Deliverance

[Inga]

Dear Nico,

Quote:

---

I was not aware my previous posts were being regarded as mere histrionics

---

Please forgive me for leaving so much room for misunderstanding. No, I did not regard your previous posts as "mere histrionics," but I think you'd probably admit yourself that you have a real flair for histrionics. There's no "mere" about it.

Quote:

---

What is really upsetting for me is what I encounter when I try to pray sometimes. I don't know if it is God, Satan, or my own sick mind, but whatever it is, it frightens and upsets me terribly. It is something that starts off acting like God but then it changes on me. Now, I know they say Satan can't read our minds so that would mean he can't have "telepathic" (silent) conversations with us imitating God, right? So that means either this twisted creature IS God, talking to me, isolating me, or it is some projection of my own sick mind and I can't shut it off. I guess the latter proposition is less upsetting than the former but it makes it terribly hard to know whether I'm engaging in a season of fruitful self-examination and repentance or some bizarre, esoteric form of self-torture. I wish I could reproduce these "conversations" so I would not be isolated in them, so someone else would see and know what is going on and understand why I find it so frightening and upsetting, maybe even help me sort it out, but it only takes place deep inside me and I can't get it "out" to show it to anyone in terms of the specifics involved.

I was isolated like this in my head and kept up till past 2 a.m. last night unable to sleep. It would shift in and out from being the God I know (or at least the One I believe in) to being this weird, petty, vain, twisted being, and then I would come out of it and it would be God again, or just my own thoughts (my normal thoughts not this other being inside them). This is so hard to describe so as to enable anyone else to understand it that I don't know what to do. I want to be able to sleep without being tormented. If God is really weeding my garden then I want to be open to that because I know even if it hurts during the process there will be peace and freedom in the end, but I get confused when the "gardener" stops acting like the loving Holy Spirit and starts acting like this other bizarre being. (Am I making ANY sense???)

---

You're making lots of sense, Nico. The only thing I can be sure of at this distance is that what you experience doesn't sound like anything God would do to you. The Holy Spirit does come to convict of sin, among other things, and that leaves you with the conviction that you need to change something. It will always be something you can *do,* with His help, though you may not like to do it. What you describe sounds nothing like that.

You've covered the other options too, and it could be either of the other two. While Satan cannot read your thoughts, I suspect he can guess *very* well. Just like he can bring temptations to our minds, so I'm sure he can insert thoughts/words that interfere with our prayers. I hesitate to make any recommendations here because I have no way of knowing what's actually going on.

I can make a suggestion based on my own experience. When I was at my wits' end in my own life and my marriage, I went to God and said, "I give up... I can only throw myself on your mercy, Father. If there's anything in my life that needs changing, please show me!"

It was as if God answered, "Now *there's* a prayer I can answer!" So He showed me! And it wasn't a pretty picture, because He showed me how utterly self-centered and selfish I was. There was *nothing* in me at all deserving of His grace (and there still isn't) ... And, yes, with time, He showed me some specifics too. If you can entertain the possibility that there's still something in your life that allows the devil some kind of claim on you, take it to God in the same manner, and ask Him to show you what it is and then ask Him for the strength to give it up, whatever it is ...

Quote:

---

All I know is I want to be able to sleep normally

---

[This is written *after* the rest of the note... kind of a P.S. but it fit in here.] H'mm ... another very practical suggestion occurs to me. Dickens was very aware of the possibility, as it is mentioned in *A Christmas Carol,* if I remember correctly. When you go to bed and try to sleep with undigested food in your stomach, it can make for an uneasy sleep, and there's no accounting for *what* our mind can do to us when not under our conscious control. Neither God nor the devil needs to have anything to do with it. While we normally do not remember dreams, if we do not sleep soundly, the kind of mental torture you share can happen. [This may not be applicable to your current problem, but it works just as I am sharing here ...]

I know *I* do not sleep well if I eat too close to bed time. While you may not have changed your habits since you were younger, your body may very well have changed on you. If this *does* seem to apply, try to make sure that nothing except water, or possibly some warm milk or herbal "sleepy-time" tea (*no* coffee, soft drinks, or green or black tea) enters your mouth for four hours before bed time.

Quote:

---

and I want to be able to pray normally and I want to be called to prayer by the Holy Spirit and able to know what to pray and how. And I want to experience (see how well she has learned NOT to use the word "feel" in order to avoid automatic invalidations from the left-brain church)

---

Yes, many of us tend to be left-brained, and we need to be reminded that a relationship with God is more than intellectual assent. It involves the *whole* being, including our emotions.

Quote:

---

the Holy Spirit activating me and bringing me into the mind where I eagerly want to devour scripture and be in prayer like things used to be. Because when I try to go on my own steam I just can't connect at all, it's all empty.

---

What do you mean by going on your own steam?

While a relationship with God involves our emotions, that's not *all* it is. Sometimes I may not "feel" like studying the Bible, but when I make the time and *ask* that He speak to me through it, I find that He does. It's a like any other relationship: We don't always *feel* "in love" or really excited about the relationship, but we do loving and responsible things because we've made a commitment. Feeling often follows action, rather than the other way around.

Does that make any sense to you?

I know that what you describe is the ideal. It's the "first-love" experience. Perhaps now, though, you need to settle into the "working love" -- the kind that works on principle, rather than feeling. (I'm *not* knocking feeling. As I said, I find it *follows* action. I found that even worked in my marriage when the feeling was gone. I started to *do* the loving things again, and my feelings followed. It works that way with God too. Just do hang in there!)

Quote:

---

Or else I get this big torture session like I described, that's even worse.

---

I'm convinced that *that* is something the Lord doesn't want you to continue to go through!

I will be praying for you.

In His love,

Inga

[Jeannieb43]

Dear, dear Nico,

I just found this thread and have read it all through just now. I'm praying for your peace of mind, and for your strength to withstand this mental intrusion.

My only contribution has to be from what my DH (a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who was also a deeply spiritual Christian) explained to me about this type of mental disturbance. We saw the movie "A Beautiful Mind," and DH told me that that movie was a perfect portrayal of hallucinations. Sometimes the hallucinations are visual, sometimes auditory, and sometimes only mental. But they are perceived as authentic. Here's where I think your "telepathic conversations with Satan" may be coming from: your chemical imbalance. It's definitely not God who's tormenting you thus; and (as we've been taught), Satan can't read minds [though he's an expert at reading our body language, so he really does understand what we're thinking more than we may realize].

So if you can, with the help of your pdoc and your meds, can you just resolve not to pay any attention to those demons within you -- because, you can remind yourself constantly, they are not real. They truly don't exist. They're a figment of mental wanderings.

I know it's possible to make up one's mind to disregard those things, because John Nash himself was able to do that. DH told me he has studied the John Nash case, and that very few people (Nash is the only one DH knew of) are able to disregard their demons without the help of medication. But Nash did it. He constantly told himself the hallucinations were not real, and he was by sheer exercise of will, able to live above those hallucinations. Then as he got older, the hallucinations became less frequent. [i'm not suggesting you go without your meds--far from it! Only that perhaps this may help, as an ancillary approach, along with your meds.]

I'd be happy to PM you with this info, rather than post it, but I can't access your PM. But there's nothing here to be ashamed of. In fact, I'm constantly amazed at your genius [John Nash too was a mental genius]. So there's plenty there for you to work with, even after you disregard what you know to be false.... just don't give up!

Everybody here admires you. Hugs and Christian love.

[Nicodema]

Well I can do that -- say short, simple prayers for someone else on the spur of the moment. It's only if I attempt to spend any real quality time with God personally that things go "south" really fast. In two different ways, either the torture I tried to describe or just a complete empty disconnected place where I may as well be alone in an empty room talking to myself. Or worse, because at least if that were the case *I* would be there to listen; there is NO ONE there to listen when that happens.

I went to a seminar about prayer this past weekend (Friday evening and Sabbath) at a local church. It was held by Ron Halverson. One of the things he quoted really spoke to me. It was, "Unbelievers don't pray because they are afraid God will really be there; believers don't pray because they are afraid God will really NOT be there." I fall into the latter category. I try to pray but it's like God just isn't there, isn't real, and I hate coming up against that, so it develops an aversion reaction inside me and makes it harder and harder for me to try to spend time in prayer or to focus on anything at all when I do try to pray.

Then with everything so empty and disconnected, my own attempts to pray just sound ludicrous to myself, so superstitious, so drippy and "religiony" like I'm some backwater uneducated hick in a mountain folk cargo cult. Even the things they tell us we should pray sound like superstition to me, like "pleading the blood of Christ" and "praying the armor of God." (Although I have to say one good thing about such things is they give me something to focus on when I'm trying to pray and my mind is flying off in 13,000 different directions at once. The Psalms are even better in this regard.) I feel like I'm under heavy-duty satanic attack and then even that sounds ridiculous to me, like "histrionics" as Inga put it. And I'm hideously self-conscious about all of this because we live in a world where people automatically attribute deliberation to one's thoughts or emotions. It's like you're supposed to be accountable for what you think and feel, or like what you think and feel is supposed to "define who you are" to others. So if I think about how superstitious this or that sounds, someone is bound to think that I really think that, as in, I really hold that view. When in reality, what is going on is that I have no control over my own mind or where it goes or how it feels or thinks, and it travels in areas I would not necessarily choose, and I have NO CONTROL OVER THAT. So it does NOT mean that I'm secretly sitting here pooh-poohing religion. It means I can't HELP how I feel at times or how things "feel to" me, and that's just one example. I'm NOT accountable for this because it is NOT MY CHOICE and it is NOT MY FAULT. It's just what goes on that I'm forced to endure and I don't know why. I'm tired of trying to figure out why.

I am learning at this point in my life that a lot depends upon asking the right question(s). Previously I have asked the wrong question(s), such as, "why must it be like this?" and "why am I this way?" Now my question is simply, "what can I do to put an end to this?" and "how can I stop being this way and be some way else?" I hate, hate, HATE posting all this here. Do you have any idea how much I despise it, how much it sickens me that while REAL people are dealing with REAL problems and REAL needs, like sickness and degenerative conditions and injuries and death and pain, here I am spinning my wheels in complete desperation over this stuff that people who don't experience it would just dismiss with a backhanded wave as a lot of nonsense that I need not concern myself with? That's easy to say if you're not experiencing it. (Note, I don't think anyone here is being dismissive toward me; this is just how my mind envisions "people" [in general] to be thinking. It's a projection of self-consciousness as other-consciousness, I guess.) I don't WANT to be experiencing it. I *HATE* IT. I hate all this insanity or demonic attention or whatever it actually is, in truth (and I don't care so much about the diagnosis so long as it leads to a cure). I want to be connected with reality, have a mind that is sane and works properly to discern truth from error, right from wrong, and reality from fantasy and most of all is connected with God. Oh yes, and has some privacy and boundaries too, like regular people have, instead of feeling that every flaw, failing and shortcoming of my life and being is laid open to every curious eye that passes by.

Thanks for putting up with me, letting me express these things. I'm open to any practical solutions, that is, that are of such type that I'm able to implement (e.g., I can't take much exercise right now with the condition my back is in, for example, so rigorous physical activity, regardless of its benefits, is not really a viable option right now).

I will continue to pray for others immediately and on the spot when they post requests, because I cannot trust myself to remember to do so later or more eloquently. I'm not doing it to be showy. I'm doing it so they will at least have A prayer from me, even if it's short. It's mainly because I am having such a hard time praying at all, if I don't do it quick at that exact moment, it won't be done.

[Gail]

N, as I was reading your last post, something else came to my mind... I'm not sure if you will find this helpful in your situation or not

What helps me when my mind is full of thoughts is to think on Jesus- just one aspect of His life. Give your own thoughts a timeout, and focus on Him and lose yourself in that view of Him

Sometimes I flip through my Bible, and sometimes I choose something written about Jesus such as the Desire of Ages or Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing. It's different each time. But it helps to take a break and look at a change of scenery

When I do this, then a prayer will come to me, a response to the picture of Jesus that I have at the moment

Does this make sense?

Praying for you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Nicodema]

Quote:

---

Please forgive me for leaving so much room for misunderstanding. No, I did not regard your previous posts as "mere histrionics," but I think you'd probably admit yourself that you have a real flair for histrionics. There's no "mere" about it.

---

Thank you for leaving no room for misunderstanding, Inga. I regret to inform you that I cannot admit to anything that is not the truth about me, and this is not the truth. It may be your opinion, whether past or present, but it does not constitute a factual representation of my person. I am sorry to hear you held such a belittling and invalidating opinion of me, and I am sorry to find you seem to think it important to encourage me, at this vulnerable time and place in which I find myself, to adopt it as my own. I need you to know that I have no intention of so doing, and that I would prefer it if, in the future, you avoid such a course with me.

That being said, I shall endeavor to respond to the rest of your post as though this unfortunate exchange had not transpired.

Quote:

---

I can make a suggestion based on my own experience. When I was at my wits' end in my own life and my marriage, I went to God and said, "I give up... I can only throw myself on your mercy, Father. If there's anything in my life that needs changing, please show me!"

---

I have prayed this and continue to pray this when I feel "at my wits end". So far I am not receiving any concrete answers. I don't believe by any stretch of the imagination this means there is nothing that needs changing in me!! Far from it!!! What concerns me is that it may mean I am regarded as past the point of being able to be changed, which basically spells my doom and causes a massive downward spiral spiritually and emotionally for me. With that going on, as you can imagine, praying becomes rather cyclical for me, bouncing from "show me what needs to change/what I should do" to trying to repent of anything that comes to my mind to feeling my repentance isn't sincere or accepted (because it does not result in experiencing connection with God and freedom from the torment), to asking God to give me repentance, etc. etc. It all tends to run in convoluted loops like that, going nowhere really fast.

Quote:

---

If you can entertain the possibility that there's still something in your life that allows the devil some kind of claim on you, take it to God in the same manner, and ask Him to show you what it is and then ask Him for the strength to give it up, whatever it is ...

---

If I could be certain of God's voice directing me, and not merely my own superstitions, I would stand on my head and spin like a top while burning books like a Nazi and crusading for the unborn if it meant being free from this torture. But it would have to be God telling me what to do, not superstition, not the voice of fear and "what if" and "maybe". And it would have to be REAL freedom, not "the next time you accidentally have a wrong thought it's all over, no more freedom!" kind of deal (been there, done that, had plenty of those, no thanks no how NO WAY. A "freedom" that I have to manufacture for myself by pretending is hollow and fragile and empty as what I am already experiencing, if not moreso. It either comes from God and is real, permanent, and lasting, or it is not good enough because truly, you cannot begin to understand how important it is for me, as a former occultist, to NOT have to have things subject to MY mind and MY will and MY ability to "hack reality to my own taste". Had enough of that.

Quote:

---

... another very practical suggestion occurs to me. Dickens was very aware of the possibility, as it is mentioned in *A Christmas Carol,* if I remember correctly.

When you go to bed and try to sleep with undigested food in your stomach, it can make for an uneasy sleep, and there's no accounting for *what* our mind can do to us when not under our conscious control.

---

This isn't an issue for me. I generally take my final meal early in the evening, around 5 p.m. If anything my stomach tends to be empty more times than not when I retire.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

the Holy Spirit activating me and bringing me into the mind where I eagerly want to devour scripture and be in prayer like things used to be. Because when I try to go on my own steam I just can't connect at all, it's all empty.

---

What do you mean by going on your own steam?

---

Trying to pray or read Scripture because I think to myself, "I should pray (or read Scripture), because that's how I can get closer to God, get to know Him better, that's what I should be doing." On my own steam means basically doing it because I am thinking it is something that should be done, that I should be doing, and trying to, not because the Holy Spirit is active inside me creating the heartfelt yearning for it.

Quote:

---

It's a like any other relationship: We don't always *feel* "in love" or really excited about the relationship, but we do loving and responsible things because we've made a commitment. Feeling often follows action, rather than the other way around.

Does that make any sense to you?

---

Yes, but at the risk of being infuriating (which I genuinely do not intend to be, only honest), it simply does not apply to this situation. First, it's not a matter of feelings to begin with. I'm not contrasting feeling with action, I'm contrasting the Holy Spirit's activity with my own steam. Second, I'm aware of doing things out of responsibility and commitment -- an example would be rubbing my mate's feet or back when I don't "feel like it" simply because I love him and he needs me to do that to relieve him of pain or discomfort. Or taking time to listen or talk when I'm not in the mood because he needs me to be there for him in that moment. The thing is, I CAN do those things, because the "other" is RIGHT THERE to do them WITH. I don't have to try to imagine him there in his absence. I can't describe perfectly the difference but it's different with God. Because He is invisible I have to have Him present and connecting with me to be able to do those things that are part of that relationship. If He is absent there is no motivation, and even if I try to manufacture that motivation I cannot make myself do it no matter how I try. My mind goes in a zillion directions and I end up tortured or empty when I try to pray. I can't focus or concentrate when I try to read scripture. When the Spirit is active in me I don't have those problems, because it is the Spirit within me reaching to connect with the rest of the Godhead, and fusing me into that connection. We might have to chalk this up to a theological difference between us, Inga, because it's not a feeling vs. commitment issue. It has to do with how I understand the agency of the Holy Spirit based on both study AND personal experience.

Quote:

---

I know that what you describe is the ideal. It's the "first-love" experience. Perhaps now, though, you need to settle into the "working love" -- the kind that works on principle, rather than feeling. (I'm *not* knocking feeling. As I said, I find it *follows* action. I found that even worked in my marriage when the feeling was gone. I started to *do* the loving things again, and my feelings followed. It works that way with God too. Just do hang in there!)

---

The thing is -- to continue with my comparison above to rubbing my mate's feet or listening to him -- it requires nothing of me but the will to do so to do those things. He is there talking -- so I don't have to try to imagine the voice of someone absent. His feet are right there sore, ready to be relieved, it does not require concentration I do not have to rub them and relieve his discomfort. Prayer and scripture reading both require types of focus and concentration I am not able to produce in myself in order to be fruitful or hey, for that matter, to even just be *continued* for longer than five minutes, fruitful or not! When I can't make sense out of words on the page, I quickly cease reading. When I read the same sentence 50 times and still can't get past it, I cease reading. When I find myself praying empty, repetitive prayers with no relief from the condition causing them to be empty in the first place, I cannot continue. I don't feel a pressing need to TELL God everything on my heart because He already knows. In fact, He knows better than me. And finally ... when I spend time with my mate there isn't some monster dressed like him ready to sneak in there and substitute for him instead, in order to gain access to my mind and torture me through my own thoughts. Again, I don't care if this "monster" is (a) demon(s) or some twisted, messed up thing in my head -- whatever it is, I don't just want it gone, I NEED it gone. Because I'm only a programmable human being like everyone else, and this thing is programming aversion into me faster than Pavlov made his dogs salivate at the sound of a bell.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Or else I get this big torture session like I described, that's even worse.

---

I'm convinced that *that* is something the Lord doesn't want you to continue to go through!

---

Good, then, here is one thing we can all agree upon in prayer, pray that the Lord will put an end to this thing. Regardless of whatever anyone may think about me personally. That's good enough for me.

[Clio]

Nico,

I continue to lift you in prayer.

Clio

[Nicodema]

Quote:

---

I just found this thread and have read it all through just now. I'm praying for your peace of mind, and for your strength to withstand this mental intrusion.

---

Thank you.

Quote:

---

My only contribution has to be from what my DH (a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who was also a deeply spiritual Christian) explained to me about this type of mental disturbance. We saw the movie "A Beautiful Mind," and DH told me that that movie was a perfect portrayal of hallucinations. Sometimes the hallucinations are visual, sometimes auditory, and sometimes only mental. But they are perceived as authentic. Here's where I think your "telepathic conversations with Satan" may be coming from: your chemical imbalance.

---

You may be right about that. Like I said, I don't care whether it turns out in the end it was mental illness, "chemical imbalance" or demons, so long as it comes to an end. I saw the movie you mention, by the way. Frankly I don't know which is harder, to train the mind to grasp that a full blown visual hallucination (like Nash's imaginary friends) is not real or to train the mind to grasp perfectly viable *concepts* as being unreal. I would think the hallucinations would be easier; you simply learn Person X and Person Y don't actually exist and that's that. Far easier than parsing what I'm trying to parse. But maybe I can only say that because I don't experience what John Nash experienced. I do know the movie made it seem way too easy to do this which is detrimental to understanding the whole thing for those who don't experience it who already have an air of unfamiliarity and unreality about it when they think of someone else experiencing it, they can't relate.

Quote:

---

So if you can, with the help of your pdoc and your meds, can you just resolve not to pay any attention to those demons within you -- because, you can remind yourself constantly, they are not real. They truly don't exist. They're a figment of mental wanderings.

---

The problem is, I don't KNOW what is real and what is not. I have no objective measure by which to tell which of these thoughts or voices is real and which is not, and because it takes the form of a "conversation" inside I have to follow the conversation out to get to the "punch line" so to speak -- to that definitive moment where it touches a nerve positively or negatively, where I conclude I've been talking with God or where it becomes apparent that whatever the thing is, it certainly cannot be God =-- and by then the damage has been done, because it has consumed my time and sent me into emotional upheaval.

That's just the tip of the iceberg -- I haven't bothered to mention all the free-floating terror ("anxiety" is not a strong enough word for this), intrusive images, random stuff that I can't just wave a magic wand and have it disappear. Believe me if I could, I would. I DON'T LIKE IT. I DON'T WANT IT.

Quote:

---

Everybody here admires you. Hugs and Christian love.

---

Thanks for your very kind words, Jeannie. I'm perfectly safe to admire because I'm completely incapable of perceiving it or believing it, so you can do so knowing you'll never give me a swelled up head over it.

[Jeannieb43]

[chuckle] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Yes, Nico, you certainly are "safe to admire!" You're a true icon.

You can know we're here for you.

And God is right there beside you, too.

[Nicodema]

Not good. I'm having way more problems than just the mental issues, I just haven't gone into the whole catalog of ills I'm suffering right now here on the board -- mental, physical, financial -- I'm sure it all could be worse but right now what I'm dealing with is terrifying and more than I can handle. If I thought there was any reason for warranting such a concept, I'd think every devil of hell had been let loose to vex me personally. However, I'm just not that important in the overall scheme of things (I realize that now) so there's no sense indulging paranoia on top of everything else.

I appreciate the prayers though. Please keep 'em coming.

[Restin]

I'm joining with Gail in this prayer. I have tears in my eyes. I know it doesn't help much to talk of others experience, Nico, but I had a mental illness too... many times in the hospital and ruined my whole life, career, and marriage...many therapists and meds. And seemed the sky was solid lead and prayers never heard. Your post could have been written by me, in despair, and pain just going on and on. But if it's any help at all, I did partner with God, He did gradually become larger and real in the core of me where it was either empty or tumultuous. I got over my mental agony. I'm praying for God to draw closer to you, and you to Him, Nicodema. I know The Answer is there, but i just don't know exactly how to say it that makes sense to you, yourself.

[Restin]

Sheesh, Nico, I remember when the church members would give me that little sermon that there must be some besetting sin i was clinging to that was the reason God couldn't heal my mental illness. I recall how escalating the terror was, when I heard that said to me...for there is always the chance, the probability even, that some sin lurks there in the preconscious or unconcious that is a "reason" why God stays away. Especially in someone like myself who had a sordid past and abundant energy to go out and do all kinds of mischief and rebellion. Speak of suicidal! Here I am already tortured by some nameless terror/horror... maybe terror of guilt for any of a thousand things. And I'm now admonished to search through my long list and dig up which one is offending God so badly he won't speak to me. It would throw me right over the edge, for another two weeks in the hospital,really.

So, Nicodema, don't listen to that about clinging to sin. Please don't. I know for a fact that whatever my sins were, current or past, God had to come to me regardless, or I would not have the good health I enjoy now. Nicodema, your genuine desire to have God's help is what counts, and sometimes the best prayer you can say is "Lord, I'm willing to be made willing". That's good enoughfor God. Sending you on a guilt trip won't do a thing for you or for God.

I don't mean to be so critical of anyone on the forum trying to give Nico advice, but I've always wished I could tell others what advice really sets someone back instead of helping them forward when it comes to mental illness. And that about "clinging to sin" is one of them. BTW, Nicodema, I have put a message in your private message box that may be of help in some way.

[Nicodema]

Quote:

---

I recall how escalating the terror was, when I heard that said to me...for there is always the chance, the probability even, that some sin lurks there in the preconscious or unconcious that is a "reason" why God stays away. Especially in someone like myself who had a sordid past and abundant energy to go out and do all kinds of mischief and rebellion. Speak of suicidal! Here I am already tortured by some nameless terror/horror... maybe terror of guilt for any of a thousand things. And I'm now admonished to search through my long list and dig up which one is offending God so badly he won't speak to me. It would throw me right over the edge, for another two weeks in the hospital,really.

---

Amen, amen, and amen to that. Thank you.

Quote:

---

... I've always wished I could tell others what advice really sets someone back instead of helping them forward when it comes to mental illness. And that about "clinging to sin" is one of them.

---

I'll be blunt -- things like that make me want to bash someone over the head and tell them off big time. I wish everyone who tried to slip in yet another guilt missile to a vulnerable, tortured soul (mine or anyone else's like it) would have to endure for just ONE HOUR what I have to live with EVERY DAY. It would be enough to shut them the #@#&$* up for sure.

[Clio]

Quote:

---

If I thought there was any reason for warranting such a concept, I'd think every devil of hell had been let loose to vex me personally. ....

I appreciate the prayers though. Please keep 'em coming.

---

Actually, Nico, you might be right, not in a personal sense, but in a changing times sense.

I know for fact that the releasing has begun. The lower entities are being released to work upon the earth in ways they have not been permitted since the great ones were bound under the river Euphrates. I have been assured the time of the unbinding is not yet, but the releasing has begun.

Just as there was a remarkable uptick in demonic activity when Jesus came in the flesh the first time, so is there a marked uptick as His glorious Second Coming in the flesh approaches with great speed.

Clio

[Nicodema]

I don't want to have anything to do with demonic activity! I don't want to be a barometric reading of demonic pressure in the atmosphere, even! I want them to leave me alone!!!!!!! I'm nothing!! I'm nobody!!! I'm NOT important in the grand scheme of things!! Why can't they just LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!!????? Or maybe they aren't the problem. Maybe all this pain and fear and panic and terror is just my own, my own private hell from my own sick mind. I don't know and I don't care, I just want out! OUT!

[Clio]

(((((Nico)))) Wear the armor hon. Pray it in disbelief if you have to, but I promise Nico. His Word is sure, and you will receive relief.

Clio

[Nicodema]

I have another request for prayer. They lied to me when I went into the hospital, I told them I had no insurance and no job and thus no way to pay and the doctor admitting me assured me I would not have to pay, that they would work it out. Well they lied and now I'm getting all these bills for thousands of dollars I don't have any way of paying. I am trying to find work but have not found anything yet and I don't know if I ever will find anything. I am terrified of ending up homeless and on the street because money people have no compassion all they care about is getting their money. They will destroy people's lives over it. I can't bear the stress of all this right now with my mental health as bad as it is already. Please someone pray that God will help me find a permanent full time job so I can pay these bills off. It's more than just the medical, I'm having to pay these fees so they won't put a lien on the house, I owed $1000 in taxes even though, yes, I was unemployed most of last year -- it's like all hell is breaking loose on me at once. I am all alone, nobody has to care about this at all but me, I have no one to go to. My mate is trying to help me but he's not a bank and he gets upset and angry about this stuff which just increases the stress for me, I don't like to bother him with these problems. I don't see any way out right now and this is causing me just as much despair and anguish as my spiritual problems. I don't have the energy to fight both at once.

[Parade Orange]

im praying for u

[Restin]

I saw in your profile you went to CUC, so assume youre still in the USA. I would suggest, about the hospital bills, to take them to your county's "Department of Children and Families". if you havn't tried it already. If you qualify financially, much of your hospital bill will be cut. Sure is a bummer to be sick and out of work, and the heartless hospital socks it to you with the bills. Not your fault, believe me. Something must be done by the gov. When you feel better, it helps to find out just what they can and can't do about the bills. I had so many I just got used to the fact medical bills are the lot of every human being nowadays, and I just send them what I can each month, and they havn't bothered me as long as i sent something or other. I wouldn't feel a bit ashamed to go get food stamps, either, in such a situation.

[Clio]

Nico, sweetie... I can even offer you hope in this. I have walked that path for the last 16 months.

We racked up over $265,000 in medical bills. Yes, I had insurance, but only after the first $5600 and then we still owed 20%. And much of the prescription meds weren't well covered. Just in the last 16 months.

Here's what you do... Go to the state offices and ask about the various programs they have. Then find out about local resources like Love INC. Here they have folks who help with utilities, prescriptions, food boxes, even car repair.

You may be able to qualify sufficiently with the state where they will pay unpaid medical bills back 90 days from the date of application for medicaid. Talk to your church if you have a regular one. The larger church in this area has a fund especially to help in situations like this. Talk to the Salvation Army. They have rental/mortgage assistance program that is not economically based.

And pray lots. Jesus will make sure you have enough. Yes, of course all hell is breaking loose. You are rejecting it in a meaningful way, and they know Jesus is going to set you free. All the captives, all healed, all restored.

They've met Jesus before when He sends me to someone. You are going to be attacked unmercifully, because they KNOW even if they have you buffaloed, that Jesus wants you back... and if they can keep you from doing your part, and from choosing Jesus every time, even when it seems impossible, and if they can keep you believing their lies and focussed on stuff like this... you might give up.

They know you are a chosen one of the Lamb who takes away all sin. If you weren't, the darkside wouldn't care.

Focus on Jesus Nico... Ask for His provision. It doesn't have to be a job... He has other ways of meeting your needs. The very storehouses of heaven belong to Him. Tell Him your needs, and trust Him to meet them. Ask for financial blessings, and don't put Him in the box of "I need a job".

Maybe His plan doesn't include a job for you right now... and if not... He will fund your life another way... He always does.

Clio

[Nicodema]

Times like these I am grateful for the wisdom of the Samaritan woman: "Even the dogs get to eat the scraps that fall from the Master's table." If I am not entitled to the Children's food, I am at least entitled to the scraps that fall from the table. I say this because I find it impossible, or nearly impossible, to pray and ask for things from God. I feel that I am unworthy to ask, that I do not deserve His help, and it just chokes me off before I can so much as make a prayer. I have nothing eloquent to say, just please God help me. I need Your help. I am drowning in these bills and too overwhelmed to jump through all the hoops required for assistance and too frightened of people to expose myself to all these strangers and I just need Your help, please provide for me. I have no one else to turn to, and I confess I don't even have any faith to impress You with. I have nothing to recommend myself to You or to attract Your attention or sympathy. I can only ask for Jesus' sake because He died for me that You will take pity on my needs and answer me with help. Amen.

[Clio]

Nico... that's an awesome prayer... and it's all anyone needs to ask... Jesus died for me... so I could live.... Please Daddy, help me.

He will.

Clio

[Michelle]

Nico--that prayer always is heard--Jesus help me! I've been at the place where that's all I could utter, and even then I couldn't "sense" or "feel" that he was there, but later, when I looked back, I knew the ONLY way I got through the situation was because he WAS there.

{{{{N}}}}

M