve. No one told him how he should react to this beautiful woman. No one told him what was beautiful--no magazines, no locker room chats, no Google searching. He just knew because he simply felt. This is the sort of authenticity I am looking for in my relationship with God. I'm not certain that I can ever experience this sort of authenticity. I'm not certain that it is genuinely me, or if it is what I have learned by experience of others. Even then, I question the authenticity of their experiences. Oh for the day that we might all have the feeling that Adam had when all was new and God showed him the way when he was unsure of himself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Quote: He just knew because he simply felt. This is the sort of authenticity I am looking for in my relationship with God. This is the sort of authenticity I had in my relationship with Satan. In fact, it was precisely how Satan took control of me. I still remember him saying, "You will worship me ... one day ... soon. Because you want to." (even though I'd just told him NO) "... and you know you want to, because you can feel it." (Yeah, because he was directly infusing sexual ecstasy into my entire spinal column at the time.) Hmmm. Kind of brings us (or maybe just me?) back to Michelle's question. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I've mentioned these thoughts to my pastor a while back. He said that while he thought it would be truly great if we could experience God that way, it's not a really practical way to worship. Wanna know what he said was the key??? Obedience. Yep, he used the "o" word! Obey God. When we obey, we learn to love Him and we begin to feel that love returned. (I still want that authenticity though.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Quote: Oh for the day that we might all have the feeling that Adam had when all was new and God showed him the way when he was unsure of himself! [:"red"] "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." [/] 1 Corinthians 13:12 KJV [:"red"] "And look forward to and await the coming of His Son from heaven, Whom He raised from the dead--Jesus, Who personally rescues and delivers us out of and from the wrath which is coming and draws us to Himself investing us with all the privileges and rewards of the new life in Christ [the Messiah]. " [/] 1 Thessalonians 1:10 AMP Pure joy. To be given to all those who look for Him with fond anticipation. Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Quote: I dunno - isn’t that all backward? Shouldn’t the life of faith be somehow more authentic? The question sounds authentic, Bravus. However, from a different perspective it seems to aim at rooting out the tares, that the church might be pure, such as you and I are. Certainly these types of individuals who eat shmeat, or look upon those who do such terrible things such as sell shmeat must be rooted out lest the whole of the body of believers be polluted. [:"red"] "... all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows..." [/] Rom 3:23 Amp It seems we all have some odious part of our character of which we can only hope no one else catches the scent. Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 There is always the danger of invoking the "authenticity police" so to speak -- which I think Michelle's question provokes us to confront (though whether she meant it that way or not, I cannot tell!) For example (will pick on self here rather than Bravus) -- I wrote about artistic expressions arising from authentic experience as Christians rather than strained attempts to package and market Jesus as a "product" using imitations of the world's artistic products. Yet who's to be the judge of whether an artist, such as Casting Crowns for example, is giving rise to an "authentic" expression or merely trying to package and sell a substitute for the world's pop music? Ultimately who would judge such a thing? That's where the "authenticity police" (so to speak) could be invoked, and the "latter end would be worse than the former." Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 22, 2005 Author Moderators Share Posted February 22, 2005 Great questions, Michelle and LifeHisCost. Remember that 'the Disclaimer' is linked from all my posts, reminding everyone that I value inner-directed critique rather than outer-directed. That is, this is about *me* trying to live more authentically, and encouraging those who wish to to do so too. It's definitely *not* about judging the authenticity of others: I think that's actually impossible by definition, since I don't have enough access to their experience to even *know* whether it's authentic. OK, with all that important stuff out of the way... I chose 'shmeat' as the metaphor because I see it as being about trying to fake meat. For me, I would see authentic vegetarianism as just finding great ways to serve fresh fruit and vegetables, and revelling in the colours, flavours and textures of that. The shmeat approach is different - take vegetable protein and try really, really hard to make it look and taste like meat. It's unoriginal, and artificial. Maybe, as Chrys said, it's a stepping stone, and I have no major argument with the products or those who eat them, but it just seems like living on the artificial, hungry for the real... Same with the other issues - Christian music, absolutely. But some of it is just awfully shmeaty. That is, it doesn't seem to me (and I'm just judging what I want to listen to, not what people can play or other people can listen to) like the acceptable alternative. I listen to some of these bands and say (for example) - "OK, that's the Christian Nickelback". It's so derivative, and it's just an artificial version of what the Christian young person *really* wants but thinks is unhealthy. What I'm calling for is believers who are leaders, not followers, and who create and live in ways that are meaningful to them, not in pale imitation of the world. By all means, have Christian historical novels, but they should be good as novels in themselves, and speak to human and spiritual experience in deep ways, not be pale, sanitised imitations of bestsellers. So I'll try to *be* authentic - the books I write will be sui generis (original), not attempts to copy and cash in on an existing genre. And I'll support Christian artists in all fields who are doing likewise. Definitely no 'authenticity police' <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> - as long as Casting Crowns sound nothing like U2! Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Great question/metaphore..... I am just free thinking here about this faux vegetarianism, this using process vegetable protien as 'meat'... To my mind, it comes down to being real or reacting to society [ and I am including the Christian community as well as society in general]. I am reminded of a story attributed to Abe Lincoln who rescued a pig stuck in the mud. As he reflected upon that incident, he said that he thought he was saving the pig for some noble cause, ie saving the life of another creature from some horrible fate. But as he further reflected, it occured to him that he was saving the pig for a selfish reason. He did not want to feel badly about the pig. Was ol' Abe being 'real'/authentic in his rescuing the pig? Well, at first he thought he was...but then he realized that he was reacting to his own emotions. With so much information being tossed at us at so many levels, can we really ever be 'authentic'? Are we not just reacting to the practicalities of daily living? Would this be a good place to mention prayer and communing with God? Recentering our lives and attempting to react with authentic motives as He would direct us? Well, so much for free thinking...Too much thought/information and choices in which direction to go..... I wonder how you will react? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 22, 2005 Author Moderators Share Posted February 22, 2005 I will react by directing you to Umberto Eco's 'Travels in Hyperreality' and its discussion of the real fake and the fake fake. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 22, 2005 Author Moderators Share Posted February 22, 2005 Slightly more seriously, I also don't think 'authenticity' has to become some new touchstone, lodestone or ideal - the pursuit of authenticity is like the pursuit of happiness: pointless and self-defeating when sought as an end in itself, only available as a by-product of another quest. I think you have it right, Neil: seeking prayerfully to live within God's will for us (but not the shmeaty alternative versions culture tries to impose) is a quest in itself that will yield authenticity as a side benefit. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Yes, it's easy to get caught up in the trap of "being seen as authentic" and/or "passing oneself off as authentic" rather than living authentically. Self-image becomes a trap no matter what you're going for in life. It can make traps out of perfectly legitimate goals and aspirations. Self-image I define as something like "needing to be seen as a person who is being myself" rather than simply being -- myself. (this is an inner-directed critique, LOL) Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Quote: Yes, it's easy to get caught up in the trap of "being seen as authentic" and/or "passing oneself off as authentic" rather than living authentically. Acuthencity or being real is a trap....It also gets mired in the presses of daily living, with the information age bombarding you as to who you should be..."Who are you?" ...That is the first question that needs figuring out. And unfortunately, it isn't just the teen years that this come up....Once a person figures out who s/he is, or wants to be, then you move heaven and earth to become that person. The only thing that a person can do, thru prayer and communion with God is to work on your intregrity. There are enough battles there to keep you busy.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Quote: I will react by directing you to Umberto Eco's 'Travels in Hyperreality' and its discussion of the real fake and the fake fake. Oh please....I am confused enough with "The Hitchicker's guide to the Galexy" ... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Quote: The only thing that a person can do, thru prayer and communion with God is to work on your intregrity. There are enough battles there to keep you busy.... There is another facet to personal integrity that seems to come up in this 'shmeaty generation' (borrowed description), especially as I view one of the wiser principles of living the everyday life as a disciple of Christ. [:"red"] "Whatsoever you eat...drink...do, do all to the glory of God." [/] 1 Cor 10:31 In pursuit of the ideal, with the restrictions of the culture we live in, it seems imperative to recognize the goal of ideal in personal conduct is not what we will be rewarded on. But rather the effort to reach that ideal when it is recognized. Shmeaty may be the best some are able to do at this moment. And they will be rewarded according to their best efforts, for the praise of the Lord they wish to please. Not according to someone's dim view of their own expectations of another's conduct. Lift Jesus up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_McQueen Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 I read an article a while back lamenting the management and marketing models of business being used as models for Christians, i think it was on ooze.com or something. anyway it made me think that there is nothing wrong per se with adopting tools to communicate faith and belief but sometimes it becomes so slick and packaged and programme driven that you kind of have to stop and ask, where is this all heading. For example 3abn to me just reminds me too much of TBN. This is not to say that 3ABN is not creditworthy but this is the impression that it leaves on my mind. Then we have many of our so called crossover musicians dropping or losing emphasis to God in their songs so it can be played in the club/shop,etc. For those of us who read stuff like Barna and other such sites, blogs which monitor trends in faith, etc it seems many youth are presented with an unparalleled exposure to multi media to spread the message but unfortunately sometimes with a nice packaged benevolent vending machine God who never gets angry, and many who are not content with this are starting to seek a deeper more intimate less packaged relationship with God. I mean come on, a WWJD pepper spray!!! What next!!?? This is my truth Quote Firstborn Ministries: Spoken and written word, without apology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted February 24, 2005 Moderators Share Posted February 24, 2005 I agree, David. There's a very fine line between the type of "show-biz" productions used on TV by Faith for Today and Voice of Prophecy (productions that are required in order to attract today's viewers)... and the real show biz that comes from worldly organizations. They're very much alike in their style. [i don't know about 3ABN, having never seen it.] I can see how it would have been very easy for, say, Tammy Fay Baker or her ex-husband to cross over into worldly behaviors. They begin to think of themselves more as entertainment personalities than as instruments in the hand of God. Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Quote: Tammy Fay Baker or her ex-husband to cross over into worldly behaviors. There's an old saying not repeated too much today. "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder." This can be applied to behavior that we see as well as other circumstances of life. What is, is always worth acepting as it is. Usually when our feelings or emotions determine what "things" are, those things become tarnished. Very seldom do "they" fare better. IMHO it's due largely because many of us do not fulfill 1 Cor 13:7. [:"red"] "Love...is ever ready to believe the best (of every person)..." [/] parenthesis mine. Lift Jesus up!! [:"red"] [/] Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 25, 2005 Author Moderators Share Posted February 25, 2005 LHC, I take your point, honestly, but it's not about judging others. It's never been about judging others. It's about each of us trying, in God's power and for God's glory, to live a life that's real. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 As I understand your Disclaimer, Bravus, it's about INNER directed critique -- these concepts we explore should be about applying them to ourselves and how we ought to live, not about pointing fingers at others and telling them how to live. Unfortunately sometimes we have to use illustrations and examples to make a point, and that can be misconstrued as finger-pointing. Is there perhaps a better way to illustrate a concept which wouldn't invoke that spectre? Just musing and ruminating here.... Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 25, 2005 Author Moderators Share Posted February 25, 2005 Actually the concept that makes this make sense for me is this one: I can't find the quote now, but C S Lewis said somewhere that we get confused because we see the spiritual world as somehow gauzy and ephemeral and this world as reality, whereas in fact it is the other way around. God is the Ultimate Reality, and if our experience is grounded in that it *will* be authentic and real, and people will see that in us, as they saw it in Jesus. Why would we chase the fleeting fashions of the world, that are even more ephemeral yet? This is not the cry of a conservative - that would just be to chase the fleeting fashions of the past rather than those of the present and future - but that of a radical. What would it look like if what I do and create was founded in Ultimate Reality? I don't really know, and I'm trying to find out. I doubt it'd look shmeaty, though. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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