How to keep the Sabbath

[doug yowell]

What do you mean by "common labor"?

Does sailing fall under the definition of common labor?

If you study the wind, know how to use it to get from point a to point b, and you find joy in it on the Sabbath day, what's to say that it is wrong to do?

Is sailing out to find a place to read and worship God on the Sabbath any different than just sailing and enjoying the ride?

Common labor??? Is this one of those difficult terms to fully understand? Do you sail for a living? Does sailing demand a 6 days a week commitment in order to eat and pay the bills? Is sailing so common that it has become everything for happiness and survival? Common labor.

[Overaged]

Common labor??? Is this one of those difficult terms to fully understand? Do you sail for a living? Does sailing demand a 6 days a week commitment in order to eat and pay the bills? Is sailing so common that it has become everything for happiness and survival? Common labor.

Well; I just stated that anyone who has to ask this question likely has a legalistic view of the Sabbath; but now that i read this answer to the legalistic view, I have to conclude that anyone with an "answer" to such a question must also have the same kind of belief. I am sure that if EVERYONE went by your rule here that we would all be perfect little Sabbath keepers, with our stiff little ties, our Sabbath school pants, and clicking into the foyer with our nice little church shoes; all triumphant and self-satisfied that we did not sail when we were not "supposed" to.

[doug yowell]

So, since nobody can actually know what common labor is we can't really know what God expects of us when speaking to us of "Six days you shalt thou labor." I'm not going for the "it depends on what you mean by the word is" method of determining normal communications. Actually, you were right to note that the above question seemed aimed at a understanding the concept by demanding an exact definition that waas outside the purvue of common language communication. Can we know what the terms mean when we employ them? If not, then we spend endless hours arguing their definitions. What is common labor?

[Overaged]

So, since nobody can actually know what common labor is we can't really know what God expects of us when speaking to us of "Six days you shalt thou labor." I'm not going for the "it depends on what you mean by the word is" method of determining normal communications. Actually, you were right to note that the above question seemed aimed at a understanding the concept by demanding an exact definition that waas outside the purvue of common language communication. Can we know what the terms mean when we employ them? If not, then we spend endless hours arguing their definitions. What is common labor?

Love that word "purview..."

But i think you still have those too-tight little church shoes on today...

[BobRyan]

I freely admit that in addition to the specific identification of Is 58 and the Sabbath message with this remnant church seen below - Ellen White also emphasized other truths found in Isaiah 58.

A breach has been made in God’s law—the wall that He placed around His chosen ones for their protection, and obedience to whose precepts of justice, truth, and purity is to be their perpetual safeguard. The prophet points out the specific work of this remnant people who built the wall: “If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the Lord honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly; then you shall take delight in the Lord, and I will make you ride upon the heights of the earth.” Isaiah 58:13, 14, RSV. {SS 351.3}

[doug yowell]

But i think you still have those too-tight little church shoes on today...

Nonsense!! I only wear them on Sabbath so I don't get them mixed up with the ones I usually work in.

[Gail]

hehehe

[doug yowell]

.

I was also quite pleasantly surprised to find that EGW said this the 58th chapter is the message for the end of time that needs to be preached again and again. She was not talking about the Sabbath part of it.

Other than this statement I fully agree with everything you've said,Tom, so what am I missing? If she was NOT talking about the Sabbath part of Is.58 how do you explain all the references in which she specifically ties the Sabbath part to it? If you had said that she was not talking "only" about the Sabbath part I think I would understand, but almost every scriptural reference in the Bible to the Sabbath addresses the how to keep it holy.This was/is the message of Is.58 so how does she use it without using it? It is not merely a question of which day is the correct day to consider holy but also how God describes what that holiness requires(the question of the thread)that the Bible addresses, don't you agree?

[Overaged]

LOL; I had to have a little fun at your expense! Been a while since I gave you a good grilling...

[BobRyan]

I freely admit that in addition to the specific identification of Is 58 and the Sabbath message with this remnant church seen below - Ellen White also emphasized other truths found in Isaiah 58.

Originally Posted By: Splendor to Shadow

A breach has been made in God’s law—the wall that He placed around His chosen ones for their protection, and obedience to whose precepts of justice, truth, and purity is to be their perpetual safeguard. The prophet points out the specific work of this remnant people who built the wall: “If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the Lord honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly; then you shall take delight in the Lord, and I will make you ride upon the heights of the earth.” Isaiah 58:13, 14, RSV. {SS 351.3}

The either-or-fallacy that assumes that both aspects are not present in the same chapter is a form of doctrinal error.

"Speaking your own word" - "talking idly" is mentioned in the SAME Sabbath context as "seeking your own pleasure".

And outside the Sabbath context - we have good deeds to the poor for "The poor you have with you always" as Christ said when someone claimed "piety" by condemning extravagant expense poured out on Christ to the supposed neglect of the poor. It is interesting that the one making that claim against such worship of Christ in the gospel - in reality had no concern at all for the poor. They were simply using the poor as a plausible form of criticism.

in Christ,

Bob

[Tom Wetmore]

Read the whole chapter and see how each of the phrases in verses 13 and 14 find their meaning in parallel use earlier in the chapter. The whole chapter links the Sabbath to the end of selfishness by caring for others. The Sabbath serves as the reminder in time to stop serving ourselves and do for others. The end time significance is that those who truly keep the Sabbath are very other-minded people that love one another. That was precisely Christ's message when he identified his true followers as the ones that love one another. He further emphasized this by describing the deciding factor of the judgement as those that go to the aid of the least of these as distinguished from those that ignore them. (Matthew 25:31-46) The list of those in need parallels that shown in Isaiah 58. Also notice that his announcement of his ministry here on earth made that proclamation from Isaiah of loosing the bonds, etc.

This is the part that EGW repeatedly emphasizes as the work of the Sabbath-keepers. She is not neglecting the Sabbath by doing so, as I have already pointed out. She is in fact amplifying its significance for the end of time. Any conclusion that I have suggested otherwise or that I am advocating minimizing the Sabbath myself is simply wrong. I don't know where you get that I have even remotely suggested an "either or" approach. I believe if you read all of what EGW has to say about Isaiah 58 and what I have tried to get across, it is that the Sabbath and caring for others is an integrated message.

Your responses to all of this seem to reflect a resistance to the complete message of Isaiah 58. Why is that?

[Overaged]

Read the whole chapter and see how each of the phrases in verses 13 and 14 find their meaning in parallel use earlier in the chapter. The whole chapter links the Sabbath to the end of selfishness by caring for others. The Sabbath serves as the reminder in time to stop serving ourselves and do for others.

[doug yowell]

LOL; I had to have a little fun at your expense! Been a while since I gave you a good grilling...

Thanks for the reminer OA, I was starting to think you didn't care.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

LOL; I had to have a little fun at your expense! Been a while since I gave you a good grilling...

Thanks for the reminer OA, I was starting to think you didn't care.

[doug yowell]

I agree; the Sabbath here in Isaiah 58 is being given special emphasis for the end times. My fear is that people will get stuck in "correct behavior" mantra and practice, if, like your post seems to be doing, they over-emphasize the behavior end of our religion, and the practice thereof. The Jews made the same mistake. We cannot earn God's approval by doing all these fine and right things you emphasize. This is really important to realize withing the over-all message of Isaiah 58.

The title of the thread and the original question posed addresses behavior. Almost every Bible reference on the Sabbath addresses behavior. There is a reason for this. The Sabbath, being spiritual(but I am carnal,sold under sin)is a holy day,unlike the other 6 days.And as humans we are bound to misunderstand and violate it's purpose.Sometimes,like the NT Pharisees, sometimes like the OT Jews. Whether we are liberal or conservative we always tend to become umbalanced, focusing in on one aspect to the neglect of another. In our last day emphasis we are having to also address a great number of people who have never even heard of the Sabbath or who now believe that the Sabbath is no longer a spiritual exercise.The unconverted heart can never stumble into God's rest by behaving in any manner. The converted looks to act(behave) in a way that pleases God using the Bible as a guide to that desired end.

[Overaged]

The Sabbath is not just "a spiritual exercise." Doug. That is a big mistake

[doug yowell]

The Sabbath is not just "a spiritual exercise." Doug. That is a big mistake

What do you mean?

[Tom Wetmore]

As it relates to Won's opening question of this topic, The point I made was that he seemed to be stuck, as many Adventists, on the word "pleasure". We see it through modern English speaking minds. That leads us down the rabbit trail of worrying about things we do that are enjoyable, recreational, etc.

But that was not what the original message of God through Isaiah was even talking about. In fact one is hard-pressed to find much, if anything, Scriptural about recreational, leisure time activities in any context, much less on the Sabbath. Scripturally, that was a non-issue. So yes, all of this does go way beyond what Won originally asked, but serves to show that in comparison to what was really at issue in Isaiah 58, the original question should be seen as very much a non-issue, something not to really worry about.

As for the parallelisms, that is a distinct and important Hebrew literary device that amplifies, deepens and clarifies meaning. That is an important reason to read the full context. We can miss a lot by isolating a phrase, sentence or verse without looking beyond it.

And as for the "correct behavior" legalistic approach I think there is a hint of hope in Jesus' account of the judgment. It seems that neither category, those who did do it for the least as unto Jesus and those that didn't. Neither group seemed aware of what they did or didn't do. I like to refer to this as the parable of the clueless saints. Both groups seem surprised. I think the saints were surprised because what they did was from the heart, it came naturally. They weren't trying to earn their way or trying to impress Jesus with how good they were. It just came through as the result of the love in their hearts for others.

[BobRyan]

Quote:

You love your ease too well. You are not painstaking enough. Constant effort is required, constant watchfulness and earnest, fervent prayer. Keep the mind in a praying mood, uplifted to God; be not slothful in business, but fervent in spirit, serving the Lord. {2T 701.2}

You have failed in your family to appreciate the sacredness of the Sabbath and to teach it to your children and enjoin upon them the importance of keeping it according to the commandment. Your sensibilities are not clear and ready to discern the high standard that we must reach in order to be commandment keepers. But God will assist you in your efforts when you take hold of the work earnestly. You should possess perfect control over yourself; then you can have better success in controlling your children when they are unruly. There is a great work before you to repair past neglects; but you are not required to perform it in your own strength. Ministering angels will aid you in the work. Do not give up the work nor lay aside the burden, but take hold of it with a will and repair your long neglect. You must have higher views of God’s claims upon you in regard to His holy day. Everything that can possibly be done on the six days which God has given to you, should be done. You should not rob God of one hour of holy time. Great blessings are promised to those who place a high estimate upon the Sabbath and realize the obligations resting upon them in regard to its observance: “If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath [from trampling upon it, setting it at nought], from doing thy pleasure on My holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable; and shalt honor Him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.” {2T 701.3}

As you read the inspired statement above - which part seems to jump out at you?

in Christ,

Bob

[CoAspen]

[Tom Wetmore]

"Remember the Sabbath..."

It seems this topic was quickly forgotten.

Hmmmm...

[Tom Wetmore]

As you read the inspired statement above - which part seems to jump out at you?

Random bright red text...

Mysterious symbols and numbers - "&#146" , "&#147" and ?&#148"

But what jumps out most is what was left out. Context, to whom the message was directed, the point you were making...

[Overaged]

I wonder if anyone in the church even knows what God means by "remember" the Sabbath? I wonder who knows; what is the Sabbath?

[Tom Wetmore]

Sabbath is a verb.

[Overaged]

Sabbath is a verb.

Good point Tom! So what does that mean re "the Sabbath truth?" How does this help define what the Sabbath actually is?"