Dr. Shane Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 After one has been in the church for a while they realize the easiest way to get into trouble is to say yes when someone from the nominating committee calls. Would you be willing to be a Sabbath school teacher, Pathfinder leader, deacon, Women's ministry leader, etc, etc, etc? As soon as a person accepts a position in the church the microscope gets placed on them. Their dress is too short, someone saw them with bacon in their shopping cart, she yelled at her husband, he was at an 'R' rated movie, she picked her kids up from school with bloodshot eyes, etc, etc, etc. The message too often comes through load and clear. If you want to live at peace, when the nominating committee calls say "Thanks. but no thanks." Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Good advice Shane. There's another thread similar to this. It's regarding porno and an Adventist pastor. Can you imagine having a pastor that actually sins? The wagging tongues just love to waggle. I think leaders that sin make the best leaders. But that just may be me. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 When I was 17 I got nominated to be the hymn singin time leader guy (been a while so I don't remember the name of the position) I accepted. Poor church. See I was very active in private music lessons and studied music theory. So I would pick songs in the most minor key possible and that no-one knew. My theory was that they were in that hymn book for a reason and should be sung.Sadly I did not last in the position for very long and those songs still likely remain hidden away in that book not being sung............ :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 After one has been in the church for a while they realize the easiest way to get into trouble is to say yes when someone from the nominating committee calls. Would you be willing to be a Sabbath school teacher, Pathfinder leader, deacon, Women's ministry leader, etc, etc, etc? As soon as a person accepts a position in the church the microscope gets placed on them. Their dress is too short, someone saw them with bacon in their shopping cart, she yelled at her husband, he was at an 'R' rated movie, she picked her kids up from school with bloodshot eyes, etc, etc, etc. The message too often comes through load and clear. If you want to live at peace, when the nominating committee calls say "Thanks. but no thanks." I agree, great advice Shane. Besides accepting many of the positions means dealing with so many more of other people's problems and the church at large's problems. It took me a long time to figure out I was better off focusing more on the problems I had which God wanted me to deal with than to be blind to my own issues because I was dealing others' issues. Since I now have left the "power/rat race" of holding many SDA Church "positions" from top to bottom, I have found my "walk with God" is fuller and more productive. I also see many more things in a much clearer light. Thank you God for your kindness and your longsufferingness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Good advice Shane.There's another thread similar to this. It's regarding porno and an Adventist pastor. Can you imagine having a pastor that actually sins? The wagging tongues just love to waggle. I think leaders that sin make the best leaders. But that just may be me. Many pastor's I know think they are beyond sinning and they foster this myth in their parishioners/underlings within the SDA Church. It seems to go along with their mantra "we are the Lord's Anointed". Sort of like the RCC/Pope and the Catholic priesthood. Yet SDA pew sitters and leaders alike will bristle at such a statement even though in their hearts they know it is true. However, if the Truth be known............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Boasting about sinfulness is just as pathetic as boasting about sinlessness. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Is there more to the story Shane? You seem to be implying that all church members are this way - thus a universal "no" is in order. Must be more to the story. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 miz3 says, "Many pastor's I know think they are beyond sinning and they foster this myth in their parishioners/underlings within the SDA Church." ....and pigs fly. Uh hu, I didn't just fall off the boat yesterday that is one far fetched tale if I ever heard one!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Many pastor's I know think they are beyond sinning and they foster this myth in their parishioners/underlings within the SDA Church. It seems to go along with their mantra "we are the Lord's Anointed". Really?? MANY? I may well know a significant amount more Pastors, perhaps not. I have never met one of those. Would like to talk with one of those. Since you know many....... Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 If you read the new testament, the word repent is written often. Is it wrong to proclaim this still? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 Is there more to the story Shane? You seem to be implying that all church members are this way - thus a universal "no" is in order. Must be more to the story. I was visiting with the pastor of a large SDA church and he told me of all the calls he gets each week from members reporting sins of various members in leadership or teaching positions. After he told me this the thought occurred to me "no wonder it is so hard for nominating committees to find volunteers." Who wants to volunteer to the the next new topic in the church gossip circle? That is not the only problem this tattle-tale situation creates. Consider how much of the pastor's time is consumed having to play private detective in the lives of his members to discover which charges have substance and which do not. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 If you read the new testament, the word repent is written often. Is it wrong to proclaim this still? What I have observed is that repentance has nothing to do with it. I have seen leaders in various levels forced to resign their positions even after there has been sincere repentance. It scars them severely. I think if we would actually follow the Lord's advice in Matthew 18 a lot of pain and spiritual scarring would be avoided. Mr. Gossip: Pastor, I saw Jack Jones with a beer in his hand at a bowling ally last week. I don't think a beer drinker should be teaching Sabbath school. Pastor: Have you spoken to him about it? Mr. Gossip: errrr... no. but I told my wife, sister, mom, best friend and the Sabbath School superintendent. Pastor: Well, Jesus says we are to first go to the person alone and if he doesn't listen then to take one or two with us. Mr. Gossip: I just don't feel comfortable talking to him alone. Pastor: Pray about it. I want you to pray about this for 30 days. Then tell him you saw him with a beer and want to know how you can help. Let me know what his response is. Mr. Gossip: I guess I can do that. Pastor: and don't talk about him to others any more. I'm sure if the roles were reversed, you wouldn't want him talking about you before he has had an opportunity to explain. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 No doubt there are times and circumstances that have to be dealt some form of disciplinary or censure regardless of repentance. Consider the court system. Apologizing, sincerely and with tears, really truly heart felt apology, for robbing the bank still leaves the consequences that have to be dealt with. David sinned and was truly heart felt sorry and repentant. But he still paid a heavy price through out his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 No doubt there are times and circumstances that have to be dealt some form of disciplinary or censure regardless of repentance. I think that goes without saying. The issue is that those times and circumstances are in reality probably few and far in between and yet our pastors have to deal with scores of frivolous complaints and rumors. I am quite sure that knowing how the rumor mill works keeps many people from accepting positions of service offered to them by nominating committees. That really is a "Real Issue In Adventism Today." Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsducky Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Once upon a time the SDA church I attended had a wonderful pastor who was quite wise. He had a favorite way of off putting gossips and sin reporters. I witnessed several occasions where he told the "reporter" to "write it in a book and he'd read it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Many pastor's I know think they are beyond sinning and they foster this myth in their parishioners/underlings within the SDA Church. It seems to go along with their mantra "we are the Lord's Anointed". Really?? MANY? I may well know a significant amount more Pastors, perhaps not. I have never met one of those. Would like to talk with one of those. Since you know many....... Fine. I won't get in a numbers game with you Stan. The many I know do indeed feel/practice as I have said. I never ever said that all pastors behave/feel this way. I indeed know some who are very dedicated and very humble (at least to the best of my knowledge). I can only relate to you my own experience. I have seen enough to have made this statement and there is enough for me to make my general statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: olger Is there more to the story Shane? You seem to be implying that all church members are this way - thus a universal "no" is in order. Must be more to the story. I was visiting with the pastor of a large SDA church and he told me of all the calls he gets each week from members reporting sins of various members in leadership or teaching positions. After he told me this the thought occurred to me "no wonder it is so hard for nominating committees to find volunteers." Who wants to volunteer to the the next new topic in the church gossip circle? That is not the only problem this tattle-tale situation creates. Consider how much of the pastor's time is consumed having to play private detective in the lives of his members to discover which charges have substance and which do not. Almost every pastor or church elder receives these types of information. Some is true, some is false. Regardless it is amazing how much dirty info one receives in these positions. It is also true even around the children's sabbath school adult leaders and teachers will talk with the parents, and the dirt will fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 It is best to look to God/Jesus Christ and be uplifted rather than at the garbage. It is not new that garbage exists in the Church. Even the true Eleven under Jesus had much garbage and much trash, "as the genuine Lord's Anointed". Looking to God/Jesus Christ and depending on Him is the only way to solve this avalanche of garbage that exists among us as humans both in the SDA Church and out of it. We all have the disease and we have it pretty bad. God/Jesus Christ gives us something to Behold that will uplift us instead of depress us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyFaith Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I have never met a pastor/minister/priest/reverend of any religion who has believed he was beyond sinning. Quote Anneliese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I have never met a pastor/minister/priest/reverend of any religion who has believed he was beyond sinning. If such were true then we all would be much happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyFaith Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Why does your happiness depend on what someone else believes? Quote Anneliese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Why does your happiness depend on what someone else believes? You misunderstand. I am not personally happier but I am saying that the collection of humanity within this environment would be much a happier place to be if what you said was true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyFaith Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 But you wrote: "I can only relate to you my own experience. I have seen enough to have made this statement and there is enough for me to make my general statement." I am also saying of my own experience with the many leaders in various denominations. My experience is just as valid as yours, is it not? We may then both having different experiences be each correct. I have never heard anyone say they cannot sin. Nobody. If you believe that people say they do not sin then you become bitter because you know better. If you look at the behaviour of other people and determine (based on their behaviour) that they believe they do not sin, then you still become bitter. I have found that it is best not to judge other people because: a. I do not know the other person's heart; b. I do not need to know the other person's heart; and c. it is not my business to know what is in the heart of anyone else but me. I save my self from much worry and bitterness by seeing people as human. People do not change as they step over threshold and enter a church. It is members who create atmosphere in churches. If preacher does not conform to ideals of members is that his fault? If members do not conform to ideals of preacher is that their fault? Ideals are good for something to reach for one's self, but not to expect the same from everyone else. That is just how I see things. Quote Anneliese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 But you wrote: "I can only relate to you my own experience. I have seen enough to have made this statement and there is enough for me to make my general statement." I am also saying of my own experience with the many leaders in various denominations. My experience is just as valid as yours, is it not? We may then both having different experiences be each correct. I have never heard anyone say they cannot sin. Nobody. If you believe that people say they do not sin then you become bitter because you know better. If you look at the behaviour of other people and determine (based on their behaviour) that they believe they do not sin, then you still become bitter. I have found that it is best not to judge other people because: a. I do not know the other person's heart; b. I do not need to know the other person's heart; and c. it is not my business to know what is in the heart of anyone else but me. I save my self from much worry and bitterness by seeing people as human. People do not change as they step over threshold and enter a church. It is members who create atmosphere in churches. If preacher does not conform to ideals of members is that his fault? If members do not conform to ideals of preacher is that their fault? Ideals are good for something to reach for one's self, but not to expect the same from everyone else. That is just how I see things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Well thats about as clear as mud miz3. I still don't recognize any Pastors in all that confusion. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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