Overaged Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 “Lay the axe at the root of the tree, not at the fruit.!” Yes! Tell me what you have been doing to solve this problem! If you are not doing everything which needs to be done, I will not condemn you for your limitations. I will rather encourage you to continue doing what the Lord has gifted you for. Nic; in order for a person to have a valid opinion on this topic; it does not follow that "doing something" must be a prerequisite. There are many valid reasons why some would not be able to do something, and that would not discount the soundness of their opinion at all. I hope thats not what you are insinuating here. The point about not laying the axe to the fruit is still well-taken. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 pkrause wrote: “I disagree that we need pro-lifers, what we need is people that will stand up for what's right.” You lost me here! I see the work of Adventist pro-lifers and doing what is right as synonyms. You see them as poles apart. Either you or I must be from Mars! Pro-lifers speak in defense of the unborn, while pro-choice do the opposite and favor the killing of the innocents. Can you help me understand your thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Overaged wrote: “The point about not laying the axe to the fruit is still well-taken.” The root of the abortion problem is adultery, fornication, our sinful nature, our love of our lifestyle, our disregard of God’s Law, our fear of the future, our lack of faith that God can provide for what he wants us to do. If you disagree with the views I have expressed, then tell me what is your understanding of what is the root of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 28, 2012 Members Share Posted March 28, 2012 Sorry but I disagree. God created us with choice. The "pro" in front of whatever is irrelevant to me. Your either for life or not, by choice, period. Man made labels don't impress me. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Sorry but I disagree. God created us with choice. The "pro" in front of whatever is irrelevant to me. Your either for life or not, by choice, period. Man made labels don't impress me. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yes, we were created with the right to make wrong choices, but there are dreadful consequences for choosing against God's will. He knows what's best for us and for those we love. When a driver decides to enter the freeway where the exit is located, he is placing himself and the lives of others in serious danger. When a man commits adultery, he is risking loosing his wife and places his children at great disadvantage. Choosing between good and evil is a serious business. What God wants us to freely choose is between two or more desirable options like broccoli and asparagus—not between healing and killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yes, we were created with the right to make wrong choices, but there are dreadful consequences for choosing against God's will. He knows what's best for us and for those we love. When a driver decides to enter the freeway where the exit is located, he is placing himself and the lives of others in serious danger. When a man commits adultery, he is risking loosing his wife and places his children at great disadvantage. Those may be natural consequences but let's not overlook the promise of Divine punishment for our wrong choices. Most of those who appeal to choice neglect to add this aspect.The choice to kill their unborn child may be the final piece of evidence in their eternal trial.The choice to support another's "right" to do it may incur a stiffer sentence.Adolf Eichmann made a choice, and while he may not have actually shot anyone himself, he paid for that choice with his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Sorry but I disagree. God created us with choice. The "pro" in front of whatever is irrelevant to me. Your either for life or not, by choice, period. Man made labels don't impress me. When you put "pro" in front of something, it just means you are for that something. I am pro Carolina Panther, because I like, or am for the panthers. (even though they don't win) When somebody says they are pro-choice, that means they believe you should be able to choose to kill your own unborn baby. Or somebody else's. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Originally Posted By: pkrause Sorry but I disagree. God created us with choice. The "pro" in front of whatever is irrelevant to me. Your either for life or not, by choice, period. Man made labels don't impress me. When you put "pro" in front of something, it just means you are for that something. I am pro Carolina Panther, because I like, or am for the panthers. (even though they don't win) When somebody says they are pro-choice, that means they believe you should be able to choose to kill your own unborn baby. Or somebody else's. Hope that helps. A definition rarely noted, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Quote: When somebody says they are pro-choice, that means they believe you should be able to choose to kill your own unborn baby. Or somebody else's. If that is true - then I have to conclude that God is "pro-choice". Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 ....and he's safe at third.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 30, 2012 Members Share Posted March 30, 2012 Yes, we were created with the right to make wrong choices, but there are dreadful consequences for choosing against God's will. He knows what's best for us and for those we love. When a driver decides to enter the freeway where the exit is located, he is placing himself and the lives of others in serious danger. When a man commits adultery, he is risking loosing his wife and places his children at great disadvantage. Choosing between good and evil is a serious business. What God wants us to freely choose is between two or more desirable options like broccoli and asparagus—not between healing and killing. Exactly, all choice's have consequence's, so what's the problem? Again I don't need "pro" in front of anything to tell me what's right or wrong. So if someone is for choice they are automatically hell bound? Because? What? Oh I think I know! They must be for death!! Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Quote: When somebody says they are pro-choice, that means they believe you should be able to choose to kill your own unborn baby. Or somebody else's. If that is true - then I have to conclude that God is "pro-choice". Why did He add coercion to that pro-choice ideal by saying things like, "...choose life", and "Thou shalt not murder', and "the soul that sinneth,it shall die","I came that they may have life..." "the wages of sin is death"? "I have no pleasure in the (choice of) death of the wicked." God does not allow for sin to go unpunished unlike the pro-choice to abort position. Do laws prohibiting evil prohibit choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Does God allow us to choose no matter how dreadful the consequences? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Yes, he does. Look at Adam and Eve, King David, and Judas. They did make terrible choices and were free to make them. The consequences were awful as well. Sometimes I wonder whether King David, considering the sorry events that followed after his adultery, might have wondered whether it would have been better for him if the Lord had imposed on him the death penalty for his sin with Bathsheba. When our church decided to permit our own hospitals to profit from the elective abortion business back in 1970, this was a wrong choice, and the Lord did not intervene. Now we see the results with our church not growing in North Amnerican, while the opposite is taking place in other parts of the world. This is why, I believe, that it is a good idea for us to sign the petition. If our church were to publicly acknowledge the mistake we made back in 1970, this would energize the church like nothing else could. I used to give Bible studies to Catholics. This I cannot do today. How can I tell a Catholic to recognize the Fourth Commandment of God's Law, if we Adventists have no respect for the Sixth One? If you agree with me that it was wrong for our leaders to allow abortions on demand in our own hospitals, please consider signing the petitions. It would help our church move in the right direction again! Here is the link to my own Petition: Petition: Stop & Apologize for Elective Abortions in Adventist Hospitals http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stop-apologize-for-elective-abortions-in/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 This is why, I believe, that it is a good idea for us to sign the petition. If our church were to publicly acknowledge the mistake we made back in 1970, this would energize the church like nothing else could. Along with that acknowledgment we would have to revamp church policies regarding our hospitals and official proclamations,i.e. the "Guidelines". That's the difference between acknowledgment and repentance. It would be nice to get this thing behind us so we could move forward with our complete message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Quote: Yes, he does. Sounds to me like you and He would make an excellent "pro-choice" member then. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 That's the difference between acknowledgment and repentance. It would be nice to get this thing behind us so we could move forward with our complete message. That's not going to happen, sorry to say. But signing the petition won't hurt you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Quote: Yes, he does. Sounds to me like you and He would make an excellent "pro-choice" member then. A trio would be better, and a choir or an orchestra would be best of all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 That's not going to happen, sorry to say. But signing the petition won't hurt you. That is what I said when Ronald Reagan said to Gorbachow: "Tear this wall!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 That would be great if you were right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 That would be great if you were right. When Jesus died on the cross, the hope of his followers died as well. This is evident by the declaration of the two disciples on the way to Emmaus: "But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel.” The situation might seem hopeless, but Jesus is not dead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 That would be great if you were right. When Jesus died on the cross, the hope of his followers died as well. This is evident by the declaration of the two disciples on the way to Emmaus: "But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel.” The situation might seem hopeless, but Jesus is not dead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: RLH That would be great if you were right. When Jesus died on the cross, the hope of his followers died as well. This is evident by the declaration of the two disciples on the way to Emmaus: "But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel.” The situation might seem hopeless, but Jesus is not dead! Thanks for the encouragement Nic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Samojluk Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Thanks for the encouragement Nic. You're welcome. By the way, did you sign the petiion asking the church leadership to aplogize for its participaion in the elective abortion business? If you haven't, here is the link again! Petition: Stop & Apologize for Elective Abortions in Adventist Hospitals http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stop-apologize-for-elective-abortions-in/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.