Why are you atheists so angry?

[cardw]

It is a common statement to hear from Christians that atheists are angry implying that they should be quiet.

Here is lecture that really tries to answer this question

[BobRyan]

In the opening two minutes the topic is made specific "why are atheists angry about religion"? (And various forms of that question added).

1. The first question (As around the 2 minute mark) is about "religion happy to co-exist with us (atheists). Co-"Exist" appears on the surface to ask for the right to free will - the right "to make a choice" and then "exist". (More of a dark ages question). Clearly many religions including the SDA religion support the concept of "free will".

The author claims that "peaceful co-existence" is unlikely. Since we see no violence on this board in that regard - we move past it.

2. The speaker notes that atheists are often seen as disrespectful, angry, intolerant, biggotted. That observation (or that subject area) compares well with CARDW's video making that point here -

http://www.clubadventist.com/forum/ubbth...html#Post498913

The speaker says that billboards stating that people should forget about God - are very effective even though they get a lot of negative reaction.

3. The speaker than argues that "many atheists are angry about religion" (including the speaker). (at 3:45 - 5:00 min)

Interesting quote at that point - the author talks about the idea of atheists ever having the opportunity to "dig up Jesus Christ so that we can crucify him all over again.. that would be really awesome" )

At this 3:45-5:00 min point the author admits that she is one of the angry atheists.

Given that the Holy Spirit "convicts the world of sin and righteousness and judgment" - would this real life day to day element leave atheists in an "angry state"? hmm -- good question.

Given that Romans 1 states that they are "without excuse" - would this text - leave atheists "feeling angry"? hmm - good thing to think about.

In any case -...

many things to consider.

in Christ,

Bob

[cardw]

This is a video at the same conference on the idea of rationality and how many people, including atheists, have a Straw Vulcan view of rationality.

This atheist, as you will see, is not angry at all.

Atheism is dialoging on a wide spectrum of topics and this demonstrates this in complement with the first video.

[BobRyan]

In the first video - 7:21 the atheist speaker listing all of her reasons for being "An angry atheist" lists that 80+ years after evolutionists lost the Scopes trial - school boards are still having to spend money to shut creation alternatives out of the class room and are constantly having to defend the dark ages idea of only one idea allowed - where that idea is blind faith evolutionism.

What is curious to me - is that the atheist speaker immediately recognizes that as a distinctive atheist agenda/issue - yet some of the TE's on this board are still befuddled -- supposing that this is not an atheist issue.

How can the TE's - "still be confused" at this point??

in Christ,

Bob

[cardw]

What is curious to me - is that the atheist speaker immediately recognizes that as a distinctive atheist agenda/issue - yet some of the TE's on this board are still befuddled -- supposing that this is not an atheist issue.

How can the TE's - "still be confused" at this point??

I think you are confused Bob.

It is not exclusively an atheist issue. There are far more believers that hold evolution to be true than atheists. This may change, because, as in the case of Bravus, this continual insistence that the earth was created in 6 days, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, may serve as a primary vehicle to change their minds about religion.

That is another thing that makes atheists angry. It is the continual insistence that evolution is a religious view.

[Igakusei]

Most Christians are evolutionists, and I'm fairly sure that most evolutionists are Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution

So it's a little silly to identify it so strongly with atheism. Clearly most atheists accept evolution (except for these guys), but the majority of Christians also do, even in America.

[phkrause]

That's really sad.

[Igakusei]

That's really sad.

I completely agree, but probably for different reasons than you do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnJX68ELbAY

[BobRyan]

Most Christians are evolutionists, and I'm fairly sure that most evolutionists are Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution

So it's a little silly to identify it so strongly with atheism. Clearly most atheists accept evolution (except for these guys), but the majority of Christians also do, even in America.

And yet Darwin, Dawkins, Provine, Meyers - and now this speaker in CARDW's opening video (at the 7:20 min:sec point on the vid) all agree that evolutionism is a distinctively atheist idea.

Who can blame them?

It is glaringly obvious.

And the "except for these guys" quote above - does not appear to be an atheist group at all.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

What is curious to me - is that the atheist speaker immediately recognizes evolutionism in public schools as a distinctive atheist agenda/issue - (7min:20Sec into CARDW's Vid) yet some of the TE's on this board are still befuddled -- supposing that this is not an atheist issue.

How can the TE's - "still be confused" at this point??

[Bravus]

237,489

{times BobRyan has quoted Colin Patterson on this forum}

[Amelia]

Quote:

the author talks about the idea of atheists ever having the opportunity to "dig up Jesus Christ so that we can crucify him all over again.. that would be really awesome" )

A rather hateful thing to say. Do atheists feel the same about Muhammad? Buddah? Krishna? etc. Or is it just Jesus and Christians they would like to see crucified? The reason I ask is; the few atheists I know speak violenlty against christians and "their" God yet other beliefs get a pass.

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

the author talks about the idea of atheists ever having the opportunity to "dig up Jesus Christ so that we can crucify him all over again.. that would be really awesome" )

A rather hateful thing to say. Do atheists feel the same about Muhammad? Buddah? Krishna? etc. Or is it just Jesus and Christians they would like to see crucified? The reason I ask is; the few atheists I know speak violenlty against christians and "their" God yet other beliefs get a pass.

Ya'll seem to know a whole different brand of atheists than I do! Of course the hatefull ones are very vocal and will stand out.

That said.

One of the major reasons Bible based religions get that kind of rap is that they are the only one I know of that will come to your house to tell you that you need to be saved. Other than JCI religions I can not think of any other that try to convert people, and Judism and Muslims tend to only do that if you want to marry into their families.

I have nothing against Christians believing their beliefs. I love a good spiritual conversation with someone about their beliefs.

But nothing irritates me worse than someone coming to the privacy of my home, knocking on my door and basically telling me that I am not a good person. That I am lost and need to be saved. Second to that is people that can not DISCUSS spirituality but need to preach to you.

This is found mostly with Christians. I think that is part of what breeds that attitude. It is really unfair to the millions of devout Christians that quietly go about their lives trying to be close to their God without shoving it in others faces.

[BobRyan]

237,489

{times BobRyan has quoted Colin Patterson on this forum}

The evolutionists make it so easy with their "don't call this religion whatever you do " openers. Just so we can remind them that their own atheist evolutionists are doing this to them.

I owe it all to them!

in Christ,

Bob

[olger]

That's really sad.

Indeed.

[Bravus]

I'm neither an atheist nor an apologist for atheism, but I'd make a couple of points:

1. Many (most?) atheists would disavow the 'angry' label: most are passionate, but 'angry' tends more often to be a way of diminishing that to claim it's a tantrum rather than an argument.

2. Atheists in Muslim countries, or those who've fled them, like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, tend to criticise Islam. I'm sure atheists in countries with other dominant religions devote most of their attention to those religions. It's really rather unsurprising that atheists in a mostly-Christian country would talk about mostly-Christian topics.

3. Certainly the question 'Why are you Christians so angry?' is one that could be asked with just as much justification.

[cardw]

Quote:

the author talks about the idea of atheists ever having the opportunity to "dig up Jesus Christ so that we can crucify him all over again.. that would be really awesome" )

A rather hateful thing to say. Do atheists feel the same about Muhammad? Buddah? Krishna? etc. Or is it just Jesus and Christians they would like to see crucified? The reason I ask is; the few atheists I know speak violenlty against christians and "their" God yet other beliefs get a pass.

I think you didn't watch the whole video. Context.

Following this statement of sarcasm you have her saying, "Now seriously."

She was mocking the statements that Christians have made about it being awesome that atheists will burn in hell.

How does it feel when it's on the other side?

You don't like it very well do you.

If you watch the whole video you will clearly see that she says that anger is not violence.

She addresses the very things that many of you are doing here.

Atheists are intolerant and bigoted because we say we disagree.

We are bad because we study the science and have decided that evolution makes sense. It is not a belief no matter how many lies you continue to repeat. It is not an agenda. Atheists are not the majority of supporters of evolution.

Watch the whole video. You may not agree with all of it, but there is a lot of truth in what she presents.

[cardw]

This is a much less emotional, but much clearer description of why atheists find religion so reprehensible.

[BobRyan]

The speaker argues that if the Christian view is right then God is evil.

So fine - God creates mankind in a sinless, deathless, perfect eternal environment in Eden with full access to the tree of life and open communion with God and the Angels. Then God says that in paradise that there is only one rule of special concern - do not eat of the tree of knowledge of evil or else die. (So no "evil" in the garden of Eden ... no "evil" on earth).

Adam and Eve choose evil - and instead of killing them - God sends them out to make their own way - to live as they please - only to have them suffering disease and death in "this life" -- including Children.

Instead of leaving them like that God - offers the plan of salvation - offering to take the suffering of the 2nd death upon himself. Now that really has to make atheists "angry" (given the thread title.)

1. That is the first argument for the speaker.

2. The second argument is that 5 year olds that die - and happen to be in non-Christian families cannot go to heaven - but must go to hell due to the beliefs of their parents. Clearly the speaker never read Romans 2.

3. His third point is that no matter how good people are that choose to worship idols and false gods - their good deeds do not earn heaven. In the atheist model all people (except a few angry ones) are essentially good and should not be held accountable for any choices. Apparently. (The idea being that only evil nature, evil weather and inexplicable evil disease kill or harm people)

4.In the speaker's views the "choices of man have no consequence" therefore "God engineered and created the isolation ignorance and poor choice of idol worshipping nations" - because no choice against the laws of God - have any consequence (as is the much imagined case apparently for atheists)

5. The speaker argues that the world is filled with so much misery and suffering (albeit "atheist heaven") that it is obscene for a Christian living in an industrialized nation to claim answers to prayer - as if their choices in favor of the Law of God and actions opposed to rebellion against God "had consequences".

6. Another example given by the speaker is Israel vs the ("child sacrificing") Amalekites. In this example - God tells Abraham that he can not have any inheritance in the land of Caanan because the sins of the Amelekites are not yet complete. That pagan nation is given more time in "probation" to decide for themselves if they will continue in rebllion against God or not. Finally - 400 years later - that child-sacrificing nation is wiped out. (Hint to those in favor of aborting babies). In the eyes of CARDW's atheist speaker - that shows that god is evil.

in Christ,

Bob

[doug yowell]

I have nothing against Christians believing their beliefs. I love a good spiritual conversation with someone about their beliefs.

But nothing irritates me worse than someone coming to the privacy of my home, knocking on my door and basically telling me that I am not a good person. That I am lost and need to be saved. Second to that is people that can not DISCUSS spirituality but need to preach to you.

This is found mostly with Christians. I think that is part of what breeds that attitude. It is really unfair to the millions of devout Christians that quietly go about their lives trying to be close to their God without shoving it in others faces.

It's comments like these that I have so much difficulty understanding, EC. Since Christian beliefs REQUIRE that they love their neighbor as themselves, and the greater majority of the most evangelical Christians have once been in the same spiritual shoes you're in (he that has been forgiven much is he that loves much)and have had someone approach them in exactly the same way that they are approaching you, and most of those activists actually believe that what they believe is true and therefore don't want to see you share the predicted fate and lose out on the predicted reward (because they do care about you)how is it that you are irritated when they do what Christians are supposed to do while at the same time claiming that you have nothing against Christians believing what they believe? The fate of your soul is their business according to their own belief system (their brother's keeper)and they beloeve that there is a real judgment to come so what do you expect them to do if they really really believe what they claim to really really believe?? If their Boss told them to "Go and make disciples of men",are they better people if they don't?

[cardw]

3. His third point is that no matter how good people are that choose to worship idols and false gods - their good deeds do not earn heaven. In the atheist model all people (except a few angry ones) are essentially good and should not be held accountable for any choices. Apparently. (The idea being that only evil nature, evil weather and inexplicable evil disease kill or harm people)

Bob,

This is why atheists are winning the war of ideas.

I have no idea what you are rambling about here.

[BobRyan]

1. Surely you have heard Christians talk about the sinful nature before or the issue of "depravity" mentioned in Romans 3. Are you saying that this principle should result in "no harm" in such areas as genocide, human slave trafficking, oppression, war, crime, cults?

2. How is it that your claim to not following this - is some kind of proof that atheists would "win the war of ideas"?

BTW -- there is only one way atheists win any kind of war of anything - and that is through the by-faith alone doctrines of evolutionism - which as Darwin, Dawkins, Meyers, Provine, Reese, Susskind (and even our own Ellen White) point out - are distinctively atheist.

in Christ,

Bob

[cardw]

1. Surely you have heard Christians talk about the sinful nature before or the issue of "depravity" mentioned in Romans 3. Are you saying that this principle should result in "no harm" in such areas as genocide, human slave trafficking, oppression, war, crime, cults?

[Overaged]

Doug; all I know is that "I love the Lord because He has heard my voice." (Ps 116:1) Your arguments here are kind of strange; I would have trouble using them anywhere.

(1 John 1:1-3)

Quote:

Psa 116:1 I love the LORD for hearing me, for listening to my prayers.

Psa 116:2 Yes, he paid attention to me, so I will always call to him whenever I need help.

Psa 116:3 Death's ropes were around me. The grave was closing in on me. I was worried and afraid.

Psa 116:4 Then I called on the LORD'S name. I said, "LORD, save me!"

Psa 116:5 The LORD is good and merciful; our God is so kind.

Psa 116:6 The LORD takes care of helpless people. I was without help, and he saved me. (ERV)

[Overaged]

quote=Amelia]

Quote:

the author talks about the idea of atheists ever having the opportunity to "dig up Jesus Christ so that we can crucify him all over again.. that would be really awesome" )

/quote]

A rather hateful thing to say. Do atheists feel the same about Muhammad? Buddah? Krishna? etc. Or is it just Jesus and Christians they would like to see crucified? The reason I ask is; the few atheists I know speak violenlty against christians and "their" God yet other beliefs get a pass.

I think you didn't watch the whole video. Context.

Following this statement of sarcasm you have her saying, "Now seriously."

She was mocking the statements that Christians have made about it being awesome that atheists will burn in hell.

How does it feel when it's on the other side?

You don't like it very well do you.

If you watch the whole video you will clearly see that she says that anger is not violence.

She addresses the very things that many of you are doing here.

Atheists are intolerant and bigoted because we say we disagree.

We are bad because we study the science and have decided that evolution makes sense. It is not a belief no matter how many lies you continue to repeat. It is not an agenda. Atheists are not the majority of supporters of evolution.

Watch the whole video. You may not agree with all of it, but there is a lot of truth in what she presents.

cardw; most Christians who are well grounded would not be bothered at all if you, or anyone you refer us to, were to say we were going to "burn in hell;" or any such thing.

I know, for me personally, it doesn't bother me one bit. Don't stereotype the whole group just to make a good argument. Many of us are much different than what you describe.