Moderators John317 Posted June 1, 2010 Moderators Share Posted June 1, 2010 AP source: US thinks No. 3 al-Qaida official dead Associated Press Writer Kimberly Dozier, Associated Press Writer – 11 mins ago WASHINGTON – In what could be one of the hardest blows to al-Qaida since the U.S. campaign against the terrorist organization began, the group's No. 3, Sheikh Sa'id al-Masri, is believed to be dead, killed by a U.S. Predator drone strike, a U.S. official said Monday. The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said word was "spreading in extremist circles" of his death in Pakistan's tribal areas in the past two weeks. There were multiple postings on Jihadist websites by al-Qaidas so-called General Command, announcing his death, according to both the IntelCenter and SITE Intelligence Group. SITE said Monday's announcement also stated that his wife, three of his daughters, his granddaughter, and other men women and children were killed. Al-Masri has been reported killed before, in 2008, but this is the first time his death has been acknowledged by the militant group on the Internet. Al-Masri, also known as Mustafa al-Yazid, was the group's prime conduit to Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, and he was key to day-to-day control, with a hand in everything from finances to operational planning, the U.S. official said. The official says his death would be a major blow to al-Qaida, which in December "lost both its internal and external operations chiefs." Al-Masri has been one of many targets in a U.S. Predator drone campaign aimed at militants in Pakistan since President Barack Obama took office. The Egyptian-born militant made no secret of his contempt for the United States, once calling it "the evil empire leading crusades against the Muslims." "We have reached the point where we see no difference between the state and the American people," al-Masri told Pakistan's Geo TV in a June 2008 interview. "The United States is a non-Muslim state bent on the destruction of Muslims." For the rest of the news article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_al_qaida_believed_killed Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Someone who is equally as virulent will take his place. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 2, 2010 Members Share Posted June 2, 2010 Heard that on the news today. Very surprised that they would even let anyone know that he was killed. Usually they wouldn't admit to that. Wondering if they are trying to say that he died and than he'll go into hiding. Just wondering! pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 2, 2010 Members Share Posted June 2, 2010 Someone who is equally as virulent will take his place. That was my thoughts also when I first heard this. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted June 2, 2010 The US government believes they got him, and apparently they not only got him but they also got his whole family. They weren't trying to kill the wife and children, but when a person becomes a terrorist and does what this man was doing, they need to realize that they are putting all their loved ones-- or anyone around them-- at risk, too. Based on the evidence, I think we can be confident he's been killed. In war, you try to kill your enemy as quickly as possible. If you don't plan on killing the enemy, you shouldn't go to war. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 2, 2010 Members Share Posted June 2, 2010 In war, you try to kill your enemy as quickly as possible. If you don't plan on killing the enemy, you shouldn't go to war. Good point. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted June 2, 2010 Quote: John317: In war, you try to kill your enemy as quickly as possible. If you don't plan on killing the enemy, you shouldn't go to war. Quote: pkrause: Good point. pk I should've added, "And if you don't plan on dying, you shouldn't go to war, either." Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 2, 2010 Members Share Posted June 2, 2010 I should've added, "And if you don't plan on dying, you shouldn't go to war, either." Exactly! I can still remember when we went into Iraq, everyone or at least must were for us going. But than as it dragged on and we started losing men and woman, people started to go against us being there. Just like now those that were for us going into Iraq, and knowing many would die, are complaining that we should get out because men and woman are dying! pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted June 2, 2010 Quote: pkrause: Exactly! I can still remember when we went into Iraq, everyone or at least must were for us going. But than as it dragged on and we started losing men and woman, people started to go against us being there. Just like now those that were for us going into Iraq, and knowing many would die, are complaining that we should get out because men and woman are dying! pk Yes, makes you wonder what people are thinking. People going into war should realize that it is almost always unpredictable and human beings on both sides get blown to pieces. In the end there's nothing pretty about war except the flowers on the caskets and the graves. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted June 3, 2010 Members Share Posted June 3, 2010 The US government believes they got him, and apparently they not only got him but they also got his whole family. They weren't trying to kill the wife and children, but when a person becomes a terrorist and does what this man was doing, they need to realize that they are putting all their loved ones-- or anyone around them-- at risk, too. Based on the evidence, I think we can be confident he's been killed. In war, you try to kill your enemy as quickly as possible. If you don't plan on killing the enemy, you shouldn't go to war. Don't you find it both interesting and disturbing that according to a recent Pew Forum poll, American Christians to a high degree(62% of white evangelical Protestants) approve the use of torture but clearly are against abortion. http://pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/The-Religious-Dimensions-of-the-Torture-Debate.aspx So, I ask, is it okay to kill adults but not unborn fetuses? Looks like we pay lip service to the Biblical admonition of "Love thy enemy"? Alex (wondering if God loves terrorists too?) Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 3, 2010 Administrators Share Posted June 3, 2010 Yes, loving your enemies strongly implies not killing them. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Don't you find it both interesting and disturbing that according to a recent Pew Forum poll, American Christians to a high degree(62% of white evangelical Protestants) approve the use of torture but clearly are against abortion. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Yes, loving your enemies strongly implies not killing them. If your family were being attacked and you had the opportunity to call 911 would you? It would seem to me you would not as your enemies would stand a good chance of dying at the hands of the people you called. Putting others in the place of doing what you believe is wrong is as wrong as you doing it yourself. For me,I would be praying and calling 911 in that order.Hoping that the police would come with their best and most capable to protect my family. If the "bad guy" is killed it was a choice he made Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted June 4, 2010 Members Share Posted June 4, 2010 Bonnie, I share your concerns and maybe I should have expresed myself differently. What dismays me is the "gleeful" rhetoric expressed in the previous posts describing the execution of this terrorist, his family and others (who very well may have been innocent?). How can we as Christians revel in the death of any fellow human? We should be sad that his choices and actions resulted in his justifiable death. Just becauses he deserves to die, should we take both joy and pride in this event? I strongly believe God grieves over the death of all of His creation. Alex Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Bonnie, I share your concerns and maybe I should have expresed myself differently. What dismays me is the "gleeful" rhetoric expressed in the previous posts describing the execution of this terrorist, his family and others (who very well may have been innocent?). Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted June 4, 2010 Members Share Posted June 4, 2010 Bonnie, With all due respect because I do not know you on a personal basis, I can only respond to your statements with a question: "Why are you so angry?" Everything I have read that you have written sounds so angry as if you have suffered a great hurt? All I have tried to do is express a concern for the perceived lack of Christian compassion for our fellow man. Therefore I hope you take this with a dollop of Christian sympathy since as we are brothers and sisters in Christ, we struggle daily with sin - our own and that of others. Alex ( trying to esteem others as better than myself ) Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Bonnie, With all due respect because I do not know you on a personal basis, I can only respond to your statements with a question: "Why are you so angry?" Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 4, 2010 Members Share Posted June 4, 2010 Might be a bit disturbing that you are comparing the two. One is totally,completely and always innocent,the same can't be said for terrorists.Nor are they waterboarded or sleep deprived just because someone feels like it. No matter what your view on abortion any rational person knows the child is innocent. The vast majority of abortions are because of convenience. A minority are aborted for health reasons or rape or incest. Depends on if the adult in question is attempting to kill you or as in 9/11,thousands.That has nothing to do with the unborn. If my sons had been in that building and someone had the information to save them,I would have gladly brought the water. Watching those terrified people leaping to their death to escape being burned to death makes a little waterboarding a good investment. Does loving your enemy mean that any conduct,any behavior,any attempt to kill you or thousands mean you stand there and do nothing? If married you simply hand over wife and children to these terrorists God loves as well. You might be able to answer that very easy by some in depth bible reading. Did God love Goliath when he presented a danger and was hit upside the head by David? How about all those that died with Samson? Being crushed to death doesn't sound like my idea of fun. Seems God gave Samson the strength to bring the whole thing down on people that were loved by Him. What aborted baby has been at the heart of terror,torture and death. What aborted baby has been responsible for the beheading of the young man in Iraq? Not only kill him in a reprehensible way,but to take a video so we could get the full impact of how evil they were Very excellent points Bonnie. pk Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted June 4, 2010 Members Share Posted June 4, 2010 Bonnie, It is obvious that we see things from a different perspective. But it's good to know that Jesus has the last say on all of this. Alex Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Bonnie, It is obvious that we see things from a different perspective. But it's good to know that Jesus has the last say on all of this. Alex Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 4, 2010 Administrators Share Posted June 4, 2010 I was a little peeved when I answered Tom.His reply is the stock answer from some SDA's,yet they will rely on the police for protection if given the opportunity. If they or their family are being threatened they don't appear to have qualms about calling someone else to do what they claim they are against.Even knowing that someone may die because of their call,they still will want the men with the guns to come when called. Not wishing to dwell on this part... But being "a little peeved" was quite obviously within the anger spectrum sufficient to give a hint of what Alex is suggesting.... But what you haven't had the benefit of is my response which I haven't had time to post. Since you don't really know me, you really cannot know how far off the mark your assumption about me really is. The words of Jesus to love my enemies, turn the other cheek, etc. smack me brutally hard right between the eyes of my true nature and instinctive response to a threat to the safety and well being of my family and to me. I know what I am capable of and that includes a frightening realization from past experience that I hesitate now to predict with the degree of certainty you express about what you think I would do. But if I would hazard a guess about myself under such circumstances, calling 911 would be an option, but probably not the first priority. I am fairly certain that I would fight back with all my might and kill with my own bare hands if necessary. Knowing that I am capable of successfully carrying out that quick instinctive response substantially intensifies the impact of Jesus' words to me. I am disturbed and deeply humbled at the stark contrast between Him and me and all the conviction that implies. But Jesus' words still stand. I can say nothing more. I dare not qualify or minimize them. They are the standard by which I am judged and found desparately wanting. I cannot rationalize my circumstances, behavior or inner reality to think I meet, or even come close to His expectations. Lord, have mercy on us all. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Not wishing to dwell on this part... But being "a little peeved" was quite obviously within the anger spectrum sufficient to give a hint of what Alex is suggesting.... Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Some years ago we had a rapist running free.PO could not catch him. He attacked the wrong woman. Picturing this event right after it happened almost made you laugh but was deadly serious. A young woman was attacked in her garage.Afterwards she said at first she was paralyzed with fear. Then she got mad.Recognizing this was the rapist that the police were trying to catch she made up her mind she would not be one of his victims nor would he be able to do this to another. She was a tiny little woman.He was a rather good sized man.Somehow she managed to grab a bat that was in the garage and went after him.The attacker said she became a crazy woman and was beating him. He ran from the garage and tried to get away. She happened to be a runner and caught him and beat him again and again. A neighbor seeing the commotion called 911. He got away and ran again,right into the arms of the police. This quivering mass of manhood cowered behind the police begging for protection as she was trying to kill him. When interviewed the fury in that woman at the thought of all the women he had raped came thru the TV. According to the tone of some posts here she would have been in the wrong. I am pretty sure the attacker would have been hard pressed to feel the love in each strike of the bat.Nor did she turn the other cheek,nor forgive him 7 x 70 as he was attempting to rape her. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted June 4, 2010 Administrators Share Posted June 4, 2010 And nobody is denying the reality of the evil of this world and what survival in it seems to require. Evil abounds. Evil submits temporarily to evil. But evil does not subdue evil in the end, it only magnifies and multiplies it. The retribution cycle of countering force with equal force defines the powder keg of life, and death, in the Middle East. It does not get better. It gets worse. And Scripture confirms this as the fate of the world that plays by those rules. Jesus came to change all that and announced a whole new order of things for His kingdom. The only way to overcome evil is with good. He said for our eternal good and survival beyond the evil of this world we need a 180 degree turn in the opposite direction. Otherwise we all die. "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword." That's the earthly sinful human way. He expects and desires better for us. The point is that if we presume to identify with God's kingdom we must lift up the starkly and startlingly contrasting words of the One we claim to follow as Christians that are so diametrically opposed to the very things we experience in trying to survive in this evil world. If we are to be a part of the Kingdom of God, we must change our ways of dealing with strife and evil. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth eventually leaves everyone blind and toothless. Jesus said something quite different from that old order of things. We may not like it or see how it is even remotely possible given the evil we live with in this world. But it is the Truth we must desperately strive for. I would prefer to not let go of and give up so easily on the words of Jesus. I cling to them as our only hope of eternal survival. If I echo the first blood rhetoric of this world and not His words, how is anyone going to know I follow Him and not the guy with the big guns? What was it that Jesus said would mark His followers distingushing them from the rest of the world? Yes, loving my enemies does strongly imply not killing them, even if it goes against my very human and sinful nature and experience in this violently evil world full of angry people, like you and me. Those are not empty words. They are our only hope of eternal survival. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 And nobody is denying the reality of the evil of this world and what survival in it seems to require. Evil abounds. Evil submits temporarily to evil. But evil does not subdue evil in the end, it only magnifies and multiplies it. The retribution cycle of countering force with equal force defines the powder keg of life, and death, in the Middle East. It does not get better. It gets worse. And Scripture confirms this as the fate of the world that plays by those rules. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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