Why I am a former SDA

[miz3]

One day I think I am going to sit down and count how many EGW quotes I read compared to the number of Bible quotes I see. I would not be surprised if I see a great number more EGW ones.

Excellent point EmptyCross.

This is typical of SDA. They view the words of Ellen White as greater than those of the Bible while all the time denying that is what they are doing.

If you point this FACT out then you are accused of hating the SOP and thus you are more evil than a heretic.

Talk about "blind guides".

[ClubV12]

"They view the words of Ellen White as greater than those of the Bible."

Thats a "figment of your imagination".

[dialoguewithus]

I've been told by SDAs that "the Bible says the second death is eternal". And they like to focus on the national Sunday law theory, which is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. No one takes everything in the Bible literally, and the mark of the beast is a good example of that when we refer to SDAs. A verse they ignore in their Bible commentary is Rev. 2:26-28. Maybe the text clashes with their theology.

[M. T. Cross]

I just find it curious that EGW quotes are used so much when talking to non Adventists. As examples of how we should view truths. If it was me and I was trying to convince people that it was a church of Biblical truths I would stick just with the Bible, once you have convinced them of that then move on to convincing them that this woman was indeed a prophet.

[Tobiwan]

I'm getting involved sort of late in this thread, and having recently attended a baptism and viewed the list of "do you's and will you's" that took place B4 the getting wet part, I am not sure I would be able to say "I do or I will." My picture of God has changed so very much over the years that I and a few of my like minded friends have come close to being "churched" for our presentation of a friendly God.

I like the God I have now much better then the one I grew up with as a child in the church.

As for all the discussions that have taken place over the years, producing more heat then light, I feel they are interesting topics, that we will not get conclusive answers to.

Creation, short term or long term, truth is we were not there to observe the process. I think it would be foolish on our part to not suspect our enemy to having seeded the world with questionable evidence to undermine our faith in God.

Are there questions about the time line? yes, many many questions and theories, but very few conclusions.

Killing in the OT, needs to be looked at in the context of the whole story.

God said I will send the hornets before you to clear the land, He used a wall of water to destroy at the Red Sea. His angel put to sleep the first born. Just march around the city and shout. His angel put to sleep 185,000, after the time before when He blinded them and sent them home. He sent out the choir and caused the great storm.

They said "we want to be like the other nations" , "We want a king like the other nations." God said "They have rejected me. if you want to be like the other nations and fight, this is how you do it"

All these distractions, as interesting and exciting as they are, are keeping us from completing the assignment given to us of preaching (yes the foolishness of preaching) the gospel to the world, so the end can come and we can ask the questions of the Person that has the answers.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: fccool

There are really two types of people in the world. The non-religious, and simpletons...

I wouldn't say that... Some of the most profound, humble people have been spiritual ones

`Tis true, and I can name hundreds.

g

[BobRyan]

And if you can show a single line in the over 400 posts in this thread where I have said my leaving the church is 'someone else's fault', I will eat my hat. *And* retract, withdraw and apologise for the above post.

Agreed.

Your primary statements have simply been to observe that your beliefs (as listed) are clearly not the beliefs listed for the Seventh-day Adventist church.

Your conclusion is valid in that regard.

in Christ,

Bob

[olger]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

The one I testify against the most is the saved in sin theology that says we can't quit sinning so Christ has to do it all for us, that is it in a nutshell.

Jesus Christ does do it all!

He can't get a knowledge of Himself, for you. All He can do is offer us the knowledge and we have to take deliberate steps to accept it.

rejoice always,

g

[BobRyan]

I'm getting involved sort of late in this thread, and having recently attended a baptism and viewed the list of "do you's and will you's" that took place B4 the getting wet part, I am not sure I would be able to say "I do or I will." My picture of God has changed so very much over the years that I and a few of my like minded friends have come close to being "churched" for our presentation of a friendly God.

I like the God I have now much better then the one I grew up with as a child in the church.

If you read through the list of SDA beliefs - and decide that you do not agree with them - then clearly you are not at the point of joining the church.

The "everlasting Gospel" preached in Rev 14:6-7 is not always well received.

The 3 angels messages of Rev 14:6-12 - likewise has not that popular even among Christians.

I think we can all agree to that much.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

I just find it curious that EGW quotes are used so much when talking to non Adventists.

Here?

Or in your church?

in Christ,

Bob

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

I just find it curious that EGW quotes are used so much when talking to non Adventists.

Here?

Or in your church?

in Christ,

Bob

As I am one of those non SDA's I am referring to here

[Stan]

A Question for Bravus...

In my early years, I really did not care which denomination I landed, or did not land in any denomination. It still is not life or death for me. The Bible text you linked to are nothing new, and I worked through most of them before I joined. I rambled sorry.. back to what I was joining to say, (When I visited adventist Church I thought SDA's were to most socially dysfunctional people I had ever met) back to the question again...

Here it is.

Where else can you go to?

[Stan]

that was a struggle I had when joining.... where else could I do?

When I spoke with local Church leaders, they would tell me not to look at the people, but look to Jesus.

Well that is amount the stupidest thing I ever heard. A cop out for their lack of leadership. YOu can tell them by their fruits. right? They were fruity.

[Dr. Shane]

1. Origins

I read the creation story as a poetic account of who and why. It is not the Bible I put aside - not at all - it is a particular approach to reading the Bible.

2. Homosexuality

There are not a large number of texts on the topic, and almost all of them relate to things other than committed relationships. Things like temple prostitution. The Biblical case that homosexual relationships are wrong is not strong. The Biblical case that marriage is sacred is much stronger... and should be extended to everyone. The Biblical case against sex outside marriage is strong, so forbidding marriage to homosexual people forbids sex to them for life. But "it is better to marry than to burn".

6. Ellen White

She just does say some things that contradict Scripture. People can do whatever rhetorical dances they like, but that's a fact. If she's a lesser light to point to a greater light, we shouldn't be shy of acknowledging when occasionally she points away from it. The quote in the 'Does prayer work?' thread in the 'Matter of Prayer' forum is a prime example.

I think as long as you kept these positions to yourself (not denied them), if asked humbly express that you disagree with but respect those that accept the church's position, you could get along quite well in the Adventist church. That is the tactic I use with my position on jewelry. Of course, you can choose to leave the church but you certainly shouldn't feel that you were pushed out or that you can't come back. ...and it sounds like you know that.

[BobRyan]

1. Origins

I read the creation story as a poetic account of who and why. It is not the Bible I put aside - not at all - it is a particular approach to reading the Bible.

2. Homosexuality

There are not a large number of texts on the topic, and almost all of them relate to things other than committed relationships. Things like temple prostitution. The Biblical case that homosexual relationships are wrong is not strong. The Biblical case that marriage is sacred is much stronger... and should be extended to everyone. The Biblical case against sex outside marriage is strong, so forbidding marriage to homosexual people forbids sex to them for life. But "it is better to marry than to burn".

6. Ellen White

She just does say some things that contradict Scripture. People can do whatever rhetorical dances they like, but that's a fact. If she's a lesser light to point to a greater light, we shouldn't be shy of acknowledging when occasionally she points away from it. The quote in the 'Does prayer work?' thread in the 'Matter of Prayer' forum is a prime example.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

I just find it curious that EGW quotes are used so much when talking to non Adventists.

Here?

Or in your church?

in Christ,

Bob

[ClubV12]

When I first joined the church I looked to the people a lot. We should never discount our impact on others in that regard. At some point, I made a change to start looking at the counsel of the bible and the Spirit of Prophecy for what was and wasn't acceptable for my life style. Thats when, "Look to Jesus" made sense.

I won't hesitate or make an apology for quoting Sister White on this web site, as often as necessary and for every occasion. Those that don't accept her counsel, generally don't accept the bibles counsel either, so it makes no difference around here.

Emptycross, you reject the 10 commandments in favor of some other honor system. Why would you care who quotes what from what ever source?

[Stan]

There are really two types of people in the world. The non-religious, and simpletons...

So you are calling most folks here simpletons?

[Dr. Shane]

Just for the record, Stan. I wish I was a lot more simple. It seems the simpler I can be the happier I am.

[M. T. Cross]

When I first joined the church I looked to the people a lot. We should never discount our impact on others in that regard. At some point, I made a change to start looking at the counsel of the bible and the Spirit of Prophecy for what was and wasn't acceptable for my life style. Thats when, "Look to Jesus" made sense.

I won't hesitate or make an apology for quoting Sister White on this web site, as often as necessary and for every occasion. Those that don't accept her counsel, generally don't accept the bibles counsel either, so it makes no difference around here.

Emptycross, you reject the 10 commandments in favor of some other honor system. Why would you care who quotes what from what ever source?

Hmmmm....... I ask myself do I waste my time answering when I know half of what I say will be ignonred and the other half twisted to say something I did not say..........

Oh I'll bite.

You make a huge assumption to say I have rejected the 10 commandments in favour of anything at all. If you can find anywhere at all that I have ever said that I will take it all back. But I didn't. I said that I find the Nine Noble Virtues of another religion valuable virtues that I think everyone - christian, athiest, agnostic, heathen, pagan, buddhist, hindu, sheik, muslim, kemetic, hellenic, new ager etc should live by. Basic rules to being a good person that I choose to raise my children with. I invited you start a discourse where we examined whether or not all of those values could be found within the 10 commandments. In a different thread. I did so in an effort to extend an olive branch to you as it is apparent to anyone that has read any exchange between you and I that we do not like each other much. You of course ignored taht offer and began to ramble on within that thread some total non answer to the suggestion. Now you come here making more assumptions.

As far as EGW - quote whatever you want to quote. I am simply pointing out the oddness of quoting EGW when trying to convince a non SDA that they are wrong. Its like going to war with a cap gun. Its not effective. Since I know how much converting all us lost souls means to the SDA church, I was simply pointing out a more effective, in my opinion, approach.

I agree taht quoting EGW on an Adventist site makes sense, I just find it profoundly odd when it is done in the context of trying to convince people that have left the Church or are just showing an intrest in it that they are wrong in their beliefs about the Bible. I often see it used in the same context as "we are a bible believing church and the bible truth is our guide". Why not just use the Bible and your extended understanding of it then?

[John317]

I just find it curious that EGW quotes are used so much when talking to non Adventists. As examples of how we should view truths. If it was me and I was trying to convince people that it was a church of Biblical truths I would stick just with the Bible, once you have convinced them of that then move on to convincing them that this woman was indeed a prophet.

I agree. I never use EGW when talking with non-SDAs-- that is, unless they are the first to either quote her or ask questions about her. The reason is that she is not any kind of authority to them. She herself supported this position.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

I just find it curious that EGW quotes are used so much when talking to non Adventists. As examples of how we should view truths. If it was me and I was trying to convince people that it was a church of Biblical truths I would stick just with the Bible, once you have convinced them of that then move on to convincing them that this woman was indeed a prophet.

I agree. I never use EGW when talking with non-SDAs-- that is, unless they are the first to either quote her or ask questions about her. The reason is that she is not any kind of authority to them. She herself supported this position.

And I for one appreciate that John, I have duly noted that you pull out Bible verse after Bible verse to prove your point. I don't always agree with your take on them but thats not the point. You are using the Bible to prove your Bible believing point. Makes total sense.

[John317]

Co-Aspen, do you believe that the practice of homosexuality and adultery is sinful?

1 Tim. 1:8-10

Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, [9] understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, [10] the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,

1 Cor. 6:9-11

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [10] nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

[John317]

:-)

[John317]

What i get from everything Bravus has said in this thread is that he can't continue to be a member of an organization that bases its whole system of belief on a book he does not feel to be more than a moral guideline.

Simply put it would be dishonest of him to be a part of that church and to hide his true beliefs. I applaud his desire to be honest.

I agree, and I would hope everybody would be equally honest, if they can't sincerely support what the church believes and teaches.