Robert Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Do you live for others or only condemn others? I'm giving you, a SDA, what the law demands. If anything condemns you it is the law, not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I seem to recall at one point you had a rather expensive vehicle. What were you doing with that when so many go without? Bonnie, it is you who have placed Capitalism next to righteousness. You have consistently stated it isn't sin. Your argument is with the law - i.e., the spirit of the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 It primarily enables you. Then others get what's left over. That's iniquity. Agape doesn't look for gain - agape is not self-seeking. So no matter how you view it you're bent to self. You are failing to live Christ's life. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Again, two servants using capitalism and the evil bankers were told,"Well done thou good and faithful servant,Enter into the joy of they Lord" I'll examine the context....I'll get back with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Originally Posted By: bonnie Again, two servants using capitalism and the evil bankers were told,"Well done thou good and faithful servant,Enter into the joy of they Lord" I'll examine the context....I'll get back with you. Just a thought: The Parable of the Ten Talents is just that, a parable. It is not an promotion of Capitalism in any shape of form. I'll be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'm giving you, a SDA, what the law demands. If anything condemns you it is the law, not me. That doesn't answer the question as I have never claimed the "law" will give me eternal life. Just break it down for me as you have stated you prefer God's way. Christ loves all the same,no partiality,everyone equally and we should do same. In March,my husband and I will have been married fifty years.Some not so good,some alright and some great.I married very young and it took a lot of work. He came before other men,others that according to you should have been loved equally and treated with the same consideration.The way you claim to prefer would have simply meant any I cam in contact with and my husband would have gotten the barest minimum.Do you think we would have lasted fifty years? Then take into account God said the two should become one,the spouse being the most important person in your life.Was God wrong in expecting me to care for my husband more than any other man?I am not talking of intimacy,just the simple day to day effort that goes into a marriage? How about my children?Four children are a full time job,how much of that time should I have deprived my children of so that I could love all children equally without partiality? Unless I am mistaken,God is responsible for the incredible bond between a mother and her child.Must have been an error on His part God says to "Honor thy father and mother".I have a great deal of compassion and concern for the elderly that have no one,However,how much time should I have deprived my dying mother of in order to treat all dying mothers equally? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'll examine the context....I'll get back with you. Just a thought: The Parable of the Ten Talents is just that, a parable. It is not an promotion of Capitalism in any shape of form. I'll be back. Capitalism is involved. Is it promoting capitalism as a form of Godliness,NO It is promoting doing the best with the talents you have been given.God has expectations for even those with the least talent. The lazy,wicked servant lost even the least talents of the three. He was full of excuses for his failure.Somebody else's fault.Sound familiar? What I find interesting in the parable is the "Good and Faithful servants worked to the best of their ability,engaging in capitalism and those evil bankers to warrant the trust the Master placed in them. It doesn't imply or state even that money was the main objective,at least I don't think so.It means God has entrusted certain talents to each of us.Not all have equal talents,but we are all to do our best with what we have. To you that is greed,doing your best means a insatiable quest for wealth. I am sorry if that is the way you live your life but don't keep placing that on everyone else Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 It is promoting doing the best with the talents you have been given. God doesn't give you talents so you can use them for your own gain. Never....Again, I'll be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 God doesn't give you talents so you can use them for your own gain. Never....Again, I'll be back. You are still dancing around the mulberry bush. Telling me that I need to live my life in a pre-fall world.You have told me what you think of how I live my life and how I should be living it differently and that is okay.You have rather arrogantly said that you "prefer God's way" to my choosing Lucifers way.Tell me how you live your life.That shouldn't take any research.Do you live what you so stridently preach or even make an attempt? Just using a figure,if you make 500.00 a week,how much of that goes to your own self seeking? Do you eliminate all needless spending on self and use the rest for the "wealth" of others? If not,why not? I remember some comment by you some time back about a rather expensive vehicle you owned?Why did you?Why not a reliable cheap second hand car so others could benefit? If you have children did you treat them in the same manner you treated the child of a stranger?If not,why not? Christ did/does. You obviously have a computer,not vital to life,Why? How many children could you help? Do you have cable/large screen TV.Why? Provide a lot of meals for children that are going without. Is all your preaching on the subject something the other guy should do and you are exempt? Do you walk your talk? Claiming a belief is a lie unless that belief promotes something. None of this takes research,simply,Robert how do you live your life? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 You claim that to engage in Capitalism isn't sin. Do you stand by this claim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 "She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. [17] She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. [18] She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night. [19] She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. [20] She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. [21] She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. [22] She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple. [23] Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. [24] She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. [25] Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come. [26] She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness. [27] She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness. Nough said, Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 You claim that to engage in Capitalism isn't sin. Do you stand by this claim? It would be nice if you would quit dancing around to avoid a straight forward answer. Capitalism is a fact of life,one none of us can avoid.You don't avoid it.Those that claim to,take part by relying on those that do.In a post fall world,labor for profit/pay became necessary. God laid out a pretty good game plan.You don't work you don't eat. Those with more should care for the widows and orphans and those that cannot care for themselves.Your version is that I cannot engage in any business/job that anyone else does because competition of that type is a sin to you.God doesn't say that. He does say a lot about greed/fraud/laziness/caring for your family as the post of Olgers shows.He wants us to be happy,you don't because that is self serving. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Nough said, This isn't an endorsement of Capitalism. It simply states she isn't idle. So it's not "nough said". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 God laid out a pretty good game plan. Again, placing sin at the feet of God. Genesis tells us that "the LORD God...planted a garden in the east, in Eden..." Notice God did the work. Mankind was the recipient. Instead mankind turned His back on God and turned to his own way: The result? "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." This is the result of turning to our own way. Commerce, as we know it, is a result of the fall and is therefore earthly, not heavenly. Again, Everything that goes to make up this worldly system — nationalism, tribalism, politics, education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc. — is founded upon the principle of love of self, even though at times this principle may not be obvious. According to 1 John 2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 As you have stated,You prefer God's way and have explained at length what that is.You have failed however to answer the numerous times I have asked you how you apply what you claim to prefer/believe in your own life. If I (general) have an opportunity to help someone and enjoy doing it that is self seeking on my part.SIN! How would you have me approach that so it met with your vision of what God's way is? God says He loves a cheerful giver.Should I do it grudgingly so as not to appear self-seeking? If I am able to provide someone with an item they need and cannot afford,I am giving them crumbs.How do you live your life? When/if you give to others do you give the bulk of what you have to others and keep the crumbs for yourself? Or do you keep the bulk? I am not to think more of my children/spouse/parents because there should not be any partiality. How do you apply that during the course of your life? When my mother was terminally ill,I was very partial.She was my focus day and night for weeks.During that time two other mothers were dying of cancer.They were fellow church members and friends.Should my time/care/concern been equally divided? Is it a self centered sin that when all was said and done it was one of the most rewarding periods in my life? Apply your no partiality.Christ can and does comfort and encourage all dying mothers if asked or allowed to.He can do that.I can't.God says to honor your parents,not everyone else's parents in the same way. Should the focus of my husband be on me as his spouse and our children? Or to be impartial and love all the same as Christ should he divide his time and efforts,giving each a little? How do you maintain? Do you work? If so are you paid? Do you provide a service to an employer in exchange for money? How much of that do you keep for yourself and how much do you give to those you love as yourself? I am not asking dollar amount,but is it 1/4 of your salary/income and you keeping 3/4,do you do without unnecessary items so you have more to give? Do you split it half and half? Do you give 3/4 and keep the crumbs for yourself? You informed me that if I have food and clothing,I am to be content. Do you have more than that and if so why? do you split it half and half? Do you do the best of your ability for your employer? If not you are stealing. Are you still into expensive vehicles when others have none? Let me know how what you claim to believe is applied in your daily life Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Again, placing sin at the feet of God. Genesis tells us that "the LORD God...planted a garden in the east, in Eden..." Notice God did the work. Mankind was the recipient. Instead mankind turned His back on God and turned to his own way: The result? "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." This is the result of turning to our own way. Commerce, as we know it, is a result of the fall and is therefore earthly, not heavenly. Again, Everything that goes to make up this worldly system — nationalism, tribalism, politics, education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc. — is founded upon the principle of love of self, even though at times this principle may not be obvious. According to 1 John 2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self). Can you just explain how what you claim is applied in your life Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 The Parable of the Ten Talents is just that, a parable. It is not an promotion of Capitalism in any shape of form. I'll be back. That word “talent” is used only as a metaphor. The question is, “What do those talents represent?” Turn to Ephesians 4:7-8 where Paul gives us some insight as to what those talents could be. Here is what the apostle Paul says: But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. This is why it says [now he is quoting from the Old Testament, Psalm 68:18]: “When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts [or we could use the word “talents”] to men.” Paul is saying here that every believer is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Number one, the gifts represent the abilities that Christ gives us. These are not our abilities but they are His abilities that He gives us through the Holy Spirit. Remember, the Holy Spirit gives every believer a gift. Now I want you to notice in Matthew 25:14 that none are excluded. He gives every servant a gift. They are not all the same talents, they are all different, but everyone is given a gift. Likewise, every believer receives a spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit. Every one of us, without exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Can you just explain how what you claim is applied in your life Will you admit that Capitalism is earthly, not of God, and therefore self-seeking? If you admit this I will reply to your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Originally Posted By: bonnie Can you just explain how what you claim is applied in your life Will you admit that Capitalism is earthly, not of God, and therefore self-seeking? If you admit this I will reply to your question. Of course capitalism is earthly. Pre-fall it was not a factor. After the fall living conditions,how people lived,even the food they ate,how they obtained it and everything else changed.God knew we had to labor/profit,provide got our families etc. It could not be done in a pre-fall fashion God gave us a pretty good blueprint in how to live in a sinful world and it is not your blueprint. God is not "yelling sinner" when He knows I am happy when I have been able to help someone else,or when I have completed a job well done,when I enjoy my children more than the neighbor children,and focus on my husband instead of all men I come in contact with. Please no general replies telling me what God wants of me. How your complaints against my life is lacking in yours and how you apply your stated belief/preference Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Here's your boy Glenn Beck taking up for Capitalism: Quote: ... Jeez. I mean, from a Christian: Capitalism is evil. Capitalism is freedom. What we do with capitalism is evil sometimes. Capitalism, capitalism is evil. Really? Tell that to Bill Gates, who has taken, what is it, a billion dollars and given it to cure malaria, given it to help people all over the world. You tell Wall-Mart that capitalism is evil as they are writing out the largest check of any corporation for charity on planet Earth, every year. You tell them that capitalism is evil. This is funny....They gain their $$$ (especially Wall-mart) through exploitation and then give a small portion to charity. I guess they think they can buy their way out of their sins with corrupt money. God is wise to this nonsense and self-righteousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 God knew we had to labor/profit, provide got our families etc. It could not be done in a pre-fall fashion... In other words sin is necessary is this world? Sounds like you are justifying the existence of self-love of which Satan kingdom is built. The early church is how God wanted His people to live: Acts 4:32 The whole congregation of believers was united as one - one heart, one mind! They didn't even claim ownership of their own possessions. No one said, "That's mine; you can't have it." They shared everything. 33 The apostles gave powerful witness to the resurrection of the Master Jesus, and grace was on all of them. 34 And so it turned out that not a person among them was needy. That is God remedy for poverty in His Church. The problem is the church isn't living like Christ. The bride needs to grow up....Instead she's deceived by her own self-righteousness. Hence some call the SDA church God's remnant church - those who keep the commandments. Well, when I see folks living like Acts chapter 4 then I'll know that's God's remnant. In the meantime we are bunch of sinners gaining through a corrupt system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Look at these EGW quotes: Quote: "Self-renunciation is the great law of self-preservation, and self-preservation is the law of self-destruction." Self-seeking will bring war and poverty. It's coming... Quote: "Self-love, self-interest, must perish. And the law of self-sacrifice is the law of self-preservation." The last group of believers - the remnant - loved not their lives even unto death. There will be no self-interest. Quote: “Their earthliness must be removed that the image of Christ may be perfectly reflected.” [4SP 438] When our earthliness is removed - when we truly and fully have the mind of Christ - then all self-seeking will go. Hence Capitalism will be shunned and God's church will repeat what happened in Acts. Then the world will turn on us.... In the meantime we are bunch of sinners (albeit growing in grace) involved in Babylon - a corrupt system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Here's your boy Glenn Beck taking up for Capitalism: Jeez. I mean, from a Christian: Capitalism is evil. Capitalism is freedom. What we do with capitalism is evil sometimes. Capitalism, capitalism is evil. Really? Tell that to Bill Gates, who has taken, what is it, a billion dollars and given it to cure malaria, given it to help people all over the world. You tell Wall-Mart that capitalism is evil as they are writing out the largest check of any corporation for charity on planet Earth, every year. You tell them that capitalism is evil. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 God is wise,especially to those that talk the talk and demand others walk their talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 In other words sin is necessary is this world? Sounds like you are justifying the existence of self-love of which Satan kingdom is built. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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