Stan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 It remains the choice of those who elect the leaders. Blaming it on the tithe issue is silly. To leach off the good name of the Adventist Church is the issue. No one is stopping them from having their own name. Would you really expect someone to start saying they are a Seventh-day Adventist pastor, and not be able to back that up from the Seventh-day Adventist Church? How do you spell fraud? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 is there such a thing as Christian Fraud? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Few things are scarier to me than those that speak out against the organized Seventh-day Adventist church and use the Spirit of Prophecy to support their op-position. No thanks. I'll take my peace of mind and serenity and you can have your opposition. I would say good luck but my heart just wouldn't be in it. Shane, no offense but you need to be educated as many adventists do as to what the SoP says about the "organized work" of the SDA church. Prayerfully and carefully read Testimonies to Ministers pp.360-366 for a start and then 481. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted December 21, 2011 Administrators Share Posted December 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: Stanta It is wrong to impersonate a company and it is just as wrong to impersonate a Church. A church that has become a financial corporation, a trademark? No. The law of trademarks/servicemarks covers both commercial and non-commercial interests. That is a common fact of most laws. Same laws. Different applications. A trademark is a type of intellectual property, like a copyright. As with any property, there are rights associated with them which a protected by law. If the Church publishes a book, nobody seems troubled that it should protect its copyright. Nobody seems troubled that it should take steps within the law to protect its buildings and other assets from thieves, vandals, etc. The rights to use and control the use of the trademarks of the Church deserve the same respect and protection. Why does anyone think it's OK to take the name of the Church and use it for their own purposes? Would you think it OK to go up to any church, let yourself in and help yourself to whatever you find in it, to use it for your own meetings, etc.? Repaint it if you don't like the color? Rearrange the furniture and cut down the shade trees around it? What objection would you have if someone from that congregation came and saw what you were doing and called the authorities to have you arrested and prosecuted for trespass, vandalism, theft, etc. and made you pay for the damage you caused? Taking and using the Church's trademarks without permission just as certainly causes damage to the Church. As faithful stewards of what God has entrusted us with, we have a responsibility to protect all that belongs to the Church, including its intellectual property. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: Shane Few things are scarier to me than those that speak out against the organized Seventh-day Adventist church and use the Spirit of Prophecy to support their op-position. No thanks. I'll take my peace of mind and serenity and you can have your opposition. I would say good luck but my heart just wouldn't be in it. HM. Can't you see what you are saying here? You are basically just said that organized Adventist Church can do no wrong and is beyond reproof... and to use it's own standards to test it and to speak out against the possible fallacies is disturbing. I find your statement much more disturbing, because your arguments does not rest with reason... but rather with loyalty. I.e. "Pope is infallible" type of loyalty. My thoughts as well. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Woody, thanks for your continued interest in this thread. It is a great blessing that my personal attorney has taken the case pro bono (i.e., free). He is a Roman Catholic who believes in "religious liberty" for all. He seems to think more like an older Seventh-day Adventist (prior to the era of corporate business policy and image protections). After we lost the appeals case in Cincinnati, a high-tier law firm in Washington DC contacted us with a proposition. They saw our case having potential for one of the landmark cases in United States history. Because of the "high-profile" nature of the case, they offered to take the case pro bono also. It is very true that "lawyers are not cheap" unless God hires them. May God be praised! [/quote Now that is highly interesting. An eye-opener to be sure. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 is there such a thing as Christian Fraud? "Orgnanizations, institutions, unless kept by the power of God, will work under Satan's dictation to bring men under the control of men; and fraud and guile will bear the semblance of zeal for truth and for the advancement of the kingdom of God. Whatever in our practice is not as open as day belongs to the methods of the prince of evil. His methods are practiced even among Seventh-day Adventists who claim to have advanced truth." T.M.366. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: Shane to the inquisition. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: Shane Those that I know who believe they have a divine mandate to smoke marijuana are not Native Americans but claim to be Christians. They are not alone in claiming a divine mandate for things that the Bible does not mention. Shane, The RFRA is premised on the concept of "liberty and justice for all." I think that is an American ideal resulting in separation of church and state (among other things). "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." On the contrary, a Papal system always seeks "control." "Force is the last resort of all false religion." (EGW) When the United States government applies secular law to "religious observances and missionary services (viz., trademark law)," it opens the door for "an establishment of religion" by "neutral principles of law." Any religious corporation that invokes said law will ultimately "speak like a dragon." The effect is persecution via an unholy union of church and state. Perhaps this will help. Mrs. White, speaking of the General Conference leaders, said this: "They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms. They would rule or ruin." Testimonies to Ministers, 360. "They are following in the track of Romanism." T.M.362 bottom of page and top of page 363. "Rule, rule, has been their course of action." 363. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Originally Posted By: Shane The General Conference does well in trying to prevent off-shoots from stealing our name. I see God working in this. We have seen mention here of Baptists, Methodists and Catholics not having a trademark on their names. I don't know if that is true or not but if so, it shows the genius of those in our organization to have enough foresight to trademark our name. Shane, Since you seem ignorant respecting the source of "the genius of those in [your] organization [who] have enough foresight to trademark [the] name," I will share some of the history with you. The General Conference leaders were concerned about SDA Kinship International gay/lesbian support group gaining power in the 1970s. There was *fear* that the deviant ones would start forming other homosexual groups, calling them by the controverted name and staining the SDA reputation. Said leaders consulted "the God of Ekron" (see 8T 69 and AA 290 in tandem) which amounted to "spiritualism." The Roman Catholic trademark attorney (whom they consulted) advised the leading men to trademark the name, declaring that such action would be sufficient to protect the name from the homosexuals. You may be aware that the SDA Kinship International, a group of "homosexual Adventists" (an oxymoron), won the court battle in 1991, the same year the CSDA Church was formed. Had "the genius" of your leaders been inspired of God (capital "G"), they would have been vindicated in San Francisco and not defeated. The only trademark infringement case RE the name "Seventh-day Adventist" won by the GC in a court hearing was the Perez lawsuit. The historic SDAs declare a victory after mediation allowed them a byline using the name SDA under the name of their churches. Though CSDA had demanded a jury trial, and the Court had agreed, another judge was selected for the case. The new District Court Judge decided to render a verdict without the jury. A strong basis for his decision was founded on the Perez court's opinion. The CSDA lost on appeal because of an unusual interpretation of the RFRA. That is exactly why there is currently a petition for writ of certiorari pending before the US Supreme Court. As I stated in a previous post, the GC (those with "the genius" you refer to) will argue against allowing this matter to be heard before the high court because they *fear* losing all their power to wield the "sword of Caesar" in protection of the name. "[...] all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." (Matt. 26:52) Well put. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I understand why the courts sided with sdakinship.... and they should have. How did you make out with the courts Pastor Chick? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 "When troubles arise in the church we should not go for help to lawyers not of our faith. God does not desire us to open church difficulties before those who do not fear Him. He would not have us depend for help on those who do not obey His requirements. Those who trust in such counselors show that they have not faith in God. By their lack of faith the Lord is greatly dishonored, and their course works great injury to themselves. In appealing to unbelievers to settle difficulties in the church they are biting and devouring one another, to be "consumed one of another" (Gal. 5:15). These men cast aside the counsel God has given, and do the very things He has bidden them not to do. They show that they have chosen the world as their judge, and in heaven their names are registered as one with unbelievers. Christ is crucified afresh, and put to open shame. Let these men know that God does not hear their prayers. They insult His holy name, and He will leave them to the buffetings of Satan until they shall see their folly and seek the Lord by confession of their sin. Matters connected with the church are to be kept within its own borders. If a Christian is abused, he is to take it patiently; if defrauded, he is not to appeal to courts of justice. Rather let him suffer loss and wrong." [3SM 299] That's very clear, is it not? sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 The trouble did not arise in the Church, the trouble arose when a non member set out to impersonate the Church. You are ok with fraud and misrepresentation? Is there are reason why a person would not create a new one rather than leech off of an existing one? Would you feel good about a someone doing a 1888 Study Committee, collect funds, and put out information that did not represent those who worked hard to be the real 1888 Study Committee? They could even make statements renouncing previous actions? So why not create his own? Who would object to that? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Is Creation SDA church and SDA church the same name? Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor_Chick Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I wonder when is it ok to take on an identity that one is not... Teresa, Please expand on this wonderment a bit. I am not sure what you are reaching for. Thanks in advance. Quote Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor_Chick Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 I understand why the courts sided with sdakinship.... and they should have. How did you make out with the courts Pastor Chick? Stan, The only Court that I care to please is the Bar of Heaven. I do always those things that please my Father. Now, while you continue to jab and accuse, which is not really necessary, I have a proposal for you. Why not poll your membership using the following criteria? Q: Do you believe "Seventh-day Adventism" is 1. A company, or 2. A religion? If you do not prejudice the poll with your own words, we might find an interesting result. Quote Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor_Chick Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Is Creation SDA church and SDA church the same name? Quote Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arnie Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Pastor Chick I applaud your conviction in Christ. It's inconscionable to me that this SDA GC would go so far to protect it's name. This has been totally blown out of porportion. I've been involved in creating corporations and they are employed to protect the rights of businesses in America. I'm truly sorry this has happened to you and to our Church. Please know my prayers are with you. May God Bless, Arnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor_Chick Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Pastor Chick I applaud your conviction in Christ. It's inconscionable to me that this SDA GC would go so far to protect it's name. This has been totally blown out of porportion. I've been involved in creating corporations and they are employed to protect the rights of businesses in America. I'm truly sorry this has happened to you and to our Church. Please know my prayers are with you. May God Bless, Arnie Arnie, Thank you for your kind words once again. I encourage you to study our doctrine on the trademark (mark of the beast) issue in great detail. There is more to this than initially meets the mind. In the meantime, if you or any of the viewers on CA wish to meet me in person and discuss matters further, I shall be available in the US during April. Wishing you God's best, Quote Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor_Chick Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 is there such a thing as Christian Fraud? Quote Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor_Chick Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Breaking News: I was interviewed today by ABC News and all who are interested in the evening segment may view the following video: Quote Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Thanks for posting this video. Wow - our church has had plenty of prophets - I really don't feel that we need another. But Prophet Pastor Chick -- I do wish you the best in prison. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Fox Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Thanks for posting this video.Wow - our church has had plenty of prophets - I really don't feel that we need another. But Prophet Pastor Chick -- I do wish you the best in prison. "When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few—this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason." [5T 136] Quote www.Adventistry.to/Answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Yet it is ok to impersonate the Adventist church? Leeching off of the good name? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Appears to be fraud in my book Stan. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.