Twilight II Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: Twilight II The minute you parade "Adventist" in the title you come under the scrutiny of good and regular standing members of the Church. And telling them to "go elsewhere" when they question whether you are in fact representing Adventist views correctly, raises serious concerns about the function of this board in the wider Three Angels Message. It also raises serious questions about whether this board should be examined by the Church at large. Again, Twilight, the challenge is that there a many SDA church members in good standing who regularly post on this board. The enjoy the fellowship and embrace the diverse viewpoints. As a denominational worker of more than a few years I'm proud to be a associated with Club Adventist. Although I do not agree with everything that is done and said that is also the case concerning the conference I work for and even the church that I serve. You cannot remake the church after your own image of it. My point has nothing to do with who is posting on the boards... And it is not about "my image" of the church. The Church has already defined what it is and what it stands for. And that is expressed in the 28 fundamental doctrines of the church. That is what the church represents to the world. Anyone claiming to represent those views, should hold those views. And anyone with responsibility over those views being given, should hold those views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight II Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Quote: Those that come to the Adventist church to specifically try to change its clear biblical mandate, should not be welcome. Why would they? Jesus did not accept the Jews attempts to dilute Christianity... The church does not permit non-members to hold positions of office and responsibility. This board, whilst claiming to represent Adventism, does permit this. So this board actually operates principles that the Church itself does not condone. How can those that are opposed to Adventist views, minister to those seeking to learn about Adventist views? How can those opposed to Adventist views, represent Adventist views? The Adventist church has a mandate to promote and protect the truth of the Gospel, a biblical mandate. That also means that those opposed to that mandate are automatically denied the authority to influence that mandate. It is not a question of "inclusiveness", it is a question of responsibility to the gospel and to the church given the mission of spreading that gospel, the correct gospel to the world. Twilight, In my experience, Adventist views change according to the part of the world you are in. Here in So. California Seventh-day Adventisim is preached and practiced differently then it is in Central California. In Central and South America several of the Pastors are dressed like Catholic priests. Europe and Australia and other contries are all different. If I understand Bravus correctly this is what he is saying. This forum is for the discussion of different understandings and practices within Adventisim. If everyone believes the same thing the discussion only amounts to patting each other on the back. What we are discussing and debating on this forum is what exactly is the "gospel" that must be spread. Are you saying the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church are different in different parts of the world? If they are, you would have a case. But they are not. It is a basic principle of the church that those in positions of responsibility and authority believe and adhere to those 28 fundamental beliefs. Those visiting or interacting with the Church are not held to that standard and neither should be. But we are not talking about beliefs outside of the scope of those 28 fundamentals, or those that are interacting with us that hold those beliefs. What we are discussing is giving authority to those that do not hold those beliefs, over Adventists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight II Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Actually it does pertain very much to the topic at hand. I believe there are not a few who would indeed see your views as spiritualistic and alarming. SDAs. Soooo, What kind of Adventists be you talking about? The ones that would ignore your thinking in that one area to back you in revamping this board according to your picture and theirs? Personally I'd give you 30 days to have it your-and their- way. Originally Posted By: Twilight II ... As to the subject of the heart, I have not presented anything that is not fully supported by the bible. ... How that relates to this discussion however is extremely unclear? The point being discussed is why there is a lack of moderators on the board. Your personal view of my beliefs being spiritualism does not really relate to this topic... :-) Originally Posted By: Twilight II ... The minute the board serves that purpose it IS answerable to other Adventists of good and regular standing in the church. If it does not want to be examined and questioned, then it should not have the name Adventist in its title. [/quote'] I know Teresa, you accuse me of being a Spiritualist because I present the biblical truth that the Holy Spirit dwells in the heart... 2Cr 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. And condemn me because I believe the heart is the seat of the emotions... But how exactly does that conflict with any of the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church. Which one am I throwing out by holding to these truths? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Quote: My point has nothing to do with who is posting on the boards... And it is not about "my image" of the church. The Church has already defined what it is and what it stands for. And that is expressed in the 28 fundamental doctrines of the church. That is what the church represents to the world. Anyone claiming to represent those views, should hold those views. And anyone with responsibility over those views being given, should hold those views. Then why have discussion? If the 28 fundamentals are the creed and dogma of the Seventh-day Adventist church then we might as well close the doors and go home (so to speak). How do you think we came to have 28 fundamentals? Did God appear to some church leader, like he did to Moses, and say here are 28, oh pardon me, 27 fundamentals, and then later on appear again and say, I have added one more, which I inadvertantly omitted. NO. We have 28 fundamentls because a committee of leaders decided upon them. We are a committee of Adventists on this board and we are discussing truths from the Bible and how we understand them, and that is what a forum is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Yes. I understand you believe the bible teaches that the heart literally thinks and feels, etc. My point is that there are those who see that as spiritualism. If it is spiritualism, are you saying that it is not covered in the 28Fs?, therefore is ok? Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) Actually it does pertain very much to the topic at hand. I believe there are not a few who would indeed see your views as spiritualistic and alarming. SDAs. Soooo, What kind of Adventists be you talking about? The ones that would ignore your thinking in that one area to back you in revamping this board according to your picture and theirs? Personally I'd give you 30 days to have it your-and their- way. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight II Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Quote: My point has nothing to do with who is posting on the boards... And it is not about "my image" of the church. The Church has already defined what it is and what it stands for. And that is expressed in the 28 fundamental doctrines of the church. That is what the church represents to the world. Anyone claiming to represent those views, should hold those views. And anyone with responsibility over those views being given, should hold those views. Then why have discussion? If the 28 fundamentals are the creed and dogma of the Seventh-day Adventist church then we might as well close the doors and go home (so to speak). How do you think we came to have 28 fundamentals? Did God appear to some church leader, like he did to Moses, and say here are 28, oh pardon me, 27 fundamentals, and then later on appear again and say, I have added one more, which I inadvertantly omitted. NO. We have 28 fundamentls because a committee of leaders decided upon them. We are a committee of Adventists on this board and we are discussing truths from the Bible and how we understand them, and that is what a forum is all about. How we came to them is irrelevant to this discussion, whether we add to them is irrelevant. When we are baptised we consent that we agree with them. But one thing is clear, someone who does not adhere to them, is stating they do not hold to the teachings of the SDA church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 8, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2011 Would be good to hear more testimonials in this thread from those who love this place and are happy here. Lots of people have been posting here for the best part of a decade - the joint must being doing *something* right. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight II Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Yes. I understand you believe the bible teaches that the heart literally thinks and feels, etc. My point is that there are those who see that as spiritualism. If it is spiritualism, are you saying that it is not covered in the 28Fs?, therefore is ok? If these teachings are contrary to the teaches of the SDA church I would leave it in a heart beat Teresa... But because they are contrary to your understanding does not make them spiritualistic, nor does it make them an attack on the 28 fundamental beliefs of the church. Your argument holds no water. It is merely an attemt to discredit my argument by trying to portray my understanding as spiritualistic and therefore invalid. The Holy Spirit dwells in the believers heart Teresa: 2Cr 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. If you think it furthers your argument by trying to paint me as a "spiritualist" for agreeing with these two texts, then you are mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight II Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Would be good to hear more testimonials in this thread from those who love this place and are happy here. Lots of people have been posting here for the best part of a decade - the joint must being doing *something* right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 8, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 8, 2011 *cough*off topic*cough* Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 If what you are saying is that what you believe (practice of the 28 fundamentals without question) must be the requirement in order to post on this forum, then this forum is irrelevant, because everyone would be in one accord there would be no discussion or debate. No testing ones faith or understanding, because that has been settled by the conference committee. You said that Jesus started the church, did He give us the 28 fundamentals at that time? No. There was no SDA church at that time and when the SDA church started there were no fundamentals for a number of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight II Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 *cough*off topic*cough* Agreed. I think Teresas attempt to paint me as a spiritualist should be considered as "off topic". She is free to start another thread where she can explain how I am such a thing as she claims. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 You haven't addressed the question. Is spiritualism covered in the 28Fs? Is spiritualism defined in the 28Fs? Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) Yes. I understand you believe the bible teaches that the heart literally thinks and feels, etc. My point is that there are those who see that as spiritualism. If it is spiritualism, are you saying that it is not covered in the 28Fs?, therefore is ok? If these teachings are contrary to the teaches of the SDA church I would leave it in a heart beat Teresa... .... Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight II Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 If what you are saying is that what you believe (practice of the 28 fundamentals without question) must be the requirement in order to post on this forum, then this forum is irrelevant, because everyone would be in one accord there would be no discussion or debate. No testing ones faith or understanding, because that has been settled by the conference committee. You said that Jesus started the church, did He give us the 28 fundamentals at that time? No. There was no SDA church at that time and when the SDA church started there were no fundamentals for a number of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight II Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 You haven't addressed the question. Is spiritualism covered in the 28Fs? Is spiritualism defined in the 28Fs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayfinder Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 What makes the forum Adventist? If they keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus, and believe He is coming soon! Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Okay, end of discussion!!! Mods believe in the commandments and the testimony of Jesus, and that He will return. How do I know this? They have declared it on many occasions. Whew, I thought this thread would never finish! Next topic!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I am basically happy here...but finding it harder and harder to find areas where "Please do try to at least address the arguments I'm presenting, rather than something you're projecting onto them." is practiced. Whatever I ultimately decide to do-given the ever-narrowing scope- fairly soon I hope to contribute if my "work" does not die, because I have participated pretty much at will, except for the above mentioned. Would be good to hear more testimonials in this thread from those who love this place and are happy here. Lots of people have been posting here for the best part of a decade - the joint must being doing *something* right. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 I have really enjoyed posting and reading posts in my years here. I'd be very curious as to any moderators that are not Adventists? I'm not sure of who all are moderators, the ones that I know of, John, Bravus, Shane, Teresaq, LynDel, are SDA, unless I'm wrong, let me know. And from what I can tell, it seems there is only one person that seems to have a problem with the moderators from what I can tell. Not sure why, because in all my years here I have never seen a real problem with the moderators and that includes Neil, who in my book is really missed. As far as those that have left for one reason or another, I'd say that's there problem and not any thing to do with how they've been treated by any particular moderator. And most of them have come to the forum to try and convince SDAs that they are being duped and when they've been here long enough and not able to do there so-called job they complain and are no longer heard from. That has been my experience/observation. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 I'm getting confused with a Twilight I and a Twilight II.... And what is this little box down in the left hand corner??? I click on it and it takes me to : http://cdn.attracta.com/badge/verify/751456.html "Friday we submitted a site that was nowhere on Google. By Monday it was on page one." interesting.. Quote Pam      Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Quote: I have really enjoyed posting and reading posts in my years here.I'd be very curious as to any moderators that are not Adventists? I'm not sure of who all are moderators, the ones that I know of, John, Bravus, Shane, Teresaq, LynDel, are SDA, unless I'm wrong, let me know. And from what I can tell, it seems there is only one person that seems to have a problem with the moderators from what I can tell. Not sure why, because in all my years here I have never seen a real problem with the moderators and that includes Neil, who in my book is really missed. As far as those that have left for one reason or another, I'd say that's there problem and not any thing to do with how they've been treated by any particular moderator. And most of them have come to the forum to try and convince SDAs that they are being duped and when they've been here long enough and not able to do there so-called job they complain and are no longer heard from. That has been my experience/observation. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Quote: What we are discussing and debating on this forum is what exactly is the "gospel" that must be spread. I can understand why you chose the name "Wayfinder". However a person who preaches the gospel, reveals the Way. Otherwise it is some other gospel. "Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6 NLT "I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed." Gal 1:6-9 NKJV God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 8, 2011 Administrators Share Posted August 8, 2011 ...The minute it isn't, it becomes a "liberal think tank" that discusse Adventism, rather than an Adventist board...So many Adventists confuse "liberalism" with "love"... EGW said that the pharisees considered Jesus to be far too 'liberal'. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 8, 2011 Administrators Share Posted August 8, 2011 This is a forum not a tribunal! ... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I take your comment more that you don't wish to acknowledge this as a valid point than that it is "off topic". My point still stands that there are those who would not acknowledge you as representative of the church because of your beliefs in certain areas. In fact I have heard comments from certain "self-appointed" defenders of the faith that I know the "higher-ups" would look askance on and would most certainly distance themself from such persons. I find it funny that you and others are all worried about the "right beliefs" while I care more about the "right behavior". I couldn't care less how right someone believed, if they are abusive in any form. As I would not let a womanbeater/rapist/pedophile into my home, by the same token I do not associate with the verbal/emotional abusers in my church. Unfortunately so many are so out of touch with themselves, and/or used to being in an abusive home/church that they do not have a clue what is meant when it is brought up. I have no idea on how to reach such. Hopefully those consciences have not been seared as with an iron. Anyway, I see beliefs as important, but behavior would have to trump that in my book. Since I have seen "error" in many of those who would be the judges of what is ok for this forum, I am not sure there could be anyone to decide. Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) You haven't addressed the question. Is spiritualism covered in the 28Fs? Is spiritualism defined in the 28Fs? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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