Neil D Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Tuesday, May 3, 2005 Posted: 4:38 PM EDT (2038 GMT) story.us.troops.ap.jpg According to a recent poll, most Americans do not believe going to war in Iraq was worth it. WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A majority of Americans do not believe it was worth going to war in Iraq, a national poll reported Tuesday. Fifty-seven percent of those polled said they did not believe it was worth going to war, versus 41 percent who said it was, according to a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 1,006 adults. That was a drop in support from February, when 48 percent said it was worth going to war and half said it was not. It's also the highest percentage of respondents who have expressed those feelings and triple the percentage of Americans who said that it was not worth the cost shortly after the war began about two years ago. The new poll question, asked by telephone on April 29-May 1, had a margin of error of plus or minus 5 percentage points. Asked how things are going for the United States in Iraq, 56 percent said "badly" or "very badly," up from 45 percent in March. Forty-two percent said "well" or "very well," down from 52 percent in March. The margin of error for that question was plus or minus 3 percentage points. Americans appeared evenly divided over whether the decision to send U.S. troops to Iraq was a mistake, with 49 percent saying yes and 48 percent saying no. The sampling error was plus or minus 5 points. Early Tuesday, the U.S. military found the body of a pilot from one of two missing Marine Corps F/A-18 jets that Navy officials believe collided while flying in operations in Iraq. (Full story) The number of U.S. troops who have died in the Iraq war stands at 1,587, according to the military. A poll conducted in February showed that the January 30 Iraqi elections produced a bump in President Bush's approval rating. In that poll, 55 percent of Americans said the Iraq war was not a mistake. (Full story) Political negotiations since then have delayed the formation of a new government. But on Tuesday, Iraqi politicians were putting the finishing touches on the nation's new Cabinet, with Shiite Arab leader Ibrahim al-Jaafari sworn in as prime minister. More than 100 Iraqis, most of them security forces and civilians, have died in insurgent attacks since last Thursday, when Iraq's transitional National Assembly approved a partial Cabinet list. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Most are not informed. How many read the newspaper everyday? How many watch a nightly newscast everyday? About the only time Americans get informed on the issues are when an election is close. Even then it is only about 50% that typically vote and not all of them are informed. For example, I bet if a poll was taken, the majority of Americans do not know that President Putin of Russia warned President Bush that Saddam was planning an attack on US soil using WMDs and terrorists. I bet less than 10% of Americans actually know that. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted May 9, 2005 Author Share Posted May 9, 2005 Quote: For example, I bet if a poll was taken, the majority of Americans do not know that President Putin of Russia warned President Bush that Saddam was planning an attack on US soil using WMDs and terrorists. I bet less than 10% of Americans actually know that. What does this question have to do with,,,,, [:"blue"] * More than 100 Iraqis, most of them security forces and civilians, have died in insurgent attacks since last Thursday, * Early Tuesday, the U.S. military found the body of a pilot from one of two missing Marine Corps F/A-18 jets that Navy officials believe collided while flying in operations in Iraq. *The number of U.S. troops who have died in the Iraq war stands at 1,587, according to the military. *Political negotiations since then have delayed the formation of a new government.[/] I see a distrust of the American people in your understanding us, Shane....Shame that you can't trust the masses to make the right decision.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 If folks like you had been in power 60 years ago the Nazis would control Europe. Freedom isn't free. To those who defended it, freedom has a meaning the protected will never know. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Quote: If folks like you had been in power 60 years ago the Nazis would control Europe. IOWs, attack the messager....Silly, Shane...Not logical nor practical... Quote: To those who defended it, freedom has a meaning the protected will never know. This is NOT true, no matter how many times you say it Shane....Simply not true... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Folks like you can't handle to see soldiers die but the blood of the innocent (i.e. abortions in America/Jews in Gemany) don't bother you. As I said, if folks like you had been in power, Nazis would control Europe. Regardless how much you want to deny it, to those who defended it, freedom has a meaning the protected will never know. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Quote: Folks like you can't handle to see soldiers die but the blood of the innocent (i.e. abortions in America/Jews in Gemany) don't bother you. Shane, I see innocent and guilty die and live and suffer every day...I work in a hospital enviorment. Bevin sees these in the streets. You have absolutely NO credibility with this statement. Quote: Regardless how much you want to deny it, to those who defended it, freedom has a meaning the protected will never know. To those who hold this view, and perport it's validity, will never know the appreciation nor understand our gratitude. But we do know the meaning of freedom regardless of this supposed superior experience of life. Truely, pride goes before the fall... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> I see innocent and guilty die and live and suffer every day... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> And I care more than you do. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Quote: Quote: I see innocent and guilty die and live and suffer every day... And I care more than you do. Tit for tat, Shane...What is this? Where do you get off for saying something like this? How do you compare that you care more than I? Can you truely say that you have dedicated your life to the saving of others? If so, where is the evidence of that? Talking about it? Surely talking about it is nothing more than talk....And for you to mention it here is surely off topic..see the title of the thread. No, Shane, talk does not prove that one cares more than another. If time shows evidence of caring, then why are you not a doctor? or at least a medical worker 24/7/365? Surely, 8-12 hours a day shows dedication to saving lives, even if you do get paid for it. Caring is dedicated energy spent in the saving of all lives, not only the unborn of parents who desire it, but also of the aged, when family says that any measure must be taken to save Grandfather. And what about the patient inbetween who is overweight 30ish, with a heart defect? Is the doctor who does the operation any more caring than the nurse who nurses the patient back to health, or the respiratory therapist who monitors the breathing machine while the man is tubed? Is an ambulance driver any more caring during the heart attack than the doctor who releives the pain at the ER? Is a person who educates more caring than a medical worker? Is a person who does books more caring than medical worker? Quite frankly, Shane, you are making assurtions that you can not back up with good evidence... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> How do you compare that you care more than I? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> Sorry that I didn't state the obvious. I want to protect the more than 1 million lives snuffed out in the US every year and you don't. I can hear their cries. You can't. I care. You don't. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Quote: Sorry that I didn't state the obvious. I want to protect the more than 1 million lives snuffed out in the US every year and you don't. I can hear their cries. You can't. I care. You don't. Interesting point of view....You talk,...I do...You complain...I work... Sorry, Shane, but talk is cheap.... Do something about it! And just remember, every medical worker has a minimum 15 years to what ever you put out there. You got a long way to go before you can and should say anything. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Quote: Sorry that I didn't state the obvious. I want to protect the more than 1 million lives snuffed out in the US every year and you don't. How much time and money did you put into this cause so far this year? /Bevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lambert Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Vox Populi Vex Dei. The majority as usual are wrong. Too many people tend to be self-absorbed, unable to grasp the true importance of principles and abstractions such as freedom and democracy and the moral imperative to overthrow tyrants and end the oppression and violence being done to anyone, anywhere. Too many hide behind the human fiction of nationhood to avoid their moral responsibility to their fellow man everywhere on earth, to intervene and deliver them from the evil of despots and despotic systems that victimizes people. Anyone who refuses to see his own personal moral responsibility to fight with every means he has to end the needless suffering of his brothers and sisters anywhere and everywhere on earth, does not deserve to have freedom and the protection of civilized law himself. All who fail to see the need and rightness of our intervention in Iraq do not deserve to be Americans, or to live in any peaceful society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 If I understand the Brother Neil and Bevin correctly, they are saying the more time and money I give to the local Pregnancy Crisis Center, the more valuable my opinion about abortion is. While I do support the local Preganancy Crisis Center, I do not think that has any bearing on the value of my position on abortion. I do what I feel the Spirit of God leading me to do and pray for Him to forgive my failings. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Nope - could not care less about the value of your opinion. You said "I want to protect the more than 1 million lives snuffed out in the US every year and you don't." I was simply trying to understand how much actual protection your "want to protect" feeling is causing you to provide. /Bevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted May 11, 2005 Moderators Share Posted May 11, 2005 So Ron, is Saudi Arabia next? Lots of oppression there, so under your doctrine they should be in line for a righteous conquering any day now. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 We shouldn't make anyone feel they can't make a difference. In a democracy each of us can make a difference. One of the big ways we make a difference is by sharing our convictions with those we come into contact with. The best way to do that is to become informed ourselves. Let's look at the issue of abortion for a moment. As much as the anti-war crowd hates to think about it. Many more lives perish each year due to abortion than war. One shouldn't feel that just because they do not work in the medical field they can do nothing about little babies being sucked out of their mothers' wombs. Just by letting others know our convictions and the reasons we believe such is doing something. By electing pro-life canidates to office laws can be made to discourage abortion and judges can be appointed and confirmed that will allow such laws to remain. On a more personal level, money can be donated to pro-life organizations, political campaigns of pro-life canidates and Pregnancy Crisis Centers. One can volunteer at Pregnancy Crisis Centers. Baby clothing, strollers and car seats can also be donated to these centers to help mothers that choose life for their babies. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> is Saudi Arabia next? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> I would say we need to nuke Iran and North Korea first. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Then park our subs off the coast of Sudan and see if they are interested in diplomacy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Worry about Saudi Arabia after we are no longer dependant on thier oil. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bevin Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 So your actual actions towards helping stop abortions is an occassional cheer for a politician who may vote to make it illegal. Not, for example, to decrease the social conditions that cause the unwanted pregnancies in the first place. /Bevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 No, please reread my post, pray about it, come back tomorrow and see if you understand any more. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 I don't see us freeing Africans caught in tribal wars for years. There is much suffering there, but we turn our heads to helping in that situation. North Korea is a country with known nuclear weapons, and people who are oppressed, but we do nothing there again. Please tell me how we free people pick and choose who to help. What is our true motivation? Helping oppressed people, or is there some other not stated reason we are in the middle of a mess in the middle east. K Quote Proverbs 15:15 He that is of a merry heart hath a continual feast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted May 12, 2005 Author Share Posted May 12, 2005 Quote: If I understand the Brother Neil and Bevin correctly, they are saying the more time and money I give to the local Pregnancy Crisis Center, the more valuable my opinion about abortion is. No, that is NOT what was said. You need to reread your "caring" statements. I mearly pointed out that if you truely cared, you would have dedicated your life, not just your time, but your whole life to caring...Nurses, and other medical workers truely care about people, in the fullest sense of the word. Your comments that you care more than I do not mesh with your life work, Shane. So, in that a sense, you are a hypocrite,,, and you are prone to exageration. Quote: While I do support the local Preganancy Crisis Center, I do not think that has any bearing on the value of my position on abortion. I do what I feel the Spirit of God leading me to do and pray for Him to forgive my failings. Frankly, Shane, you have twisted my comments and have not saught to understand them. You are behaving like the Rush Limbaughs and twisted wording/thoughts around to the Republican viewpoint with a vengence....Only people who hate do that. It is a form of bearing false witness. But you knew that, didn't you? - Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> I mearly pointed out that if you truely cared, you would have dedicated your life, not just your time, but your whole life to caring... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> By such reasoning you judge me. You are wrong. Would you also say that all who voted in favor of war in order to free the slaves did not care about the slaves because they had not dedicated their entire lives to freeing them? That is erroring logic. </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Your comments that you care more than I do not mesh with your life work <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> One error in your thinking leads to another. Should one conclude that because I build schools I care more about education than you? Should one conclude that becuase I build hospitals I care more about healthcare workers' safety during disasters (fire, earthquake, hurricane) than you? Obviously not. </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> you are a hypocrite <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> You judge me. The way a Christian should talk is, "It seems to me, you are a hypocrite." or "You appear to be a hypocrit." or "I think you maybe a hypocrit." or even "I believe you are a hyprocrit." Since we are sinners and subject to being wrong we can state how things seem or appear to us but we should stop short of judging others based on such persecptions. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Please tell me how we free people pick and choose who to help. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> It is obviously a judgement call but is based on national security. Every administrations has its critics so don't let them spin you like a little toy. Remember the Clinton Administration was criticised for going to war with Bosnia (without UN approval) when he did nothing in Rwanda. Sometimes the logic fails us. Personally, from what I know, I am disappointed we (the US) hasn't done more about the situation in Sudan. Not only is it a humanitaran disaster, but it is also a hot bed for radical Islam and a terrorist haven. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted May 12, 2005 Author Share Posted May 12, 2005 Quote: By such reasoning you judge me. "I judge you"???? What do you call the statement "I care more than you"? I call it assinine and an attempt to show the superiority of your supposedly 'enlightened' moral values. All I did was follow thru on the logic of careing and dedication of an individual. YOU were the one that insisted that YOU cared MORE than others. I merely compared YOU to the dedication of those who do care, and YOUR life came up short. Quote: That is erroring logic. Ok, show how you measure "care", Shane, in the life of an individual? Logic dictates that one who cares dedicates his life to that object in which s/he is devoted to...The classic example is nurses, they care for the individuals in hospitals, they care for people outside of hospitals, in homes, ect. A primary componet to being a nurse is caring. Since you care about abortion, then you need to care about abortion. Your life needs to reflect that. The fact that one can be arrested for practicing civil-disobedience shows that you care about a law on the books, but not necessarily for the people having abortions. A nurse, OTOH, can care for the women having an abortion, and respect their right to choose. Nurses still care. But what can you point to that says that you truely care more than I? Talk is cheap and it is a poor substitute for true caring. Quote: Should one conclude that because I build schools I care more about education than you? No, you care about the safety of the school building or the safety of the children around school buildings, but not education. Quote: By such reasoning you judge me. Again, not true...based upon what you have posted, I merely stated the obvious... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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