Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 And you know this how??? Well, the result of living a life of agape, in this world, is poverty. Look at Christ's life. Now, if others are living for you and you them, it could work. Is that how you have gained your wealth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 "Righteousness by poverty." I love it. Morris Venden would have liked it too. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 What if we already knew we were wretched sinners, and you are just beating a long dead horse for no reason? There are those that understand and acknowledge they are " wretched sinners" Then there are those that wallow and glory in the fact. Ha-Ha I can do as I please and my salvation is assured. As my daddy said,avoid like the plague being sucked in by those that believe they cannot lose their salvation no matter how hard they try. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I have never placed you on the level of someone that can get me to heaven. Right, then don't worry about my relationship to the law. Worry about your own. The law tells you to "love your neighbor as yourself." Self-love is a given. Hence you are to take your love of self and project it to your neighbor, not yourself. Again, there's only one command, not two. IF I were you I would make my relationship to Christ and not the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 "Righteousness by poverty." I love it. Morris Venden would have liked it too. Doesn't a lot of this come from Jack Sequeria. What a relief it much have been to some to hear that which affirmed the way they chose to live their life Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 "Righteousness by poverty." I love it. Morris Venden would have liked it too. Morris Venden, whom I respect, is a sinner too....There's self-seeking in his life too. I think he would admit it. Poverty doesn't make you righteous. Poverty, in Christ's case, proved His righteousness. He "thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself". When you do that you end up with nothing unless the church is loving you back. Your wealth is to come from the charity of others.... "In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure; but all, from pure, genuine love [agape], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 So God is against owning a house? Nope 2 John 1:10 Philippians 1:2 2 Timothy 1:16 1 Timothy 3:4 1 Corinthians 16:19 Acts 21:8 Nice try tho.. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Right, then don't worry about my relationship to the law. Worry about your own. The law tells you to "love your neighbor as yourself." Self-love is a given. Hence you are to take your love of self and project it to your neighbor, not yourself. Again, there's only one command, not two. IF I were you I would make my relationship to Christ and not the law. You seem to be awfully worried about mine.You launched into this accusing others of making righteousness and capitalism one and the same.Accusations and arguments against statements never made determining motives of others you are not God like enough to discern. If I were you Robert,I would look at all Christ had to say. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Doesn't a lot of this come from Jack Sequeria. Here's what Jack says: What happened to his (Adam's) love for Eve before his Fall? It made a U-turn. Therefore, human love has all the qualities of God’s love except the direction. It is towards self so that we love ourselves unconditionally, everlastingly, and more than we love anyone or anything else. This is our human predicament. Paul says here that genuine law-keeping is loving our neighbor in the same way that we love ourselves: unconditionally and everlastingly. Unfortunately, man cannot do this in and of himself. An example of this is found in Matthew 19:16. A young man asks, “What good thing must I do to get eternal life?” Here was a sinner, trying to do good, in order to be saved. Jesus tried to correct him by saying that there is nobody good except God. “But,” He added, “if you want to go to heaven by being good, keep the commandments.” The young man asked, “Which ones?” Then, Jesus quoted to him the commandments that Paul is quoting here, in Romans 13:9. Matthew 19:18-19: Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” This commandment refers to our relationship to our neighbors. Jesus completed His statement the same way Paul does, “Love your neighbors in the same way that you love yourself.” In other words, we love our neighbors spontaneously and unconditionally just as we naturally love ourselves. The young man, not realizing what Jesus was really saying, said: “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I lack?” Jesus tested him as to whether he really loved his neighbor as himself. Matthew 19:21: Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Jesus, to prove to the young man that he did not, said, “Take your wealth, which means so much to you, and give it to the poor, your neighbors, then follow Me and I will give you My wealth.” This was a great bargain, but this young man had not accepted Jesus as the Son of God, the Messiah, so he did not consider this a bargain. He considered giving his wealth to the poor as a sacrifice which he was not willing to make. So, he left Jesus sorrowfully. Jesus took this opportunity to show the disciples that it is impossible for man to love his neighbor in and of himself, the same way that he loves himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Poverty doesn't make you righteous. Poverty, in Christ's case, proved His righteousness. He "thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself". When you do that you end up with nothing unless the church is loving you back. Your wealth is to come from the charity of others.... "In heaven none will think of self, nor seek their own pleasure; but all, from pure, genuine love [agape], will seek the happiness of the heavenly beings around them." [2T 132] Are you in heaven yet? Does your wealth come from the charity of others? You make certain claims and judgments against others.When pushed and prodded repeatedly for answers to your own life the best you have been able to come up with is a very limp wrist,tepid ... I make it an effort, through the HS, not to exploit. That says volumnes . Why are you making a effort? How silly unless you want to be demanded to keep the whole law?Self-seeking efforts on your part.Shame on you Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Here's what Jack says: What happened to his (Adam's) love for Eve before his Fall? It made a U-turn. Therefore, human love has all the qualities of God’s love except the direction. It is towards self so that we love ourselves unconditionally, everlastingly, and more than we love anyone or anything else. This is our human predicament. Paul says here that genuine law-keeping is loving our neighbor in the same way that we love ourselves: unconditionally and everlastingly. Unfortunately, man cannot do this in and of himself.[/quote This is a startling revelation?? One that you,Jack and a few select others know. From what you keep saying it seems like you are one of the few that understands these scriptures.Or maybe you think some cherry pick the bible as you seem to ,ignore those, and take only what makes their own life more palatable to them Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Anyone that claims faith and grace and that does not produce fruit(the dreaded works word) is a liar. Anyone that claims to be sinless because they keep the law is a liar. Some actually understood that before Jack,Morris or Robert. Some use it as an excuse to live life as they please,ignoring the existence of the law. Some use it as a right to inspect and discern the motives of others,while loudly proclaiming,Thank you God I am not like they are. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Amen sister! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Amen 2.0 !! Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Are you in heaven yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Anyone that claims faith and grace and that does not produce fruit(the dreaded works word) is a liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 No, however sin is still sin. The principle behind Capitalism is self-seeking. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Amen sister! Whose dog is that in your pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I make it an effort, through the HS, not to exploit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 If your faith has been established in Christ, yes, there will be agape seen in the life. Do you live in comfortable housing while others do not" Agape?? That is within your power to help correct. Have you? When you were driving your fancy car did you see to your neighbor that had none? Agape?? Do you have more than food and necessary clothing? Agape?? Many around you do not,what have you done about it? Do you have cable/Large screen TV while those around you are going without basics?Agape? Did you go to college to compete? Agape?? Who did you deprive of a job to have the one you do?Agape" Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The definition of sin does not rest in your hands "It (agape)is not self-seeking" (1 Cor 13:5 NIV) "Love (agape) is the fulfillment of the law" (Romans 13:10) If "agape" is a love that is not self-seeking, then self-seeking isn't the fulfillment of the law. It has to be transgression - i.e., sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Isa 48:17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD your God who teaches you to profit, who leads you by the way that you should go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I said there will be agape in the life experience....I didn't say it was 100% agape. Look at EGW's statement: "There was not one trace of selfishness (i.e., 100% agape - no selfishness) in the life of Christ. All who are laborers together with God will have the same spirit (attitude) as their Master had. They will be continually growing away from selfishness, and renouncing self-indulgence, even in things that had once appeared innocent to them. . ." [LHU 325] Do you see the difference, in the above statement, between Christ and ourselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 "It (agape)is not self-seeking" (1 Cor 13:5 NIV) "Love (agape) is the fulfillment of the law" (Romans 13:10) If "agape" is a love that is not self-seeking, then self-seeking isn't the fulfillment of the law. It has to be transgression - i.e., sin. Once you have mastered "agape" and taken care of your own self seeking,then correct that of others. Put your money(life) where your mouth is or it is nothing but empty words.Words to bang others over the head while glorying in "wretched sinfulness" and your exemption from the law.Have at it I will believe the words/meaning of Someone a whole lot smarter,wiser and better than you. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Isa 48:17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD your God who teaches you to profit, who leads you by the way that you should go. Here's what I found: This is what the LORD says-- your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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