Vieth and conspiracy theories

[Stan]

This is a good read.

http://religiousliberty.tv/the-problem-i-have-with-conspiracy-theories.html

[fccool]

Quote:

Ultimately, there is one grand conspiracy theory that is true. That conspiracy theory is that Satan, the master deceiver and enemy of all that is good, is conspiring with and using sinful men to overthrow God and His people.

Lol... yes, all conspiracy theories are crazy and cause us to distrust authorities, even though many have ample support in actual verifiable facts... but this one is true, even though there is no possible way to check or verify it.

I find it ironic how such double-standards are set and maintained.

[Gibs]

Gee Stan,

I can't agree 100% and I will take the title I suppose conspiracy "scientist".

I usually like what Walter Vieth says but I didn't see that he was in the article.

The evil infiltration today is everywhere and we must be awake to it. What I see is what these scriptures state.

2Ti 3:1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

We are not home yet and too much laxity is rampant in conforming to Godliness

I'm 80 years old and I know that I am a short timer and am just as sure we ALL are now. Jesus will come as soon as this time of trouble we are starting in now is over.

Bro. Gibs.

[CoAspen]

Yup, yes and amen!

[phkrause]

Yes a great read. I have problems with theories period.

[phkrause]

Lol... yes, all conspiracy theories are crazy and cause us to distrust authorities, even though many have ample support in actual verifiable facts... but this one is true, even though there is no possible way to check or verify it.

I find it ironic how such double-standards are set and maintained.

Even though I basicly agree with you, I don't agree that: Ultimately, there is one grand conspiracy theory that is true. That conspiracy theory is that Satan, the master deceiver and enemy of all that is good, is conspiring with and using sinful men to overthrow God and His people. is a true conspiracy theory, its not a theory at all, its the truth.

[Gerr]

I listen to Dr. Veith often. While some of what he says really stretches my credulity, as public as his atatements are, he can't be making up those wild charges. What he says seems to be well-researched. For now, I'll have to withhold judgment. What's the adage? Truth is stranger than fiction?

[Gerr]

From the article:

"In fact, the Bible teaches that God is the one who controls the affairs of the governments of this world; He is the one who determines who will rule the world – not a bunch of evil men."

Did God bring Stalin and Hitler to power?

[Gail]

How about Pharaoh:

Quote:

Romans 9:17- For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Sometimes God DOES raise up evil men to bring about His purpose.

[Gail]

Now THERE'S a wrench to our neat little thinking! :)

[CoAspen]

The difficult concept, on our part at least, is the idea that God allows evil to exist in those around us. I don't subscribe to the idea that God makes people purposely that way, that would make Him out to be evil and inhuman. All make choices in life as to the path they follow with more than one decision point.

[phkrause]

I do agree that God raise's up and get's rid of Kings, Presidents, etc., but he doesn't make them evil or corrupt. Like back in the OT to punish Israel he would allow others to capture them, but if they treated Israel bad or Israel would repent, he would than another kingdom, etc. to take down them. And on and on it would go. I think its no different today.

[BobRyan]

This is a good read.

I am pretty sure that when we all get to heaven we will find out that there were no conspiracies on earth.

[BobRyan]

The difficult concept, on our part at least, is the idea that God allows evil to exist in those around us. I don't subscribe to the idea that God makes people purposely that way,

Paul says in Romans 3 that we are all born with the depraved sinful nature.

God says in Genesis 2 that IF you want to see things left "just as God made them" then don't CHOOSE to eat of the tree of knowledge and die.

So while someone may not choose to subscribe to those parts of the Bible - they are true all the same.

in Christ,

Bob

[Kountzer]

I like Dr Walter Veith. One of the things I like about The glory Star satellite tv network is the fact that Veith and the Amazing Discovery channel are part of it. I don't buy everything he says, but he does his research. I enjoy the other preacher and presenters on there as well.

[Bravus]

I like Dr Walter Veith. ... I don't buy everything he says, but he does his research. I enjoy the other preacher and presenters on there as well.

What's that thing they say about truth mixed with error...?

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Kountzer

I like Dr Walter Veith. ... I don't buy everything he says, but he does his research. I enjoy the other preacher and presenters on there as well.

What's that thing they say about truth mixed with error...?

I don't believe that's what he means when he says he doesn't buy everything he says. Haven't you ever heard something you don't buy? Doesn't necessarily mean its error!

[Dr. Shane]

What's that thing they say about truth mixed with error...?

I have thought a long time about that. Isn't most truth mixed with error? Personally I believe the Bible is the only source of truth without error but even it needs to be read in the context of its authors, their culture, language and customs.

So if I concede that all human teachings are a mix of truth and error, it becomes up to me to hold those teaches up to the Bible teachings in order to decide what to believe and what not to believe. I have no other measure.

Unfortunately the Bible cannot measure all teachings for truth and error. If a man teaches the pope killed JFK (just an example), the Bible isn't going to tell me if that is true or not. Such is the case with many conspiracy theories.

It isn't the fact that there is some truth mixed with error that gives me cause for concern so much as it is alarmist and conspiracy theory teachings. I find it very difficult to buy into conspiracy theories on a grand scale.

[LifeHiscost]

Yup, yes and amen!

Agreed, The next question I have to ask is "What am I doing to help others see that God not only wants them to know how much He loves them, but what am I doing as His child to help that one to which He wants to reveal Himself.

"....looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God..."2 Peter 3:12 NKJV

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matthew 24:14 KJV

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: fccool

Lol... yes, all conspiracy theories are crazy and cause us to distrust authorities, even though many have ample support in actual verifiable facts... but this one is true, even though there is no possible way to check or verify it.

I find it ironic how such double-standards are set and maintained.

Even though I basicly agree with you, I don't agree that: Ultimately, there is one grand conspiracy theory that is true. That conspiracy theory is that Satan, the master deceiver and enemy of all that is good, is conspiring with and using sinful men to overthrow God and His people. is a true conspiracy theory, its not a theory at all, its the truth.

God blesses!

[Kountzer]

Originally Posted By: Kountzer

I like Dr Walter Veith. ... I don't buy everything he says, but he does his research. I enjoy the other preacher and presenters on there as well.

What's that thing they say about truth mixed with error...?

There is some human speculation in every sermon or lecture presented by everyone. When you mix the divine with fallable, finite humans, the end result is going to be less than perfect. I don't dwell totally on the amazing discoveries channel. But, the stuff presented that I have paid attention to is better than 95 percent of the stuff presented on gospel television and radio. I mean evolution is a hoax, a huge hoax. So is the whole 'left behind' theory, which millions have swallowed hook line and sinker.

Besides, I wouldn't expect Veith to go over well on this forum. In many respects this in scoffers central.

[LifeHiscost]

From the article:

"In fact, the Bible teaches that God is the one who controls the affairs of the governments of this world; He is the one who determines who will rule the world – not a bunch of evil men."

Did God bring Stalin and Hitler to power?

Did God bring the Assyrians against the Israelites because they needed the correction?

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

This is a good read.

I am pretty sure that when we all get to heaven we will find out that there were no conspiracies on earth.

Guess that shoots this if it is found to be true.

"And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. "Revelation 12:7-9 NKJV

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Besides, I wouldn't expect Veith to go over well on this forum. In many respects this in scoffers central.

God blesses!

[John317]

This is a good read.

http://religiousliberty.tv/the-problem-i-have-with-conspiracy-theories.html

The writer makes some good points, but he also neglects to mention some very important statements on the topic by Ellen White which I believe we may be in danger of forgetting:

Quote:

Throughout Christendom, Protestantism was menaced by formidable foes. The first triumphs of the Reformation past, Rome summoned new forces, hoping to accomplish its destruction. At this time, the order of the Jesuits was created, the most cruel, unscrupulous, and powerful of all the champions of popery. Cut off from every earthly tie and human interest, dead to the claims of natural affection, reason and conscience wholly silenced, they knew no rule, no tie, but that of their order, and no duty but to extend its power. The gospel of Christ had enabled its adherents to meet danger and endure suffering, undismayed by cold, hunger, toil, and poverty, to uphold the banner of truth in face of the rack, the dungeon, and the stake. To combat these forces, Jesuitism inspired its followers with a fanaticism that enabled them to endure like dangers, and to oppose to the power of truth all the weapons of deception. There was no crime too great for them to commit, no deception too base for them to practice, no disguise too difficult for them to assume. Vowed to perpetual poverty and humility, it was their studied aim to secure wealth and power, to be devoted to the overthrow of Protestantism, and the re-establishment of the papal supremacy. {GC88 234.2}

When appearing as members of their order, they wore a garb of sanctity, visiting prisons and hospitals, ministering to the sick and the poor, professing to have renounced the world, and bearing the sacred name of Jesus, who went about doing good. But under this blameless exterior the most criminal and deadly purposes were concealed. It was a fundamental principle of the order that the end justifies the means. By this code, lying, theft, perjury, assassination, were not only pardonable but commendable, when they served the interests of the church. Under various disguises the Jesuits worked their way into offices of State, climbing up to be the counselors of kings, and shaping the policy of nations. They became servants, to act as spies upon their masters. They established colleges for the sons of princes and nobles, and schools for the common people; and the children of Protestant parents were drawn into an observance of popish rites. All the outward pomp and display of the Romish worship was brought to bear to confuse the mind, and dazzle and captivate the imagination; and thus the liberty for which the fathers had toiled and bled was betrayed by the sons. The Jesuits rapidly spread themselves over Europe, and wherever they went, there followed a revival of popery. {GC88 234.3}

To give them greater power, a bull was issued re-establishing the Inquisition. Notwithstanding the general abhorrence with which it was regarded, even in Catholic countries, this terrible tribunal was again set up by popish rulers, and atrocities too terrible to bear the light of day were repeated in its secret dungeons. In many countries, thousands upon thousands of the very flower of the nation, the purest and noblest, the most intellectual and highly educated, pious and devoted pastors, industrious and patriotic citizens, brilliant scholars, talented artists, skillful artisans, were slain, or forced to flee to other lands. {GC88 235.1}

Such were the means which Rome had invoked to quench the light of the Reformation, to withdraw from men the Bible, and to restore the ignorance and superstition of the Dark Ages. But under God's blessing and the labors of those noble men whom he had raised up to succeed Luther, Protestantism was not overthrown.

Quote:

“With the flight of the Huguenots a general decline settled upon France. Flourishing manufacturing cities fell into decay; fertile districts returned to their native wildness; intellectual dullness and moral declension succeeded a period of unwonted progress. Paris became one vast almshouse, and it is estimated that, at the breaking out of the Revolution, two hundred thousand paupers claimed charity from the hands of the king. The Jesuits alone flourished in the decaying nation, and ruled with dreadful tyranny over churches and schools, the prisons and the galleys.” {GC88 279.1}

The gospel would have brought to France the solution of those political and social problems that baffled the skill of her clergy, her king, and her legislators, and finally plunged the nation into anarchy and ruin. But under the domination of Rome, the people had lost the Saviour's blessed lessons of self-sacrifice and unselfish love. They had been led away from the practice of self-denial for the good of others. The rich had found no rebuke for their oppression of the poor, the poor no help for their servitude and degradation. The selfishness of the wealthy and powerful grew more and more apparent and oppressive. For centuries the greed and profligacy of the noble resulted in grinding extortion toward the peasant. The rich wronged the poor, and the poor hated the rich. {GC88 279.2}

Quote:

It is true that there are real Christians in the Roman Catholic communion. Thousands in that church are serving God according to the best light they have. They are not allowed access to his Word, and therefore they do not discern the truth. They have never seen the contrast between a living heart-service and a round of mere forms and ceremonies. God looks with pitying tenderness upon these souls, educated as they are in a faith that is delusive and unsatisfying. He will cause rays of light to penetrate the dense darkness that surrounds them. He will reveal to them the truth, as it is in Jesus, and many will yet take their position with his people. {GC88 565.2}

But Romanism as a system is no more in harmony with the gospel of Christ now than at any former period in her history. The Protestant churches are in great darkness, or they would discern the signs of the times. The Roman Church is far-reaching in her plans and modes of operation. She is employing every device to extend her influence and increase her power in preparation for a fierce and determined conflict to regain control of the world, to re-establish persecution, and to undo all that Protestantism has done. Catholicism is gaining ground upon every side. See the increasing number of her churches and chapels in Protestant countries. Look at the popularity of her colleges and seminaries in America, so widely patronized by Protestants Look at the growth of ritualism in England, and the frequent defections to the ranks of the Catholics. These things should awaken the anxiety of all who prize the pure principles of the gospel. {GC88 565, 566}

Protestants have tampered with and patronized popery; they have made compromises and concessions which papists themselves are surprised to see, and fail to understand. Men are closing their eyes to the real character of Romanism, and the dangers to be apprehended from her supremacy. The people need to be aroused to resist the advances of this most dangerous foe to civil and religious liberty. {GC88 566.1}

Many Protestants suppose that the Catholic religion is unattractive, and that its worship is a dull, meaningless round of ceremony. Here they mistake. While Romanism is based upon deception, it is not a coarse and clumsy imposture. The religious service of the Romish Church is a most impressive ceremonial. Its gorgeous display and solemn rites fascinate the senses of the people, and silence the voice of reason and of conscience. The eye is charmed. Magnificent churches, imposing processions, golden altars, jeweled shrines, choice paintings, and exquisite sculpture appeal to the love of beauty. The ear also is captivated. The music is unsurpassed. The rich notes of the deep-toned organ, blending with the melody of many voices as it swells through the lofty domes and pillared aisles of her grand cathedrals, cannot fail to impress the mind with awe and reverence. {GC88 566.2}

This outward splendor, pomp, and ceremony, that only mocks the longings of the sin-sick soul, is an evidence of inward corruption. The religion of Christ needs not such attractions to recommend it. In the light shining from the cross, true Christianity appears so pure and lovely that no external decorations can enhance its true worth. It is the beauty of holiness, a meek and quiet spirit, which is of value with God. {GC88 566.3}