No Thanks - Nominating Committee

[Overaged]

When I was 17 I got nominated to be the hymn singin time leader guy (been a while so I don't remember the name of the position)

I accepted.

Poor church.

See I was very active in private music lessons and studied music theory. So I would pick songs in the most minor key possible and that no-one knew. My theory was that they were in that hymn book for a reason and should be sung.Sadly I did not last in the position for very long and those songs still likely remain hidden away in that book not being sung............

Hey; I would still nominate you IF you promised not to make me learn more than one new song a month...

[Overaged]

But you wrote: "I can only relate to you my own experience. I have seen enough to have made this statement and there is enough for me to make my general statement."

I am also saying of my own experience with the many leaders in various denominations. My experience is just as valid as yours, is it not? We may then both having different experiences be each correct.

I have never heard anyone say they cannot sin. Nobody. If you believe that people say they do not sin then you become bitter because you know better. If you look at the behaviour of other people and determine (based on their behaviour) that they believe they do not sin, then you still become bitter. I have found that it is best not to judge other people because: a. I do not know the other person's heart; b. I do not need to know the other person's heart; and c. it is not my business to know what is in the heart of anyone else but me. I save my self from much worry and bitterness by seeing people as human.

People do not change as they step over threshold and enter a church. It is members who create atmosphere in churches. If preacher does not conform to ideals of members is that his fault? If members do not conform to ideals of preacher is that their fault? Ideals are good for something to reach for one's self, but not to expect the same from everyone else.

That is just how I see things.

Hey; you make some good points here. HappyFaith is a good user name for you!!

[Woody]

Quote:

I was visiting with the pastor of a large SDA church and he told me of all the calls he gets each week from members reporting sins of various members in leadership or teaching positions. After he told me this the thought occurred to me "no wonder it is so hard for nominating committees to find volunteers." Who wants to volunteer to the the next new topic in the church gossip circle?

That is not the only problem this tattle-tale situation creates. Consider how much of the pastor's time is consumed having to play private detective in the lives of his members to discover which charges have substance and which do not.

I can verify that this happens. But I've not know a pastor to "play private detective". A good pastor simple states the following - each and every time someone goes to her with someone's sin :

"Have you followed Matt. 18 ? "

Of course they have no followed Matt.18 so the pastor's job is to simply remind them and tell them to either shut up or go forth and do so.

[Woody]

Not to try to side up with any particular side - but I know of a few members here who think they no longer sin.

In fact I have personally been told I must be perfect and no longer sin or I won't go to Heaven. When I told them that I am a sinner. I was told that I was going to Hell.

It is amazing what one can experience on a Christian forum. So, do not underestimate what some lengths people will go.

[John317]

Boasting about sinfulness is just as pathetic as boasting about sinlessness.

[Woody]

Quote:

Luke 18:13-14 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

[John317]

.... I know of a few members here who think they no longer sin.

Did they say, "I no longer sin"?

Originally Posted By: Woody

In fact I have personally been told I must be perfect and no longer sin or I won't go to Heaven.

Jesus Himself commands us to be "perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect." Does that mean being "sinless"?

What does Jesus mean when he commands us to be "perfect"?

Does it mean if you commit a sin tomorrow, you won't go to heaven?

1 John 1: 8-2: 5 says,

[8]If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [10] If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

[1]My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. [2] He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. [4] Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, [5] but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him:

Originally Posted By: Woody

When I told them that I am a sinner. I was told that I was going to Hell.

Did they say, "You are going to hell"?

All of us are sinners in the sense that we are imperfect and stand in need of God's forgiveness.

But the Bible makes a distinction between sinners and the righteous. Only the righteous will be saved in God's kingdom. The righteous are people who have repented of their sins, turned away from them, & been forgiven. They have been washed and sanctified and justified. Romans 6 says they are "set free from sin" and have become "slaves of righteousness."

As 1 Cor. 6: 9-11 says:

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, [10] nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [11] And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Rev. 22: 14, 15 puts it this way:

Blessed are those who wash their robes [or do His commandments], so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. [15] Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

[Woody]

Quote:

Did they say, "You are going to hell"?

Yes

[Woody]

Quote:

God be merciful to me a sinner.

[Gail]

Interesting thing that John317 notes- that the righteous still fall into sin. Yet through Christ's blood they are saved.

Do they look upon themselves as righteous? I don't know... I would like to think that they look at themselves as sinners.

Jesus is the hope. He is the One to whom we cling at every stage of the way

[phkrause]

Quote:

Did they say, "You are going to hell"?

Yes

And guess what Woody, those that judge like that shall be judged the same way.

[Gail]

And guess what Woody, those that judge like that shall be judged the same way.

It's a Biblical principle:

Accusations in Bible times

[aldona]

After one has been in the church for a while they realize the easiest way to get into trouble is to say yes when someone from the nominating committee calls. Would you be willing to be a Sabbath school teacher, Pathfinder leader, deacon, Women's ministry leader, etc, etc, etc?

As soon as a person accepts a position in the church the microscope gets placed on them. Their dress is too short, someone saw them with bacon in their shopping cart, she yelled at her husband, he was at an 'R' rated movie, she picked her kids up from school with bloodshot eyes, etc, etc, etc.

The message too often comes through load and clear. If you want to live at peace, when the nominating committee calls say "Thanks. but no thanks."

When you belong to a small church, you don't have that luxury. Each member takes on 3-4 positions, otherwise the church doesn't function. The only way I can get away with only holding two positions (musician and choir co-director) is because I practice medicine full time. To say "no" to ALL positions would just be unspeakably bad and selfish.

What I do say "no" to, however, is participating in the nominating committee itself. I did it a couple of times and I soon got sick of the politics, backbiting, gossip (under the guise of "let's share some reasons why Brother X may not be the right person for the job"; people threatening to leave the church if they or their family member didn't get a coveted position; tithe records being brought out and shown to demonstrate that "brother B hasn't paid tithe for ___ months, so he can't be an elder"...ugh, no more of that for me, thank you very much.

AJ

[olger]

If you read the new testament, the word repent is written often. Is it wrong to proclaim this still?

Hear Hear !

[olger]

The burden of Matthew 18 is reconciliation. When we shoot at others from the shadows, we prevent opportunity for that reconciliation.

`g

[Dr. Shane]

A good pastor simple states the following - each and every time someone goes to her with someone's sin :

"Have you followed Matt. 18 ? "

Of course they have not followed Matt.18 so the pastor's job is to simply remind them and tell them to either shut up or go forth and do so.

[Dr. Shane]

What I do say "no" to, however, is participating in the nominating committee itself. I did it a couple of times and I soon got sick of the politics, backbiting, gossip (under the guise of "let's share some reasons why Brother X may not be the right person for the job"; people threatening to leave the church if they or their family member didn't get a coveted position; tithe records being brought out and shown to demonstrate that "brother B hasn't paid tithe for ___ months, so he can't be an elder"...ugh, no more of that for me, thank you very much.

AJ

Now that is a real issue in Adventism. Isn't it?

[HappyFaith]

Originally Posted By: olger

Boasting about sinfulness is just as pathetic as boasting about sinlessness.

YES!!!