bonnie Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 Indonesian Muslims Protest Plans to Burn Quran Associated Press JAKARTA, Indonesia — Thousands of Indonesian Muslims are rallying outside the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta to denounce a Florida church's plan to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11. The Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla., said it will burn the Islamic holy book on the ninth anniversary of the terror attacks. Local officials have denied a permit for the bonfire on the church's grounds. But the center, which made headlines last year by distributing T-shirts that said "Islam is of the Devil,'' insists it will go ahead with the plan. About 3,000 members of a hard-line Islamic group marched Saturday to the U.S. Embassy in downtown Jakarta, waving banners and posters condemning the plan. The group organized similar rallies in five other cities across Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim nation. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 It's hard to believe that anyone claiming to be a Christian would be so obscene. But I guess the "Dove" "World" "Outreach" center (they may be a center, but they are not doves, they apparently hate the world, and they have no idea what outreach is) is Islam's Westboro Baptist Church. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted September 5, 2010 Members Share Posted September 5, 2010 If Hispanics can walk all over the American flag in Arizona, I guess other people in the United States can burn the Quran if they want to. It's called freedom of expression. Muslims in other countries have burned the Bible...it's only a book. The message is what's important. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 5, 2010 Author Share Posted September 5, 2010 If Hispanics can walk all over the American flag in Arizona, I guess other people in the United States can burn the Quran if they want to. It's called freedom of expression. Muslims in other countries have burned the Bible...it's only a book. The message is what's important. I thought it was interesting that a permit was denied for a bonfire. I know I could get a permit here.What if I decided to burn Catholic bibles,or burn as many of the King James version as I could? Would a permit be denied or just for the Quran. By what right was this permit denied? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 It's a small matter when some muslims burn Christian and Jewish Holy Books, but a crime against humanity for some Christians to destroy the muslim holy book. Why does Islam breed such hostility and intolerance among its members? I suppose the root cause is Love of Self and Hatred of Others, a genetic predisposition found in humans all too often. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 5, 2010 Author Share Posted September 5, 2010 It's a small matter when some muslims burn Christian and Jewish Holy Books, but a crime against humanity for some Christians to destroy the muslim holy book. Why does Islam breed such hostility and intolerance among its members? I suppose the root cause is Love of Self and Hatred of Others, a genetic predisposition found in humans all too often. A more interesting question to me is why followers of Islam and it's beliefs are almost a protected group of people. Not subject to the same laws christians are held to. I don't think they should be harmed or discriminated against in anyway. But why the zealous protection of this particular religious group? More so than christians receive Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 Why does Islam breed such hostility and intolerance among its members? What the...? This is about hostile and intolerant Christians. This is not about some Muslims in some other country who have burned Bibles yet have nothing to do with the American Muslims who you and the DWOC hates so much. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 5, 2010 Author Share Posted September 5, 2010 Originally Posted By: Aliensanctuary Why does Islam breed such hostility and intolerance among its members? What the...? This is about hostile and intolerant Christians. This is not about some Muslims in some other country who have burned Bibles yet have nothing to do with the American Muslims who you and the DWOC hates so much. It was more about the permit being denied. If a bonfire at this time of year is routinely allowed and precautions are taken they should have the permit. That is not hating muslims. It is expecting the same considerations be given to any and all faiths. It is not illegal in this country to burn either the Quran or the bible. The burning of the Quran is pretty stupid to say the least but actions of muslims can be as stupid. If I want a permit for a bonfire I can have one. Doesn't matter what I am burning if it does not belong to someone else or is stolen etc. Maybe if I specified I would be burning Qurans instead of the bible I might be denied as well Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted September 5, 2010 Moderators Share Posted September 5, 2010 Some people will not be satisfied until they bring on a worldwide religious war. Never mind that that would provide the perfect pretext for enforced 'Christianity' - including enforced Sunday worship and suppression of alternatives - in the US. How about we all argue that no-one should be insensitive enough to burn anyone's holy books? Seems to me like the only civilised position to take. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 Some people will not be satisfied until they bring on a worldwide religious war. Never mind that that would provide the perfect pretext for enforced 'Christianity' - including enforced Sunday worship and suppression of alternatives - in the US. How about we all argue that no-one should be insensitive enough to burn anyone's holy books? Seems to me like the only civilised position to take. Here in America people have the right to burn the bible or any religious book. Whether or not it is wrong from a christian standpoint and just plain stupid I would have the right to burn as many Quran's or bibles I could legally get my hands on. Doesn't matter how insensitive. Freedom is not always sensitive,but most americans so far appreciate the freedom of religion and expression.Not always pretty Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted September 6, 2010 Moderators Share Posted September 6, 2010 No-one is arguing for lack of freedom. I'm not talking about government compulsion. I'm talking about human decency, and we're each accountable for our own. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 I believe most immigrate to the US for the freedoms we still have. Muslims should have all the freedoms afforded in this country like anyone else. What they should not expect is to write the rules of what will be tolerated in our freedom of religion and expression. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Here in America people have the right to burn the bible or any religious book. Whether or not it is wrong from a christian standpoint and just plain stupid I would have the right to burn as many Quran's or bibles I could legally get my hands on. Doesn't matter how insensitive. Freedom is not always sensitive,but most americans so far appreciate the freedom of religion and expression.Not always pretty So it's more insensitive for Muslims to build a mosque in a certain place than for people to burn their holy book. Apparently, anyway, since we ask Muslims not to build their mosque, but have no problem with freedom of religion by burning Qur'ans. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 So it's more insensitive for Muslims to build a mosque in a certain place than for people to burn their holy book. Apparently, anyway, since we ask Muslims not to build their mosque, but have no problem with freedom of religion by burning Qur'ans. You really need to learn to read better.Quit imaging words that are not there. I think it is insensitive to build the mosque there.They have a perfect right to do so however and should not be stopped if all is legal. I never said I didn't have a problem with some idiots trying to make a statement by burning the Quran. If a permit was denied because of burning the Quran that is wrong. Just as wrong if the KKK or any believing in witch craft were denied the right to burn what we consider our "Holy Book" Islam does not mean special privilege or shouldn't Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 It's hard to believe that anyone claiming to be a Christian would be so obscene. But I guess the "Dove" "World" "Outreach" center (they may be a center, but they are not doves, they apparently hate the world, and they have no idea what outreach is) is Islam's Westboro Baptist Church. SM, As you may know, the U.S. govt. has a well-funded propaganda campaign to demonize Islam. This includes media manipulation, provocateurs during protests and regime change in Iran. Bush asked Congress for $400 million, but may have received more - possibly a blank cheque. This buys a lot of newspaper ink, but a small investment to continue the 'war on terror.' And no change with Obama's team. So we should expect Koran burnings and reactionary protests. Very likely all done with the ok or even prompting of the State Dept. It's good for business, the war business. Very important for the U.S. govt. to foment fear and distrust of the current enemy. Some decades back it was Russia and Communism. Then as the Iron Curtain fell, the first Iraq invasion was launched. Sept. 11, 2001 sealed the hatred of Muslims with a botched frame-up - there were no Muslim hijackers - but it spurred further invasions and military spending. $$$. As we can see, this fulfills prophecy. When a country which has received God's unique blessing and protection uses it's great strength to manipulate and overpower it's weaker neighbours, ruin will surely come. Ingratitude is the crime. We are fat while they are starving. Instead of food we send depleted uranium and white phosphorus. Expect the American public to be jerked around by the mainstream media. Newsrooms have been paid for this work with Congress-approved dollars - and many churches are similarly endowed. (Since Rome pulls all the strings, watch for the Vatican slant on Iran too) The growing frenzy against Islam will soon target those who protest religious and racist persecution, as well as other dissidents, for being unpatriotic, un-American. ('If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists' - G.W Bush) Persecution will be led by the religious right. Victims will include the faithful remnant, seen as bringing calamity to the nation. A similar repeat of Nazi Germany's pogroms. But let not your heart be troubled, for these are the signs of the times. Jesus will soon return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Quote: What the...? This is about hostile and intolerant Christians. This is not about some Muslims in some other country who have burned Bibles yet have nothing to do with the American Muslims who you and the DWOC hates so much. Quote: Indonesian Muslims Protest Plans to Burn Quran I believe this discussion began with the topic of thousands of Indonesian Muslims protesting the planned burning of their holy book by one particular church in Florida. I don't believe I referenced American Muslims in particular, just Islam in general, due to the news reports I have seen. Were there thousands of Christians protesting the destruction of Bibles intercepted in Iran or other anti-Christian countries? Were angry Christians shouting in the streets, "Death to Iran?" Have Christians threatened, or killed, European cartoonists for depictions of Jesus? Are Christians raping, torturing, disfiguring, or killing Muslims because they refuse to become Christians or have converted to Islam? Is there a double standard for Muslim and non-Muslim? The Muslims can destroy Bibles and no one accuses them of intolerance or holds huge public demonstrations against it. Yet, if one particular church in Florida plans to observe the anniversary of 911 by burning a Quran, not a good choice, really, thousands of reactionary Muslims half way around the world are incited into demonstrations? You are mistaken, Sivart, if you think that I "hate" American Muslims. I have indeed read parts of the Quran, mainly a rambling collection of one man's thoughts, it seems. I believe all religions are man-made, and that some of them can, and are being used by the Dark Side, as an excuse to rape, torture, persecute, murder, and otherwise harm those who refuse to join. Yet, even the worst of those who commit atrocities against humanity will have a chance, in the Last Days, to repent and become servants of the Lord. Those who do will be saved, but those who reject the LORD'S call to serve him will continue to rape, torture, persecute, and murder his servants until it's all over. We can, and must, forgive the misguided followers of all religions who advocate, and commit, harmful acts against their fellow humans. We must pray that they, along with ourselves, will pass the test we must all face in the Last Days. Those who choose to become servants of the LORD, and become members of his Kingdom, will no longer have to endure mistreatment by others, no matter what the excuse. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 SM, As you may know, the U.S. govt. has a well-funded propaganda campaign to demonize Islam. This includes media manipulation, provocateurs during protests and regime change in Iran. Bush asked Congress for $400 million, but may have received more - possibly a blank cheque. This buys a lot of newspaper ink, but a small investment to continue the 'war on terror.' And no change with Obama's team. Um, except Obama wants to improve our relations with Muslims... :\ But yeah. Just look at how hard the religious right fights against postmodernism, which is probably our best hope for peace between religions right now. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 I one doesn't like a book they buy ... I suppose they should be able to do what they want of it. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Were there thousands of Christians protesting the destruction of Bibles intercepted in Iran or other anti-Christian countries? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 I one doesn't like a book they buy ... I suppose they should be able to do what they want of it. That's true. But if I wrote a book I wouldn't care much for someone buying a stack of them and burning them in front of my face. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Look, I don't think Muslims should have more rights than anyone else. But I can't stand how people talk about them like some kind of pest and not people. And that's practically all I see in every discussion on Muslims on this forum. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 Look, I don't think Muslims should have more rights than anyone else. But I can't stand how people talk about them like some kind of pest and not people. And that's practically all I see in every discussion on Muslims on this forum. Muslims frequently have more rights than US citizens.If that permit was denied based on the burning of the Quran that is preferential treatment Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Um, except Obama wants to improve our relations with Muslims... :\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted September 6, 2010 Members Share Posted September 6, 2010 Quote: I have indeed read parts of the Quran, mainly a rambling collection of one man's thoughts, it seems. I believe all religions are man-made, and that some of them can, and are being used by the Dark Side, as an excuse to rape, torture, persecute, murder, and otherwise harm those who refuse to join. Like... Christianity! Who'd a thunk we'd have a Muslim apologist on an Adventist forum? Frankly, I'm tired of the Crusades being brought up time after time as an excuse for the crimes committed by Muslim extremists. There HAVE been several years since the crusades. Christianity has evolved. Has Islam evolved? Or is it caught in a time warp? **back to topic** I think people in the USA have a right to burn anything that belongs to them. I also think that people must suffer the consequences for their actions. I think that the Muslims (and some other ethnic groups) have more freedom and pandering here in the USA than Caucasians. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 Originally Posted By: SivartM Um, except Obama wants to improve our relations with Muslims... :\ His words may give that impression, but his actions speak louder. Smoke and mirrors. He's a puppet SM. A prisoner.One wrong policy move and it's Dealey Plaza all over again. Originally Posted By: SivartM But yeah. Just look at how hard the religious right fights against postmodernism, which is probably our best hope for peace between religions right now. Christ is always the answer for man's problems Sivart. Neither the religious right nor postmodernism have Christ. Are we to have peace and contentment between religions? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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