What do you think of these beliefs?

[John317]

Quote:

John317: These beliefs are being written in books and distributed to church members and taught on the radio, and all with the benifit of the church name.

Quote:

mrsducky: Could you say more about spreading these beliefs with the benefit of the church name? Are you talking about "independent ministries" or groups within the church? Thanks.

I think most of the independent ministries are in fundamental agreement with what the church teaches but some of them are teaching doctrines in direct contradiction not only of SDA doctrines but of basic biblical and Christian teachings.

http://web.mac.com/spiritoftruth/iWeb/STM/The%20Spirit%20of%20the%20Church.html

http://web.mac.com/spiritoftruth/iWeb/STM/About%20Us.html

[GreatLakesGramma]

Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma

This man should definitely not be teaching an Adventist Sabbath School class. He is not even a Christian if he believes all those things. He is deceived and a deceiver. He should be removed, not only from any leadership position, but from the church as well.

The 'if' is the most significant part and wise part of your post. As has been shown ... they are NOT his beliefs. He has allowed all denominations to post and express THEIR beliefs.

Redwood, I'm talking about the man whose blog Olger posted the link for, not the one John317 posted. I am NOT referring to the man with the website where he lets others post whatever they want.

[John317]

Quote:

GreatLakesGramma:

Redwood, I'm talking about the man whose blog Olger posted the link for, not the one John317 posted. I am NOT referring to the man with the website where he lets others post whatever they want.

If you're referring to the blog that olger posted the link for, then you and Woody are talking about the same website. Olger's post was about Dr. Leland Kaiser's website:

http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2007/03/shameless-plug-leland-kaiser-gnostic.html

He writes "Gnostic notes" and refers to himself as a "gnostic Christian."

He's the one Woody was talking about, who lets other people post whatever they want.

[LifeHiscost]

1) "A special Deva (angel) looks after each animal species. If you have great love for one or more of these animals, you will attract the attention of its presiding Deva. A special gift of the Deva is enabling you to communicate with members of its species. This is a special type of human/animal thought transference. It permits the animals to call out to you and to guide you in special times of your need."

2) That there is an "idea stream" that encircles the earth and all we need to do is tap into that idea stream with our subconscious and we can gret GREAT ideas."

3) That we can communicate with our dead ancestors through our DNA.

4) That each of us have "soul covenants" that are affected by negative karma. Thus you can have contact with your "essence" through higher dimensions.

All these ideas listed lead away from a personal Savior Who chooses to give the guidance best to meet every individual's need. Therefor it would be coming from an anti-Christ.

"Dear children, the last hour is here. You have heard that the Antichrist is coming, and already many such antichrists have appeared. From this we know that the last hour has come."1 John 2:18 NLT

" But you belong to God, my dear children. You have already won a victory over those people, because the Spirit who lives in you is greater than the spirit who lives in the world. "1 John 4:4 NLT

Joy !

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Woody: Yes TS. It's a business blog where this SDA member allows all denominations and beliefs to post their thoughts and beliefs. They do not necessarily reflect on this SDAs beliefs. He openly allows all of his co-workers the opportunity to express themselves.

I think TS was responding to my post in which I spoke of an SDA church and showed a link to a website other than the one Olger posted.

I recall a war waged in heaven over the ideas being expressed and a third of the inhabitants being expelled as a result of those ideas. It would seem to me that when one wishes to express ideas contrary to the Word, it would be good to go where the Word is not appreciated, that is, of course, unless one is trying to overthrow the Kingdom of the Word.

We can see the same scenario being pursued in the USA which, if the Lord were to delay His coming long enough, would undermine the principles that built this nation until it collapsed.

Even so, come Lord Jesus!

[Guest truthseeker007]

What the problem is with New Age "biblical" concepts is that they sound very sweet and therefore are an entrance to all kinds of New Age lies like Christ Conciousness. What i recall from my time as a New Ager was that it sounded sooo good for me that it became addictive and i didn t want to hear anything about the hard plain biblical truth anymore. So what this guy is doing is, he is opening doors to satanic lies. Gnosticism is just a form of Christianity invented by satan to counterfeit the true gospel.

This guy has a lot of earthly credentials etc. so now he is boasting, thinking he is able to invent a new exciting comfortable truth. To argue with other people about their beliefs is of course recommendable, but this guy seems to be open minded in the sense that he has already accepted gnosticism and now he wants to tie his beliefs with the belief systems of other religions. This cannot be tolerated since this church is to be a banner of truth for all the world; pure and united in truth. It s like when you are in a war, somebody steps up and says "maybe the enemy is not so bad, they are just like us, maybe we should listen to what they ve gotta say"

Anyway i was thinking about biblical prophecy. Is it true that bible prophecy can be revealed by 1. Finding out what the symbols mean. 2 finding similar stories (for example Jesus said that Elijah had already come when he ment John the Baptist). So there are two principles which are able to take away all the doubt about biblical prophecies?

[olger]

Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma

This man should definitely not be teaching an Adventist Sabbath School class. He is not even a Christian if he believes all those things. He is deceived and a deceiver. He should be removed, not only from any leadership position, but from the church as well.

The 'if' is the most significant part and wise part of your post. As has been shown ... they are NOT his beliefs. He has allowed all denominations to post and express THEIR beliefs.

Uhh...incorrect! What he writes in his blog is his own writing.

The excerpt you inserted is regarding his website, not his blog. I am willing to believe the best that you don't have an agenda to defend Kaiser, that you simply misunderstood.

carry on,

og

[olger]

Redwood has incorrectly said that Kaiser has not written or believes the things in his blog. That is untrue - all these blog entries were written by Leland Kaiser and personally signed by him (not sure why Redwood has come to the defense of Leland Kaiser). But don't take my word for it, feel free to check out his website at

http://gnosticnotes.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2010-05-31T09%3A43%3A00-07%3A00

May the Lord give you discernment as you read:

"The teachings of Jesus went far beyond what is recorded in the bible, although for the most part they do not contradict the sacred scriptures."

"Your soul is a way station between your Spirit and your mental, emotional, and physical vehicles. It transmits messages from the Spirit to these vehicles and from these vehicles to the Spirit. It acts as a valve, allowing only a certain amount of Spirit to flow into your lower vehicles. God as Spirit also lives through you and learns from your life via this important soul/Spirit connection. As the soul becomes more refined, it permits more and more of Spirit to flow through you. You are on the path of enlightenment."

"The life you are now experiencing is the life you have created for yourself. No one else caused it. Your internal hologram of consciousness organizes external reality events. Your personal and professional environments are simply the third dimensional solidifications of your fourth dimensional thought forms. Change your thinking and you change your life. Your past is largely a fiction you maintain and your future is a vision that you will realize. Both are generated by consciousness and both can be altered by consciousness. Such is your power as a creator -- an awesome power indeed!"

"It is always tempting to complain about what is wrong with something rather than seek to discover what is right about it. By so doing, you give up all the leverage you need in order to change it. In ancient times this insight was worded as -- “resist not evil.” Focus on the good and evil flees from you. It is a simple matter of understanding the attraction and repulsion of psychic energies. The Lightworker focuses on light, not darkness. By so doing, she enlightens everything she touches."

"Less than one tenth of one percent of you has shown up in your current lifetime. Most of you is held in reserve in the higher dimensions. Unless you have contact with your essence in these dimensions -- you have no idea who you really are or what you bring to the table."

"If you succeed in your earth task -- you take that gain and add it to what you already are in the higher dimensions. That is how God learns through you. We see this in the Master, Jesus. He set aside his power and glory to come to earth, live like a common man, and thereby build a bridge from this fallen planet to heaven. Only late in life, did Jesus begin to remember who he really was or the details of his agreement with God the Father."

"Elementals are agents that implement Divine intentions and cause these intentions to manifest in high density matter. This is why they are called “the builders. Elementals can be thought of as the intervening variable between the intentions of Source and the realization of these intentions in creation. Without the builders, spiritual intentions would remain in the spiritual dimensions but would not be embodied in the lower dimensions. Elementals are created by Source for this purpose. Their function is a delegated function. Elementals are intelligent energies. We have no reference point for elementals in our high density third dimension, so elementals are invisible to us until we develop the necessary senses to perceive them. In this regard, they are like the wind. We don’t see the wind, but we know it is there by its effect on other things we can see. Elementals ordinarily do not communicate directly with humans but will communicate if they are approached in the right manner. They communicate with emotions and images rather than words. They do not respond well to your thoughts, but do respond to your intentions and your feelings. Elementals will take direction from your soul, angels, or highly developed human magicians who can invoke them and direct their activities. They can be very dangerous to any amateur fooling around with them who does not understand what he or she is doing. You work with elementals occurs in the realm of elemental magic. This requires the use of a magical circle for your protection."

"Everything in the third dimension has it’s template in the higher dimensions. Therefore, anything destroyed in the third dimension still exists as an energy form in the higher dimensions and can be visited. People mourn the destruction of the great library at Alexandria. The library still exists in the fourth dimension. You can visit it and read the books (assuming you understand the ancient languages). The template does not age. However, it exists in much less dense matter (astral matter). The books have no appreciable weight, take up next to no space and are more transparent."

"In the early stages of your spiritual journey you are likely to experience wide swings in your moods, psychic energy and sacred commitment. One day you will be up and the next day you will be down. On alternate days you will be either elated or depressed. Some days you feel close to Source and other days you will not. These core oscillations are natural in the early stages of your spiritual journey. Your soul has to learn by experience how to manage its energies as it makes its way through the good and bad experiences of life."

"The inner path of the mystic or Gnostic requires a mastery of at least the lower levels of consciousness. You will grow from there to the higher levels of consciousness. As you graduate from one level to another, you will realize how little of God’s universe is visible from our third dimension. You must be in at least the fourth dimension to receive direct angelic instruction, although angelic impressions and impulses may reach you while your consciousness is still focused primarily in the third dimension."

Leland Kaiser

These are all excerpts from Leland Kaiser's blog - written by Kaiser himself from - January 17- May 26, 2010.

Endure,

og

[LifeHiscost]

It s like when you are in a war, somebody steps up and says "maybe the enemy is not so bad, they are just like us, maybe we should listen to what they ve gotta say"

Anyway i was thinking about biblical prophecy. Is it true that bible prophecy can be revealed by 1. Finding out what the symbols mean. 2 finding similar stories (for example Jesus said that Elijah had already come when he ment John the Baptist). So there are two principles which are able to take away all the doubt about biblical prophecies?

I pretty much agree with everything you've stated, considering the story of the wolves as being amongst the sheep, and unless we are as fully cognizent as possible of the Lord of Glory as He presents Himself in the Word, we will either be gobbled up or we will join the ranks of the enemy, not withstanding our desire to escape the deception. This, of course, does not negate the fact that Jesus is able to save to the uttermost if we lean on Him as having the last word.

As to your comments above, I've found Jesus often verifies His Way more than once and in more than one way if our trust is in His leadership. As to symbols, the ones I've found greatly enlightening are the ones understood from the sanctuary.

"Your way, O God, is in the sanctuary;Who is so great a God as our God? " Psalm 77:13 NKJV

I would recommend this almost daily devotional, which you can subscribe to without cost to you, as one of the best for all around down to earth, teaching of the principles of the Scripture you will find anywhere. I follow it regularly although I always pass on any unwavering conclusion until I've had opportunity to search any doubts out with personal Bible study, letting the Word clarify Itself.

http://www.itiswritten.com/television#episodes/3263

"Anyone who wants to do the will of God will know whether my teaching is from God or is merely my own." John 7:17 NLT

Blessing!!

[wayfinder]

Jesus had an independant ministry when He was here on earth, I guess that makes it a bad thing. Jesus teaching was intriguing to most, yet He died all but alone. Jesus had 12 disciples, one betrayed Him, one denied Him, only one or two had anything to say, that we have any record of, after He went back to His Father. The messages of the true prophets of God in Israel were were rejected by most. It has been proven throughout history, that history tends to repeat itself. Consider that there are around 14,000,000 Seventh-day Adventists in the world today and that in the first sealing, there are 144,000 ready to be sealed, that is around 0.01 percent! The truth defines the righteous.

Matthew 7:13 NAS

"Enter through the narrow gate ; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Matthew 12:30 NAS

"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

[mrsducky]

What the problem is with New Age "biblical" concepts is that they sound very sweet and therefore are an entrance to all kinds of New Age lies like Christ Conciousness. What i recall from my time as a New Ager was that it sounded sooo good for me that it became addictive and i didn t want to hear anything about the hard plain biblical truth anymore. So what this guy is doing is, he is opening doors to satanic lies. Gnosticism is just a form of Christianity invented by satan to counterfeit the true gospel.

This guy has a lot of earthly credentials etc. so now he is boasting, thinking he is able to invent a new exciting comfortable truth. To argue with other people about their beliefs is of course recommendable, but this guy seems to be open minded in the sense that he has already accepted gnosticism and now he wants to tie his beliefs with the belief systems of other religions. This cannot be tolerated since this church is to be a banner of truth for all the world; pure and united in truth. It s like when you are in a war, somebody steps up and says "maybe the enemy is not so bad, they are just like us, maybe we should listen to what they've gotta say"

The kind of thinking to which you refer is what makes me very nervous. (Just about the time I get one deception figured out there are a whole lot more that I'm not sure I see for what they are.) In my current church we have a practicing lesbian couple serving as deaconesses and everyone seems to be OK with that. I have less and less trust in my ability to tell truth from error as time goes on.

[olger]

Wow. I don't blame you for feeling nervous. The problem is not so much about the GL couple but about a church that has lost its identity as believers. Israel went through the same tragic apostasy after Solomon's wives negatively influenced the nation. 1 Kings 11 to 2 Kings 23.

courage,

g

[mrsducky]

Wow. I don't blame you for feeling nervous. The problem is not so much about the GL couple but about a church that has lost its identity as believers. Israel went through the same tragic apostasy after Solomon's wives negatively influenced the nation. 1 Kings 11 to 2 Kings 23.

courage,

g

I think you make a valid point about identity. When people join the church they aren't always well grounded in what the Bible teaches and so they bring in their own notions of what it means to be a Christian. There are a lot of worldly customs and practices coming into the church with a fair amount of approval even by leaders. Its not always easy or PC to defend what one believes either. I think that is something I really struggle with. (I used to think that everyone in the church believed just like I do. Surprise!)

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: olger

Wow. I don't blame you for feeling nervous. The problem is not so much about the GL couple but about a church that has lost its identity as believers. Israel went through the same tragic apostasy after Solomon's wives negatively influenced the nation. 1 Kings 11 to 2 Kings 23.

courage,

g

There are a lot of worldly customs and practices coming into the church with a fair amount of approval even by leaders. Its not always easy or PC to defend what one believes either. I think that is something I really struggle with. (I used to think that everyone in the church believed just like I do. Surprise!)

Not sure, myself, how best to handle the situation re: customs of the world entering the church, but it does seem to me that no matter how depraved a person might be, they should be invited as a guest into fellowship with the church but should be withheld from office and membership until such time as they invite Jesus into their lives and agree to eschew anything that would hinder that which would make the body of Christ weaker.

After all, when girls were allowed to enter the boy scouts, it could never again be considered wholly the boy scouts. Neither can the body of Christ remain the body of Christ when there are those who worship at the alter of baal with the full approval of the body.

"Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons. "1 Timothy 4:1 NLT

There is no substitute for knowing the Scripture as Jesus teaches it.

"Lead me in Your truth and teach me,

For You are the God of my salvation;

On You I wait all the day." Psalms 25:5 NKJV

Blessings!!

[TWNolan]

Quote:

John317: These beliefs are being written in books and distributed to church members and taught on the radio, and all with the benifit of the church name.

Quote:

mrsducky: Could you say more about spreading these beliefs with the benefit of the church name? Are you talking about "independent ministries" or groups within the church? Thanks.

I think most of the independent ministries are in fundamental agreement with what the church teaches but some of them are teaching doctrines in direct contradiction not only of SDA doctrines but of basic biblical and Christian teachings.

http://web.mac.com/spiritoftruth/iWeb/STM/The%20Spirit%20of%20the%20Church.html

http://web.mac.com/spiritoftruth/iWeb/STM/About%20Us.html

i took a glance at these website... i didn't see anything wrong with them, but of course, i AM half asleep

[Narcah]

What's wrong with communicating with animals?

[John317]

Quote:

TWNolan:

http://web.mac.com/spiritoftruth/iWeb/STM/The%20Spirit%20of%20the%20Church.html

http://web.mac.com/spiritoftruth/iWeb/STM/About%20Us.html

i took a glance at these website... i didn't see anything wrong with them, but of course, i AM half asleep

Yeah, it's best to be awake. lol

But there's good reason for a website not to immediately identify their peculiar beliefs. You have to read their book and listen to their discussion on the radio for a while.

You'll probably agree with them if you think the Apostle Paul was of Satan; that you can't believe in 2/3 of the New Testament; and that Ellen White was the false prophetess of Rev. 2: 20. Those are just the beginning of the beliefs spread by those websites.

I don't recall seeing you online here, so let me welcome you to the Forum. I hope you keep coming back and posting a lot. Make friends, have fun and may God bless.

[TWNolan]

What's wrong with communicating with animals?

unless God opens the mouth of the animal, everything (Numbers 22:22-33)

[John317]

Quote:

Narcah:What's wrong with communicating with animals?

Actually, I do believe some humans can communicate some things to some animals. I don't think there's any doubt about it. Even the Bible gives some evidence of this. But I'm sure this is not the kind of communication you're talking about. :-)

[John317]

Thanks, olger. It's important to get this information straight, and muchas gracias for doing it.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Talking about animals, there is a duck in my garden with a nest. I know that duck for a couple of years since it comes to visit every year. Usually she is very happy and begging for bread and moves against the windows asking for bread. Now recently crows eated the eggs of her nest. Now she is very depressed and i really feel bad for her. She is not enthousiastic anymore and hides herself in the bushes near the place where her nest used to be. So i asked God to be with the duck somehow. Now today, very strange my father found a duck egg in his car close to the engine. This is amazing because it is nearly totaly isolated from the outside world. So there is no way an egg could have been there without somebody laying that egg there!. Anyway i put the egg in her nest, now i hope i can feed the duck and make her sit on her nest again, but the odds are very low i think that she will sit on that one egg.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Leave the nest alone now, and maybe she'll lay some more there. Birds don't sit on their nests until they've finished laying all the eggs they're going to. That way, the eggs will all hatch at about the same time.

[Woody]

Speaking of nests and birds:

I just found this nest this week. My blind dog nearly ate the mother. She was leaving this bush and my dog jumped up and nearly got her. But this photo is of the three babies in her nest:

[phkrause]

Speaking of nests and birds:

I just found this nest this week. My blind dog nearly ate the mother. She was leaving this bush and my dog jumped up and nearly got her. But this photo is of the three babies in her nest:

Cute little buggers! I find nests all the time and in the strangest of places.

pk

[John317]

That was really thoughtful and kind of you, TS. We know that God cares about the animals. I also beleive they are far closer to having feelings like we do than most people realize. It's depressing to think of how much pain all the animals go through, especially at hands of humans. I'm glad you are one human who tries to help them.