2 Tenets of Atheism

[doug yowell]

He was writing the PHILOSOPHY of Jesus. Read my references!!! It's a pain to continually correct your lack of research.

Taking a couple of ibuprofen before you start. Works every time.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

He was writing the PHILOSOPHY of Jesus. Read my references!!! It's a pain to continually correct your lack of research.

Taking a couple of ibuprofen before you start. Works every time.

If you can't have an adult conversation then take your toys and go home.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

Mark, it is simply a waste of time reasoning with you because you debate from authority not reason.

You are certainly free to believe what ever you want, but you can count me out at this point.

That is not correct Cardw.

I debate from reason that derives itself from authority.

That is debating from authority.

[Twilight]

That is debating from authority.

And how is your approach different?

Seems to me, you debate from our "own" authority, that you have manufactured through your life experience.

Is that incorrect?

[phkrause]

Taking a couple of ibuprofen before you start. Works every time.

This is exactly what cardw has been saying about Christians Doug. With replies like these it shows how intolarant some Christians are of others views. My wife and I were just talking about this yesterday after dropping my Mom off at her home after a day at Daytona Beach where we are staying for the week. Now I'm not going to mention all of her comments, but if we were not strong in our believe's and were not Christians and she was trying to show us what a Christian is, we would never want to be one let alone an adventist Christian. Now having said that, I know that there are many that claim to be one, but its by our actions that truly show who we are. Its how we walk our talk. They need to be in harmony. Christ said people will know who we are by how we love one another. I don't agree with cardw on his beliefs either, but I can at least listen to what he say's without making some of the remarks that I've read from a few here. I know those same few jump all over CoAspen for his defending remarks by cardw, but each one of us has the right to our opinions without others attacking the person. Lets just state what we believe and leave it at that. He knows what Christians are about,from what I've gather he was raised an Adventist. Personally I'm sorry he has had a bad experience but I know many others also, some are still in the church others like cardw are not. Lets be tolerate of all beliefs, not just ours.

OK I'll get of my

[Tom Wetmore]

[Twilight]

Lets be tolerate of all beliefs, not just ours.

OK I'll get of my

It is not about a lack of tolerance.

It is about giving error "protective status".

That is the issue.

[skyblue888]

Mark, is it not about freedom of speech? Sorry to say, I see more tolerance coming from cardw than from us who do not agree with his views. In some of our replies to him, one could get the feeling or the impression that we are very annoyed by him at the suggestion that atheists are more reasonable and wiser than Christians. It is very humbling for us Adventists to hear this for we are supposed to be the head and not the tail. If we had kept pace with the light we would not be in the position we are today. We have been and still are the laughing stock of many in the world. If we were truly Christ's true representatives, the world would be "captivated by the glory of an abiding Christ." But this is far from being the reality and we know it, or we ignore it and act as though we had arrived. Look at the Jews, they had been called to be the ground and pillar of the truth but instead they became the representatives of Satan. They did exactly what Satan would have them do and caused the world to look upon God as a tyran. Like the Jews, were we not, Adventists, called to be the ground and pillar of the truth and are we not in danger of repeating their history to the very letter?

sky

[Twilight]

Mark, is it not about freedom of speech? Sorry to say, I see more tolerance coming from cardw than from us who do not agree with his views. In some of our replies to him, one could get the feeling or the impression that we are very annoyed by him at the suggestion that atheists are more reasonable and wiser than Christians. It is very humbling for us Adventists to hear this for we are supposed to be the head and not the tail. If we had kept pace with the light we would not be in the position we are in today. We have been and still are the laughing stock of many in the world. If we were truly Christ's true representatives, the world would be "captivated by the glory of an abiding Christ." But this is far from being the reality and we know it, or we ignore it and act as though we had arrived. Look at the Jews, they had been called to be the ground and pillar of the truth but instead they became the representatives of Satan. They did exactly what Satan would have them do and caused the world to look upon God as a tyran. Like the Jews, were we not, Adventists, called to be the ground and pillar of the truth and are we not repeating their history to the very letter?

sky

There is nothing wrong with freedom of speech Sky.

As long as one viewpoint from error is not "protected" because of some misguided ideology about how one should "evangelise" someone in error.

Christians should point out error, not protect it and attack those pointing it out and charge them with being "un-Christian" for doing so.

[skyblue888]

How is error being "protected"?

[Twilight]

Keep reading and watching Sky.

[doug yowell]

It's a pain to continually correct your lack of research.

And this is your idea of an adult conversation,Rich? Would you rather I respond to your condescending quips in like manner? You flatly stated that Jefferson was atheistic towards the god of the Bible and I responded to that error. I accept the fact that Jefferson didn't believe that Jesus was Divine but he did believe that there was a Supreme Being that had revealed Himself in the Bible,a concept you don't accept.My point was (and you agreed)that Jefferson does not support your form of atheism.You keep mixing your subjects.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: cardw

It's a pain to continually correct your lack of research.

And this is your idea of an adult conversation,Rich? Would you rather I respond to your condescending quips in like manner?

This is the virtuos behaviour that keeps getting promoted I sense Doug...

This is that "respect" that people keep holding up as something iconic, something to defend... :-)

[Twilight]

Here is a sample of this "virtuous" behaviour that seems beyond reproach Doug:

Quote:

This is another example of lazy thinking. You would rather deal in sound bytes and innuendo than factual research. This type of thinking permeates Christianity today and you are simply continuing to promote it.

avoid your lazy argument and introduce another one.

we find the stark reality of Christian foolishness.

This is blatant dishonesty. I have to answer this clearly irrational concept over and over.

What you are doing is slander and presenting false information. Knock it off!!!!

It is a fact that atheists are higher educated and less violent. And it appears that you refuse to be educated because you continue to present these false arguments over and over based on false definitions.

You continued insistence that atheism is an ideology is either willful ignorance or a lack of understanding.

Now either you accept that fact or you can remain in ignorance.

This is a subtle dishonesty you do.

Either you are lacking intelligence or you are willfully bearing false witness.

If you want to reject all other sources of information other than how you interpret the Bible you are certainly welcome. If that is the case then it makes no sense to continue having a conversation with you.

You make these claims without evidence. I have no reason to believe that you know what you are talking about.

And since you aren't willing to look at any other evidence, it is pointless to have a conversation with you.

You are basically claiming infallibility. And that is dangerous and quite frankly arrogant.

You continue to get more and more absurd.

Read my references!!! It's a pain to continually correct your lack of research.

Now we can see here, that the claim of virtue is sadly lacking.

Noting of course that the poster has never made this claim, but that those that want to lift that type of posting up as something positive insist on issuing "hero status" on this type of approach.

All these quotes came from just this one single thread.

Now, if you or I had been responsible for these words, I should imagine loud calls for a holiday would have been made by now...

This double standard, this blindness to poor posting behaviour, based I think, on the incorrect assumption that turning a blind eye to it will win "one" over, is absolutely incredible.

Notice Doug, you say one thing "out of line" and you are taken out and stoned for your sins...

Interesting isn't it?

Mark

[Twilight]

And I am challenging those that want to hold the poster up as an icon of virtue, not the poster himself, who has never made that claim as far as I am aware.

[Twilight]

Gathers up some stones for the stoning party...

[doug yowell]

This is exactly what cardw has been saying about Christians Doug. With replies like these it shows how intolarant some Christians are of others views. My wife and I were just talking about this yesterday after dropping my Mom off at her home after a day at Daytona Beach where we are staying for the week. Now I'm not going to mention all of her comments, but if we were not strong in our believe's and were not Christians and she was trying to show us what a Christian is, we would never want to be one let alone an adventist Christian. Now having said that, I know that there are many that claim to be one, but its by our actions that truly show who we are. Its how we walk our talk. They need to be in harmony. Christ said people will know who we are by how we love one another. I don't agree with cardw on his beliefs either, but I can at least listen to what he say's without making some of the remarks that I've read from a few here. I know those same few jump all over CoAspen for his defending remarks by cardw, but each one of us has the right to our opinions without others attacking the person. Lets just state what we believe and leave it at that. He knows what Christians are about,from what I've gather he was raised an Adventist. Personally I'm sorry he has had a bad experience but I know many others also, some are still in the church others like cardw are not. Lets be tolerate of all beliefs, not just ours.

OK I'll get of my

Thanks for the concern,pk, but you're wrong here.Rich consistently prefaces his posts with condescending comments in which he openly expresses his belief that those he is jousting with are mindless,lazy thinkers,and you say nothing.He comments how it pains him to have to keep correcting (i.e.tolerating)my lack of research (is this a weary father dealing with his dense 4 year old?)and then cries foul when I respond to his remarks.If Rich can't deal with those of us who aren't quite as thoughtful or quick as he is at least he can be a respectful and patient teacher.I respect his right to believe and espouse his beliefs,I am not required to accept them myself. I do not respect his right to demean the inadequacies of others in the name of tolerance.

[doug yowell]

Gathers up some stones for the stoning party...

I love that shark!! Haven't seen it for awhile.

[Twilight]

I do not respect his right to demean the inadequacies of others in the name of tolerance.

Well said.

[doug yowell]

Mark, is it not about freedom of speech? Sorry to say, I see more tolerance coming from cardw than from us who do not agree with his views. In some of our replies to him, one could get the feeling or the impression that we are very annoyed by him at the suggestion that atheists are more reasonable and wiser than Christians.

What freedom of speech,sky? Has anyone told Rich he couldn't express his views of the stupidity of Christianity? That atheism is wiser and more reasonable than Christianity? If we disagree are we supposed to (like you seem to be doing)hang our heads in shame and tearfully repent? If we disagree with the premise what recourse do you allow us? If his facts are erronious does tolerance demand that we turn the other cheek?Has anyone called for his expulsion from the forum? Has anyone called his atheism lazy thinking or called him names?

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

I do not respect his right to demean the inadequacies of others in the name of tolerance.

Well said.

At the risk of more vehement criticism, you too!

[doug yowell]

If we had kept pace with the light we would not be in the position we are today. We have been and still are the laughing stock of many in the world. If we were truly Christ's true representatives, the world would be "captivated by the glory of an abiding Christ."

Have you noticed,sky, the response of the world to Christ's true representatives throughout history? Did you notice the response of both the Romans and the Jews to the very presence of God Himself? Are you thinking that love,by itself,is an adaquate substitute for truth? Not all of Christianity's trouble is a result of unfaithfulness.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

It's a pain to continually correct your lack of research.

And this is your idea of an adult conversation,Rich? Would you rather I respond to your condescending quips in like manner? You flatly stated that Jefferson was atheistic towards the god of the Bible and I responded to that error. I accept the fact that Jefferson didn't believe that Jesus was Divine but he did believe that there was a Supreme Being that had revealed Himself in the Bible,a concept you don't accept.My point was (and you agreed)that Jefferson does not support your form of atheism.You keep mixing your subjects.

[Twilight]

Your failure to actually do any research is laziness. Your continual complaints that I keep pointing this out is dishonest.

So Doug is lazy and dishonest?

[phkrause]

Thanks for the concern,pk, but you're wrong here.Rich consistently prefaces his posts with condescending comments in which he openly expresses his belief that those he is jousting with are mindless,lazy thinkers,and you say nothing.He comments how it pains him to have to keep correcting (i.e.tolerating)my lack of research (is this a weary father dealing with his dense 4 year old?)and then cries foul when I respond to his remarks.If Rich can't deal with those of us who aren't quite as thoughtful or quick as he is at least he can be a respectful and patient teacher.I respect his right to believe and espouse his beliefs,I am not required to accept them myself. I do not respect his right to demean the inadequacies of others in the name of tolerance.

I can agree with most of what you posted here. But as so-called "Christians" are we not above doing likewise than?