I have a question regarding liberals...

[olger]

It is curious to me to observe the almost universal support that liberals offer to Islam in the name of "tolerance." Here is what puzzles me:

If Sharia Law (high-level absolutism) were to be passed in the United States, liberal idealogy and then liberals themselves would be ultimately killed.

Sharia law would destroy:

Feminists

Homesexuals

Hollywood entertainment

Immorality

Drinkers and drug abusers

Are liberals that shortsighted that they will support that which would ultimately kill them? I welcome your input.

`G

[phkrause]

It is curious to me to observe the almost universal support that liberals offer to Islam in the name of "tolerance." Here is what puzzles me:

If Sharia Law (high-level absolutism) were to be passed in the United States, liberal idealogy and then liberals themselves would be ultimately killed.

Sharia law would destroy:

Feminists

Homesexuals

Hollywood entertainment

Immorality

Drinkers and drug abusers

Are liberals that shortsighted that they will support that which would ultimately kill them? I welcome your input.

`G

First off I see no full liberals or full conservatives on C/A! Unless you'd like to name those that you think are one or the other?? What I'm seeing or maybe I should say hearing, is that those that back the democratic party are liberals and those that back the republican party are conservative? I don't agree with that. Secondly, sharia law will never happen, and I think you know that!!! Thirdly I'm guessing you really believe that your list above, are represented by only liberals????? I don't think so!!!! Feminists are only liberal? Homosexuals are only liberals? Hollywood actors are only liberal? That would mean Clint Eastwood, Your favorite President, etc. are liberals and not your label, conservative!!!!!!!!!! All drinkers and drug abusers are liberal??? OK you believe what you want but I can assure you that's not true by any means of the imagination. And Fourthly, than by your definition we should also not be Christians, because eventually we will also be killed for our beliefs. Or is that not really true?????

[olger]

Not referring to the Club, Pk. Referring to America.

Shalom.

`G

[olger]

Paul,

Do you dispute that the Democratic party has taken up the cause of:

Feminism

Gay rights

Environmentalism

Labor Unions?

Don't even bother, friend. While aberrant cases may exist, the great thrust of liberalism has each of these four vices as its platform, and is profoundly buttressed by Hollywood, Acedemia, and the mainstream media (86% of whom vote democrat).

Sharia law would have zero tolerance for the aforementioned platforms. Feminism? Heads would roll. Homosexuality? Stones and more stones.

Again, I am puzzled that Democrats seem to pander to Islam through political-correctness and outright support. Suicidal tendencies?

Of course Islams hate Christians. They hate Jews too, friend. I accept that as a reality I can't change.

Rejoice always,

`G

[Bravus]

If you're really interested, I'll have a bash at a fuller explanation when I get back from class, in about 3 hours.

[olger]

I was hoping for a more objective and cerebral response.

:)

[Neil D]

Paul,

Do you dispute that the Democratic party has taken up the cause of:

Feminism

Gay rights

Environmentalism

Labor Unions?

Don't even bother, friend. While aberrant cases may exist, the great thrust of liberalism has each of these four vices as its platform, and is profoundly buttressed by Hollywood, Acedemia, and the mainstream media (86% of whom vote democrat).

Sharia law would have zero tolerance for the aforementioned platforms. Feminism? Heads would roll. Homosexuality? Stones and more stones.

Again, I am puzzled that Democrats seem to pander to Islam through political-correctness and outright support. Suicidal tendencies?

Of course Islams hate Christians. They hate Jews too, friend. I accept that as a reality I can't change.

Rejoice always,

`G

Dispute those causes? I think democrats dispute the fairness of some of those things..when it comes to "feminism", a fair wage for equal work is something that comes to mind. For women to be bra-less, ego centric meglomaniacs, absolutely not.

Enviromentalism issues needs to go thru many different levels/committes to be approved.

Gay rights issues are another platform that needs to go thru many different levels/committees before approval. Civil Unions have a much better chance of being ratified than Gay marriage without challenge of the supreme court.

Labor Unions support a middle class income. Many of thier issues support communitees better than churches do. Regardless of what EGW says about the evils of Unions, they do support communities.

As for Sharia Law, there are no examples of Sharia Law being used in the US. It can not happen here. Liberals will not tolerate hatred of any sort. So, where ever you are getting your info on Sharia Law being used within the US, it's either outright propoganda or it dis-information put out by news organizations who purpose is to fighten US conservatives...

[Bravus]

I was hoping for a more objective and cerebral response.

Not sure how to interpret that. If it means you only want to hear about what liberals think from conservatives, I think you may be badly disappointed... unless all you want is to have your existing prejudices confirmed.

If your question was a genuine question, I'm willing to put in the time on a genuine answer.

Otherwise, no.

[Tom Wetmore]

I was hoping for a more objective and cerebral response.

If the question is truly objective and cerebral, that hope might be more easily realized...

If not, you get what you ask for.

Here is the fallacy of the question - things are more complex, nuanced, varied than the apparent simplistic and partisan assumptions behind the question.

As already noted, conservative vs liberal, Republican vs. Democrat are not so neatly pigeon-holed into monotone and narrow categories as this little partisan labeling game assumes.

Tolerance of Islam is more than being about Sharia law. Learn what the First Amendment is all about.

Not all Muslims are alike, any more than all Americans are alike.

And Islam is more than and more varied than Sharia law. Muslims are not united in their view and use of Sharia law, meaning that Sharia law is not as simplistic and universally accepted, understood or applied by Muslims as the question assumes.

Start here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

[olger]

At current reproduction rates, muslims will become majority in several countries. When that happens, will they turn Sharia?

Who is to stop them?

[olger]

I forgot one. Liberals are also big abortion supporters.

"Do not kill your children for fear of poverty for it is We who shall provide sustenance for you as well as for them." (Surah, Al-An' am, 6:151).

[Tom Wetmore]

There is a big difference between being an "abortion supporter" and being pro-choice. Most so-called liberals and a significant percentage of conservatives and Republicans are pro-choice but clearly not "abortion supporters". It is a very small percentage from anywhere on the political spectrum that can be accurately described as truly "pro-abortion" or "abortion supporters".

Of course as we have seen elsewhere, those who choose to throw such misnomers around also tend to fail to truly live up to the fullest meaning of "pro-life". GIven their own narrow concept of the term as being only or primarily about being anti-abortion, it should come as little surprise that they believe or willfully mislabel those that favor freedom of choice and freedom of conscience as being pro-abortion. (It is the same narrow-minded ignorance or willful disregard for facts and truthfulness that assumes or promotes/circulates the false information that Planned Parenthood is only or even primarily about abortion.)

[Tom Wetmore]

...

"Do not kill your children for fear of poverty for it is We who shall provide sustenance for you as well as for them." (Surah, Al-An' am, 6:151).

While I do not claim to be a scholar on Islamic writings, I would question whether that passage is actually speaking of abortion as implied by your post. It would seem that it is speaking of children already born but more importantly stands for the affirmative obligation of the community taking care of the poor or faith in God's providence. (Of course that would seem to militate against growing sentiment among certain conservatives not favoring community help to the poor...)

As for the Islamic view of abortion, you might want to rethink your simplistic assumptions -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_abortion

or

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/islamethics/abortion_1.shtml

or

http://www.islamawareness.net/FamilyPlanning/Abortion/abortion3.html

[SivartM]

At current reproduction rates, muslims will become majority in several countries. When that happens, will they turn Sharia?

Who is to stop them?

The abortion-loving liberals can save us all by aborting all the Muslim babies, of course.

Or we could let Muslims exist in peace if they return the same courtesy, which most of them (that is, most of the 1 billion Muslims on the planet) do.

[lazarus]

As someone who grew up in a community with many Muslims and knew them as neighborhood and school friends my experience is quite different from those whose only experience is through the media. I have often found that those who harbor the deepest of prejudices have spent little time with those that they most heavily criticize.

As has been previously mentioned there is a wide diversity of opinion and practice within Islam. My neighbor's family were quite secular but our friend a few streets away strictly adhered to their Moslem faith. The husband of our children's ministry department is a Moslem and is in church every Sabbath. On Ramadan he cooks for his Muslim friends. He's from Nigeria and takes a dim view of Sharia.

Quote:

Of course Islams hate Christians. They hate Jews too, friend. I accept that as a reality I can't change

I'm assuming the above statement was not a joke. It is quite stunning in it's ignorance and therefore it would lead me to question the point of trying to have a sensible discussion.

It's weird how this kind of stuff festers in seemingly intelligent minds.

In the UK the use of Sharia law has been a hot topic but nevertheless an interesting. Local authorities have allowed Muslim communities to resolve issues amongst themselves using Sharia law in ways that do not directly conflict with civil law which can be costly and lengthy. Both parties have to agree to the process.

Of course there have been outcries in the UK as we see in the US.

There has been a tradition of allowing Jewish and Muslim communities to apply their "law" in situations where it would be beneficial for the parties and the community involved.

[Bravus]

What the 'question' in the OP seems to boil down to is "there are some apparent conflicts within the set of irrational prejudices, poorly correlated with and untroubled by truth and reality, that I hold. Rather than seek to test my prejudices, I will turn these apparent conflicts into another stick with which to beat liberals, and reject any clarifications they offer".

Of course, since its a stick made of horse feathers, the beating doesn't hurt.

[phkrause]

What the 'question' in the OP seems to boil down to is "there are some apparent conflicts within the set of irrational prejudices, poorly correlated with and untroubled by truth and reality, that I hold. Rather than seek to test my prejudices, I will turn these apparent conflicts into another stick with which to beat liberals, and reject any clarifications they offer".

Of course, since its a stick made of horse feathers, the beating doesn't hurt.

[lazarus]

Of course, since its a stick made of horse feathers, the beating doesn't hurt.

Indeed.

[Tom Wetmore]

[Dr. Shane]

As has been previously mentioned there is a wide diversity of opinion and practice within Islam.

The big question is quite simple. If there exists such a wide diversity within Islam (as I believe there does), why do we not see moderate and/or liberal Muslim condemning radicals like we see going on in the Christian community? When Christian radicals, like Reverend Jeremiah "G*d-damn-America" Wright, go off the rails, other Christian leaders are quick to condemn such radicalism.

[Tom Wetmore]

As someone who grew up in a community with many Muslims and knew them as neighborhood and school friends my experience is quite different from those whose only experience is through the media. I have often found that those who harbor the deepest of prejudices have spent little time with those that they most heavily criticize. ...

Quite true. Having lived and worked in the largest Muslim country, Indonesia, for a year and visited it several times since, my experience in living among Muslims was quite the same as you describe.

[phkrause]

The big question is quite simple. If there exists such a wide diversity within Islam (as I believe there does), why do we not see moderate and/or liberal Muslim condemning radicals like we see going on in the Christian community? When Christian radicals, like Reverend Jeremiah "G*d-damn-America" Wright, go off the rails, other Christian leaders are quick to condemn such radicalism.

That's because in USofA Christians have nothing to fear, but most Muslims are afraid to say anything one way or the other, for fear of reprisils(sp) either from their own or from others outside their own.

[Bravus]

http://www.bravus.com/blog/?p=1772

[Stan]

I would have no problem having a muslim for a neighbour. OR many of them

[olger]

The abortion-loving liberals can save us all by aborting all the Muslim babies, of course.

That's amazing!!