jen516 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 CHRISLAM SPREADS THROUGHOUT AMERICA... http://thelastcrusade.org/2010/11/04/chrislam-spreads-throughout-america/ In December I heard a sermon by Dwight Nelson and he said "Don't let anyone ever tell you that Allah is associated with Lucifer." He also said that Allah is the same God that we worship. Seeing this article reminded me of that sermon. I'm just wondering how people feel about this? Quote *~Jenniƒer~* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 No, I've never heard of Chrislam... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SivartM Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I haven't heard of it because it's not real. But I think that it's a good thing that people are realizing that Christians and Muslims worship the same deity, and can therefore worship together. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted February 8, 2011 Administrators Share Posted February 8, 2011 It would be interesting to see if a Muslim believes the same. I would love to let them know that not all Christians worship Mary or have graven images in their churches that members pray to, AND that there are Christians that make a difference between clean foods and unclean. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 8, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 8, 2011 http://whoischrislam.com/ Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 CHRISLAM SPREADS THROUGHOUT AMERICA... http://thelastcrusade.org/2010/11/04/chrislam-spreads-throughout-america/ In December I heard a sermon by Dwight Nelson and he said "Don't let anyone ever tell you that Allah is associated with Lucifer." He also said that Allah is the same God that we worship. Seeing this article reminded me of that sermon. I'm just wondering how people feel about this? I agree with Dwight. If you translate God into arabic, and other language is sounds like Allah. The word Allah is translated where we use God in the isalmic languages. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 9, 2011 Members Share Posted February 9, 2011 CHRISLAM SPREADS THROUGHOUT AMERICA... http://thelastcrusade.org/2010/11/04/chrislam-spreads-throughout-america/ In December I heard a sermon by Dwight Nelson and he said "Don't let anyone ever tell you that Allah is associated with Lucifer." He also said that Allah is the same God that we worship. Seeing this article reminded me of that sermon. I'm just wondering how people feel about this? Excellent post. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I am new to this site and unless I don't know how to use it yet, I don't see any effective response to the "Chrislam" article presented above. So, here are my starting points: 1) The name Allah is a proper name that is used both in a generic manner to mean god, and also is the actual name of the Muslim god. Both usages also were use to applied to the English word for God as well. In older English, the word God was the proper name of a pagan Germanic god. So, when the Scriptures were translated into English, the translators used the name of a Pagan god in place of the Hebrew word “Eloyhim”, which is plural by the way, and not within the scope of this discussion. Over the years, the English use of the word “God” just came to mean a descriptive term for the One True God. However, never has the Hebrew word “Eloyhim”, pronounced like “Aleloheim”, sounded like Allah. There are locations however in the Scriptures, like the Book of Daniel, where the word “Eloah” is used. No one knows the derivation of this word for sure as it has been lost in antiquity. “Eloah”, pronounced “Aleloah”, if the vowel “e” is not used can sound a little like Allah. However, “Eloah” was apparently a word used only in poetic form and found only in latter Hebrew. So, it is a word that is rarely, if ever used, in the original Old Testament Scriptures. So, if this word “Eloah” is not a Scribe error, in the few places where it is used, it still does not sound like Allah, unless ones forces the sound by removing the “e”, and even then it is not the word that means “Allah” to the Muslims. The Muslims are very particular in their pronunciation, the sound, of the word “Allah”. 2) The NAME of the God of the Christians is not Allah, most know it as the Father, Jesus Christ, or the LORD, but never is it Allah in Hebrew. In fact, the name of the god Allah is mentioned, with its proper Muslim pronunciation in the Old Testament, but is never translated into English … except as Baal It is a completely different word from “Eloah” and does refer directly to the god Allah that the Muslims worship. The mention of this Baal-Allah can even be found in the Book of Genesis in Hebrew. This is also, another very important study, that is not within the scope of this discussion. 3) Just because Allah "may" sound a little like the rarely used Hebrew poetic word “Eloah” does not constitute proof they refer to the same God. If that type of reasoning were true, then one could say the name Jesus is equal to the name of the god Zeus just because they sound so similar in both the Greek and Old English pronunciations. The words Allah and Eloah are two different words from two different languages with two totally different meanings. Now, the Muslims would like us to believe they are the same, because that legitimizes their claim that we all serve the One True God. However, go to any country that has been taken over by the Muslims and just try to call the One True God by the name Jesus Christ. Quickly, you will find that the Muslims know the difference and you will be required not only to call Him Allah, but to worship Allah. To justify the worship of Allah by Christians and Jews by using this logic is to justify the worse form of Idolatry; the breaking of the First Commandment. 4) Because, the god Allah requires Muslims to worship him on Friday and because the God of the Christians and Jews requires worship of Him on Saturday it is apparent they are two different gods. 5) Because, the Muslims reject the Salvation of God offered through Yeshua, Jesus Christ, the god they worship, Allah, is a different god than the one the Christians worship. The Christian God states there is no Salvation through any other Name other than Yeshua. 6) Finally, just because, Jesus is mentioned in the Koran, does not mean the Muslims accept Him as their Saviour. On the contrary, Muhammad or his descendent “the Madi” is their saviour. 7) The god Allah is a War god. This is shown by the fact that in almost every place in the world where Allah is worshipped.....there is war between the Muslims and anybody else that is not Muslim. Whereas the God that the Christians and Jews serve is a God of Mercy, Love and Salvation. Folks, hold fast to the Truth, for we are being tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2011 The Allah-- or god-- of the Qur'an is not the same God who inspired the Bible. The Qur'an and the Bible contradict each other in regard to Christ and other subjects. It says that the Jews did not kill Christ on the cross but that it only appeared to them as if they killed Christ. This contradicts the Bible which says that the Jews and other humans killed Christ. See Acts 2: 23; 3: 14, 15; Rev. 1: 7. The Qur'an also teaches that Christ was only a messenger of Allah and denies that Christ existed in heaven before being born on this earth. It says, too, that the Sabbath was made for the Jews and there's no indication at all that non-Jews or Muslims should keep the seventh-day Sabbath. Instead, Allah calls for special prayers on Friday. It plainly denies the existence of the Triune God, which the Bible supports, and says that Allah does not have a son. These are strange things indeed for the God of the Bible to inspire in His word if He also inspired Mohammad to write the Qur'an. The Bible says that God cannot lie. Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. It is interesting to observe also that when Mohammad first had contact with the spirit in the cave, he thought it was an evil spirit. But his wife and friends said it was a good spirit and convinced him to go back to the cave and make contact again with the spirit. So he returned and that is when he changed his mind. I have no doubt that Mohammad's first impression was correct. If anyone wants references to the teachings of Qur'an, I'll be glad to give them. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted February 12, 2011 Members Share Posted February 12, 2011 I have a question: If we believe that the gospel must be preached to all the world for a witness before the return of Christ, what sort of gospel can we preach to those we regard as enemies: "Christ loves you but I don't. I'm afraid of you?" If this is likely, then we treat our enemies as Jonah did Nineveh - we run away and avoid giving them the gospel? Maybe we really don't have enemies but rather alienated brothers and sisters in Christ for whom we must love as Christ did and for whom He died. Alex GayatfootofCross 1 Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2011 I'm often in communication with Muslims about the Bible and the Qur'an, and I don't consider Muslims per se as my enemy. I regularly exchange IMs and posts with a Muslim man on FB, primarily about the Trinity. He claims to believe in Christ as His Savior and in Ellen White as a genuine prophet of God. He grew up in Antioch, Turkey, the same city mentioned in Acts 13: 42-44. He uses the Qur'an as authority in his rejection of the doctrine of the Trinity. He says he wants to be baptized but only by a pastor who is non-Trinitarian. He attends an SDA church and believes in the Sabbath. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 John 317, could you send or post your Quaran notes that you referred to in your post .... Thanks, Val vtimbermail4@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2011 I can send you the references for the teachings of the Qur'an in regard to the beliefs that I spoke of in my posts. Is that what you have in mind? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2011 ...Maybe we really don't have enemies but rather alienated brothers and sisters in Christ for whom we must love as Christ did and for whom He died. I don't have any enemies from my viewpoint, but I certainly do have enemies from the point of view of Islamists. The Bible teaches us that as believers we are to love all people, including our enemies. I agree that Christ loves the Muslims and died for them, and He wants them to be saved. But I don't believe Muslims are "alienated brothers and sisters in Christ." Muslims per se don't accept Christ as the Lord and Savior. They reject the biblical teaching that Christ is Lord. For them Christ is only a man and a messenger and did did not exist in heaven before being born on this earth. Nor, for them, did Christ die on the cross for their sins. So they are not "in [union with] Christ" in the biblical sense. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted February 12, 2011 Members Share Posted February 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: abelisle ...Maybe we really don't have enemies but rather alienated brothers and sisters in Christ for whom we must love as Christ did and for whom He died. I don't have any enemies from my viewpoint, but I certainly do have enemies from the point of view of Islamists. The Bible teaches us that as believers we are to love all people, including our enemies. I agree that Christ loves the Muslims and died for them, and He wants them to be saved. But I don't believe Muslims are "alienated brothers and sisters in Christ." Muslims per se don't accept Christ as the Lord and Savior. They reject the biblical teaching that Christ is Lord. For them Christ is only a man and a messenger and did did not exist in heaven before being born on this earth. Nor, for them, did Christ die on the cross for their sins. So they are not "in [union with] Christ" in the biblical sense. Obviously we misunderstand each other. It doesn't matter what they (Muslims) believe. Christ loves them unconditionally. I didn't say they are "in union with Christ" but rather that they have been alienated through sin. That's what sin does. Christ still wants us to love them as if they are our brothers and sisters. This can only be if we are all "in Christ." Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Yes it is. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 It doesn't matter what they (Muslims) believe. Christ loves them unconditionally. I didn't say they are "in union with Christ" but rather that they have been alienated through sin. That's what sin does. Christ still wants us to love them as if they are our brothers and sisters. This can only be if we are all "in Christ." Whether Muslim, Catholic, or Apostate Protestants. We need to evangelize and pray them out of Babylon and into the remnant church Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2011 ...Obviously we misunderstand each other. It doesn't matter what they (Muslims) believe. Christ loves them unconditionally. I never said Christ doesn't love them unconditionally. Of course Christ loves every human being unconditionally. But wouldn't you agree that there's a difference between God's loving everyone and God's saving everyone. He loves everyone and His love is unconditional, but salvation is conditional and therefore many-- in fact, most-- will be utterly lost. Do you agee with this? It isn't a matter of whether God loves people. Its' a question of whether people really love God and are willing to obey Him. The Bible teaches that if we claim to know Christ or love God but we do not obey His commandments, we are lying and the truth is not in us. 1 John 2: 4,5. Originally Posted By: abelisle I didn't say they are "in union with Christ" but rather that they have been alienated through sin. That's what sin does. Christ still wants us to love them as if they are our brothers and sisters. This can only be if we are all "in Christ." Of course Christ still wants us to love them. I said this in my post. He commands His followers to love everyone. But not all people are "in Christ." The Bible does not teach that all people are "in Christ." Christ said that there are people who have the devil for their father. That means that not all people are children of God. Study John 8: 42 and 1 John 3: 1-10. Jesus categorically denied that the Jews who opposed him had God as their father. People only have God as their father when they are born of the Holy Spirit. That is the Bible's plain teaching. Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, [13] who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 True, unconditional love does not equate to unconditional salvation. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2011 Amen, olger! Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2011 Yes it is. Thanks OK. Are there any particular beliefs taught in the Koran that you would like documented from the Qur'an itself? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2011 ...In December I heard a sermon by Dwight Nelson and he said "Don't let anyone ever tell you that Allah is associated with Lucifer." He also said that Allah is the same God that we worship. Seeing this article reminded me of that sermon. I'm just wondering how people feel about this? I am usually in agreement with Dwight Nelson, but on this subject pastor Nelson is wrong--- that is, unless God contradicts Himself. I believe that there are only two sources of inspiration: either from God or from God's self-declared enemy. There's no question that Muhammad was in contact with a spirit. The only question is who that spirit was. Was it an angel from God or was it an angel from the devil? (As said before, Muhammad was convinced at first that it was an evil spirit.) Which spirit would benefit from the teaching that Christ was not killed on the cross but that it only appeared to the Jews that He was slain? Who benefits from saying that Christ didn't shed His blood for the forgiveness of our sins? I think the answer is self-evident. Would God send an angel in order to communicate things that contradict the message He sent to His prophets and apostles? For instance, would God inspire His prophets to teach that Christ lived in heaven before coming to the earth, but then tell Muhammad that Christ was only a human messenger who never existed in heaven before being born on this earth? Yet that is exactly what must have happened if Dwight Nelson is correct. The same God must have revealed two different teachings regarding Christ. That is to say nothing of all the other significant contradictions between the Qur'an and the Bible. I've read the Koran through at least three times and am reading it again now for the fourth time, comparing 7 different translations. I also studied Islam at California State University and earned a degree in Religion at Loma Linda University. World religions have been a serious hobby of mine since the 1970s. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2011 Yes, it is certainly true that "Allah" can be translated as "God" or "god." But the real question is, is the Allah of the Qur'an the same God as Yahweh of the Bible? It seems to me that the Qur'an is describing a different God than the One we find in the Bible. The Bible teaches that genuine prophets of God will agree with each other. Is. 8: 20; 1 Cor. 14: 37. But the Qur'an teaches many things clean contrary to the Bible. For instance, consider these passages: The Qur'an: "Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the Prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered." Sura 2: 136 "Those who believe in Allah and his messengers and make no distinction between any of them, unto them Allah will give their wages; and Allah is ever forgiving , Merciful." Sura 4: 152 The Bible: Hebrews 1:1-3 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, [2] but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. [3] He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, The Qur'an: "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends." Sura 5: 51 The Bible: 1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. QUESTION: Would the God of the Bible command Muslims not to take Jews and followers of Christ as friends? Not unless He's changed a lot since the time of the NT. The Qur'an: And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they! Sura 9: 30. NOTE: The above categorically denies that the Messiah is the Son of God. There are many verses in the Koran that say the same. The Bible: Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. NOTE: The Bible teaches not only that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, but it teaches plainly that Jesus Christ is God and Jehovah. Compare John 8: 58 & Exodus 3: 14; 1 Cor. 10: 9; Jude 5. 1 Cor. 10:9 We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents, Jude 1:5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2011 Please show from the Qur'an and the Bible that Allah of the Qur'an is the same God as the God of the Bible. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 12, 2011 Members Share Posted February 12, 2011 On my trip the other day, I was listening to a sermon from a preacher, not sure what denomination, about Abraham and Islam. I'm trying to find it online. It was very interesting. Some things I knew others I had no idea about. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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