Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: Robert No, if you participate in Capitalism you are participating in sin. So you'll be quitting your job come monday, right? Nope, I'm a sinner. You fellows claim to God's remnant keeping people. What you are is wretched sinners deceived by your own self-righteousness. You need to have your eyes opened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Sizeable grin... So, you think the Bible supports Capitalism? Would a Capitalist use the following in his business decisions? Luke 6:34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. Banking is based on giving to get. Sinners do that. Now notice verse 35: 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, (how?) and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. There goes the profit! Paul tells us "agape" is the fulfillment of the law. Agape, by his own definition, is not self-seeking. Hence Christ makes the following statements: "If you want to be perfect (in love), go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Nope, I'm a sinner. You fellows claim to God's remnant keeping people. What you are is wretched sinners deceived by your own self-righteousness. You need to have your eyes opened. So help us open them.How much "agape" did you spread around this week."True agape" How much self-seeking did you do? What kind of an example did someone that believes in "agape" set for those he was preaching to. Who besides you has claimed to be self-righteous? You accuse others of "self righteous works" How is that "Faith without works" working out for you? What lack of "works" will you be rewarded for? And Behold I come quickly and My reward is with Me,to give to everyone according to his works. Blessed are those that keep the commandments that they may have the right to the Tree of Life.... Faith without works is dead... Sanctified by faith....... The just shall live by faith..... For by grace you have been saved through faith,and that not of yourself,....Not of works Seems one without the other doesn't work out to well.One does something to enhance and cause the other to grow. How has yours been growing lately? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 How much "agape" did you spread around this week. The law won't ask about "Robert" when you stand before it. It will demand of Bonnie, perfect "agape" love. Here's Paul: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 ]And Behold I come quickly and My reward is with Me,to give to everyone according to his works. Blessed are those that keep the commandments that they may have the right to the Tree of Life.... Faith without works is dead... This is a typical SDA response....The problem is you aren't keeping the law if you are engaged in self-seeking. We can agree that Jesus kept the law. Not merely the letter, but especially the spirit of the law. Keep in mind that Christ "thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself." Notice that there was no self-seeking in Christ's life. Now read the following: Many see much to admire in the life of Christ. But true love for him can never dwell in the heart of the self-righteous. Not to see our own deformity is not to see the beauty of Christ’s character. When we are fully awake to our own sinfulness, we shall appreciate Christ. The more humble are our views of ourselves, the more clearly we shall see the spotless character of Jesus. He who says, “I am holy, I am sinless,” is self-deceived. Some have said this, and some even dare to say, “I am Christ.” To entertain such a thought is blasphemy. Not to see the marked contrast between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves. He who does not abhor himself can not understand the meaning of redemption. RH Sep 25, 1900 Again, I see a lot of pride...I see a lot of justification of sin (such as Capitalism). Why can't you guys just admit that you're sinners? After all it's evident that you aren't living Christ's life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 "If you want to be perfect (in love), go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys." Again, notice that the early Christian Church did just this: Acts 4:32 The whole congregation of believers was united as one - one heart, one mind! They didn't even claim ownership of their own possessions. No one said, "That's mine; you can't have it." They shared everything (i.e., "they had all things in common")....Those who owned fields or houses sold them and brought the price of the sale 35 to the apostles. The apostles then distributed it according to each person's need. The result? "There was no poverty among them". That's redistribution of the wealth, but not at the point of a gun. It was because God's Spirit was working in them because they were rejoicing in the truth as it is in Christ. Notice those who had wealth sold their goods just as Jesus stated: "Sell your possessions and give to the poor" This is how God brought wealth to His church in the book of Acts. Are you guys doing this in your church? If not, don't call yourselves the remnant. Why? The remnant will be going exactly what the early church did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 This is how God brought wealth to His church in the book of Acts. Are you guys doing this in your church? If not, don't call yourselves the remnant. Why? The remnant will be going exactly what the early church did. There is another and more important question that should engage the attention of the churches of today. The apostle Paul declares that "all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." 2 Timothy 3:12. Why is it, then, that persecution seems in a great degree to slumber? The only reason is that the church has conformed to the world's standard and therefore awakens no opposition. The religion which is current in our day is not of the pure and holy character that marked the Christian faith in the days of Christ and His apostles. It is only because of the spirit of compromise with sin, because the great truths of the word of God are so indifferently regarded, because there is so little vital godliness in the church (as in the early church), that Christianity is apparently so popular with the world. Let there be a revival of the faith and power of the early church, and the spirit of persecution will be revived, and the fires of persecution will be rekindled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 This is a typical SDA response....The problem is you aren't keeping the law if you are engaged in self-seeking. 10 Love (i.e., "agape") does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love [agape] is the fulfillment of the law Simply stated it takes agape to fulfill the law. The Pharisees kept the law outwardly, but all "their works was to be seen of men". You see the Pharisee were first class Capitalist. What they loved was money (See Luke 16:14). So the good things they pretended to do was for selfish motives. Ellen White: "Their (the Pharisees) spirit and motives and methods were the opposite of His (Christ's). While they claimed to be very jealous for the honor of the law, self-glory was the real object which they sought; and Christ would make it manifest to them that the lover of self is a transgressor of the law." Now look how Ellen White applies this to us: We may have flattered ourselves, as did Nicodemus, that our life has been upright, that our moral character is correct, and think that we need not humble the heart before God, like the common sinner: but when the light from Christ shines into our souls, we shall see how impure we are; we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life. [sC 28] Face it, Capitalism is a worldly institution. Yes, it works best, but it does so because it's based on Lucifer's love of self. However, it doesn't work for all people. Hence the division between rich & poor. In the early church there were no poor. Why? There was no self-seeking. While Capitalism might have worked for you guys, there's a million others where it hasn't. You just outsmarted the others....You did this through competition in one form or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: olger "The laborer is worthy of his hire." Then pay your employees more and stop thinking of your profits. Love them, not self. That's agape. "more" than what...?? Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 So, you think the Bible supports Capitalism? Would a Capitalist use the following in his business decisions? Lots of people are against profit until they have it... The Bible supports being productive, and Proverbs tells us that increase is the result of production. According to Ephesians that gain is to be tithed faithfully and cheerfully to the Lord and also used to bless others. "Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth" (Eph. 4:28). The five foolish virgins' failed appeal to "social justice" (oil justice?) revealed a heart adapted to socialism and unacquainted with the Lord. "Verily I say unto you, I never knew you" (v. 12). There is room for the productive, disciplined (discipled) and generous soul in heaven. There is no room for the slothful and the greedy. Walk with the King and be a blessing! Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Amen brother! Always biblical, and able to show a reason for your faith. I like that. 1Peter 3:15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Then pay your employees more and stop thinking of your profits. Love them, not self. That's agape. If he doesn't think about the profits, then he won't have anything to pay the employees with! DUH!!! The horse goes in FRONT of the carriage, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: bonnie How much "agape" did you spread around this week. The law won't ask about "Robert" when you stand before it. It will demand of Bonnie, perfect "agape" love. Here's Paul: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." If Bonnie shouldn't worry about where Robert stands, then Robert shouldn't be worried about where Bonnie stands. Do as I say and not as I do, is that it? You can't give away something you don't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: Robert Then pay your employees more and stop thinking of your profits. Love them, not self. That's agape. If he doesn't think about the profits, then he won't have anything to pay the employees with! DUH!!! The horse goes in FRONT of the carriage, not the other way around. zing Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: RLH So you'll be quitting your job come monday, right? Nope, I'm a sinner. You fellows claim to God's remnant keeping people. What you are is wretched sinners deceived by your own self-righteousness. You need to have your eyes opened. And you believe this is the job that God has appointed you with, to point out to us what wretched sinners we are? So you're the Anti-Adventist, is that it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The Bible supports being productive, Sure, if you are living for another's wealth you must be productive, but you are living for your own wealth. This is self-love and in disagreement with the law of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 This is a typical SDA response....The problem is you aren't keeping the law if you are engaged in self-seeking. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 If he doesn't think about the profits, then he won't have anything to pay the employees with! DUH!!! You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth. [DA 439] Fine, that could fit into agape, if his motive is living for others. Notice EGW statement: You want think our your wealth, but another's wealth. That's what the law demands.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Do as I say and not as I do, is that it? You can't give away something you don't have. Sorry, I can't get Bonnie into heaven. She'll either get there by law or grace. If law, Bonnie is in trouble. You too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 What if we already knew we were wretched sinners, and you are just beating a long dead horse for no reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 ...the problem is I have never said "I keep the law" in the manner you are referring to and no one else has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 What if we already knew we were wretched sinners.... Then I stand corrected.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 So you're the Anti-Adventist, is that it? No, not at all. I learned the gospel not at the Baptist church...not at the Methodist church...not at the Lutheran church, but the SDA church. God has blessed this church, but the remnant has not formed yet. The remnant is formed after the shaking within Adventism. But that's another subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: olger The Bible supports being productive, Sure, if you are living for another's wealth you must be productive, but you are living for your own wealth. And you know this how??? You are about to slam into a wall of your own creating, Robert. Measure your steps carefully... Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Originally Posted By: RLH Do as I say and not as I do, is that it? You can't give away something you don't have. Sorry, I can't get Bonnie into heaven. She'll either get there by law or grace. If law, Bonnie is in trouble. You too! Please don't apologize,I have never placed you on the level of someone that can get me to heaven. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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