What is your church doing for Easter?

[OzarkWoman]

We are called to honor what is sacred.

The death and resurrection of Christ was certainly sacred.

Those that don't feel it is sacred - will call it pagan and that is their belief and right.

I never said anything about the resurrrection not being holy or sacred, just that Easter as it is celebrated throughout happens to be Pagan.

[Woody]

Quote:

Easter as it is celebrated throughout happens to be Pagan.

I suppose it depends upon whom you hang out with.

I think you might like to see how we celebrate Easter in my church.

[John317]

Ellen White instructed us that the resurrection was indeed sacred ... we as SDAs did not make it holy on our own. God told her is was indeed holy:

"The sacred facts of Christ’s resurrection were immortalized." {CTr 286.3}

Your quote is accurate and well taken, but there's no biblical or historical connection between the resurrection of Christ and the celebration of Easter, any more than there is between Christmas and Christ's birth. I agree that there can be some good done by drawing people's attention to Christ during those times, but we shouldn't be under any illusion that Easter is a valid holiday of the Christian Church. It isn't. The only way that the Bible commands His followers to celebrate His death and resurrection is by means of the memorial supper and baptism.

1 Cor. 11: 23-26 says,

For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, [24] and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." [25] In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." [26] For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

And: Romans 6:4

We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

Col. 2:12

having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

[Woody]

And you also are right. We are not instructed as to which day is appropriate to honor what is indeed holy. Therefore - I find no fault in whatever day we might choose or not choose.

To each his own I suppose.

I see the issue the same as Christmas. For sure it is not a requirement to honor His birth on Dec. 25 just as it is not a requirement to honor His death at easter.

But for sure we don't have to be so legalistic as to say that since there is no requirement - we are not going to do it !!!

[Kevin H]

Did you know how Easter was cellebrated by the pagans? The main god would be taken out of the city and there would be a presession of the god going to his temple and taking his reign.

The King would dress in a linen ephod and would dance before the god, the bearers of the god would walk 6 paces and the King would sacrfice an ox and a fatling. Then once in the place of worship the king would offer burnt offerings and peace offerings before the god then the king would bless the people in the name of the god and give to the people a cake of bread and one of dates and one of raisins (also known as hot crossed buns) then the people were to go to their homes to be blessed (i.e. to conseve children). The king was to go to the queen and if she conseved a child on Easter that child would be the heir to the throne. If a child was not conseved on this day then the other sons would fight each other off to see who becomes the next king.

We see in 2 Samuel 6 King David doing the same types of things that the pagans did on Easter Sunday, and because Michal would not be with David, we find that starting the stories about how Soloman became king.

Now I am not 100% positive about this, but I am 90% sure, if memory serves me correct from school, it would be Easter that the king would sleep in the temple of the god and expect to have a very important dream telling the events of the future and would want to have his wisemen interpet the dream for him.

So as we remember the pagan aspects of Easter, we can also remember David bringing the ark of the covenant into Jerusalem, and know some of the background of the story about Michal and how that leads into the story of Absolom's rebellion and the story that continues into how Soloman became king.

And also we can remember this weekend Pharaoh's dream of the grain and sheep and Joseph coming out of prision, and Nebuchadnezzar's dream of the immage lifting Daniel to prominance.

So if you don't want to think about Jesus coming out of the tomb, we can remember that this weekend celebrated Joseph coming out of prison, the ark coming into Jerusalem, and remember that we are living where the toes are starting to join together in Nebuchadnezzar's dream

[Naomi]

Quote:

Your quote is accurate and well taken, but there's no biblical or historical connection between the resurrection of Christ and the celebration of Easter, any more than there is between Christmas and Christ's birth. I agree that there can be some good done by drawing people's attention to Christ during those times, but we shouldn't be under any illusion that Easter is a valid holiday of the Christian Church. It isn't. The only way that the Bible commands His followers to celebrate His death and resurrection is by means of the memorial supper and baptism.

Good post John317. IMO there is nothing wrong with acknowledging Resurection Sunday. And, it's a wonderful reason to spend time with family and friends. Fun to watch the children seek the pretty colored eggs ... and to eat too many chocolate eggs ... and enjoy all he special traditional family foods.

If it makes people aware of the Resurection of our Lord then it's a good thing. Perhaps more will realize that He did rest on the 7th day Sabbath. The first day is for celebration.

[jasd]

QR frame:

Well, the Glastonbury Thorn is blooming (and so ought we) in England this Easter, as it does on all Easters – whilst all else is barren.

Re the ministry of Jesus Christ lasting 1 year, 3 and a half years, or other - how about another view?

Lu 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

Jesus Christ's declaration that His ministry had begun...

Lu 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Question: had Jesus Christ at the age of 12 already put His hand to the plough of His Father’s business? Does the age of 12 nullify him - being that the operative term is ‘a man’?—or is it better understood that a larger principle obtains?

Lu 2:50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

Lu 2:51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them:

So, how long thereafter Luke 2:49 was Jesus Christ “subject” unto His parents?—was it until His 13th Birthday, His Bar-Mitzvah? Remember, there is the principle obtaining of His already having set His hand to the plough of His Father’s business...

Might the Jewish idiom of counting a part of the year as a whole factor?—if so, Jesus Christ may have been subject to his parents for no more than a remaining six months and legitimately have been at His Father’s business at Passover in the year He Mitzvahed.

Point-of-fact may be that Jesus Christ seems, by His own declaration, to have begun His ministry at the time of Pasch as Luke 2:49 would have it. That means that His ‘ministry’ had been ongoing for nigh 20 years when He was crucified.

Question: where and to whom had Jesus Christ ‘ministered’ for the ‘lost seventeen’ years?

There are some accounts (oral and traditional history) which say that Mary’s uncle was the Roman Nobilis Decurio (equivalent to a Minister in Govt, or a Cabinet Position in our Govt) Joseph of Arimathea, owner of a fleet of vessels – and that Jesus Christ may have served as ship’s carpenter to his vessels

and traveled to such places as England and what would later become the Americas.

According to some Roman historians (6th cent), Xtianity arrived in Rome via the British Isles... even before St Paul arrived in Rome ca AD 60-61.

[jasd]

>>Easter will never be anything but a day for pagan worship.<<

As it is celebrated by Xtians – it is more than a “day for pagan worship”. Fact.

>>Only God can make something holy.<<

Holy also means ‘to consecrate – people, place, or thing’. Gd does it. People do it. You do it. I do it.

>>People can't make a day holy.<<

Job made holy/sanctified his children and seemingly also, their birthdays (Job 1:4,5).

You may be better served to say that there is a difference between ‘what Gd makes holy and what man makes holy’.

>>Many people have the same misconception about Sunday.<<

“misconception” is in the altogether too subjective; however, as Job sanctified, so may and do others. The precedent is Holy Writ, properly parsed.

>>However, like Christmas, I think those times provide a great opportunity to bring people's attention to Christ and the hope of the resurrection.<<

Indeed. “I am made all things to all [men], that I might by all means save some” (1 Cor 9:22).

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

The “lights in the firmament of the heaven” are memes, as are Easter, Pasch, and a full moon – having in common the Vernal Equinox. So too is Xmas effectually a memes with Xtmas sharing commonality with the winter solstice.

[Dr. Rich]

jasd, you bring up some good points but the 'ministry' that I was talking about was what Jesus did AFTER he chose His disciples for that was only one year, from one passover to the next.

Also, long after being 12, Jesus was asked to turn the water into wine and He told Mary in so many words that His ministry was not yet to begin.

As for Jesus' baptism being in the fall or at the time of the Atonement, this is all new to me as I will have to investigate this more to see where this story came from. We do know there is a contradiction between Matthew's gospel and John's gospel about where and what Jesus did after His baptism, but we also know that John was the only eyewitness at this time because Matthew at this time had not yet been chosen as a disciple.

And I also agree with you jasd that Jesus probably traveled to America (what was called the island of 'Merica) on His uncle's ships as there is evidence to this from other books and reports. But your post shows that there is much more than what we really don't know about the things Jesus did or where He went.

As for Easter as a pagan holiday, sure, we all probably agree, just as Christmas is pagan too. But I also agree it is also a great time to converse with people about FACTS, not merely assumptions, and the fact is, that Jesus said He came here to testify to the truth, the words of His Father being that truth. He also said that any foundation not built upon those very words are built on sand.

[Kevin H]

As for Easter as a pagan holiday, sure, we all probably agree, just as Christmas is pagan too.

Actually the current evidence is that Christmas was not pagan, but came from a minor Jewish holiday the supposed birth of Isaac (or more directly the idea that Isaac was conseved on Passover and that Abraham brought him to Mt. Moriah on Passover, and that the Church was saying that Isaac was a type of the messiah and that Jesus the antitype had his anounciation on Passover, and when giving up Jewish calender for the Roman calender started celebrating the feast of the Annunciation on March 25, and 100 years later they started celebrating his birth on Dec. 25.) There is even some who argue that the Pagan celebration on December 25 was because the Christians had that date first.

[Dr. Rich]

Kevin, for myself and my research, I don't buy that for one minute.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

As for Easter as a pagan holiday, sure, we all probably agree, just as Christmas is pagan too.

Actually the current evidence is that Christmas was not pagan, but came from a minor Jewish holiday the supposed birth of Isaac (or more directly the idea that Isaac was conseved on Passover and that Abraham brought him to Mt. Moriah on Passover, and that the Church was saying that Isaac was a type of the messiah and that Jesus the antitype had his anounciation on Passover, and when giving up Jewish calender for the Roman calender started celebrating the feast of the Annunciation on March 25, and 100 years later they started celebrating his birth on Dec. 25.) There is even some who argue that the Pagan celebration on December 25 was because the Christians had that date first.

Excellent comments Kevin and very good and truthful research.

[M. T. Cross]

Actually there is no pagan holiday I am aware of on the 25th. It is on the 20th or 21st.

Pagan argument is that some of the current Christmas traditions are borrowed from pagan tradition. The tree, the decorations, the wreath, the whole 12 days of Christmas thing.

The thing is that many cultures had a celebration at that time of the year the celebrated the "coming of light". Some celebrations view this as literal as in the days are going to get longer, some view it as symbolic. Either way I think its the one celebration that is most shared.

[Kevin H]

Kevin, for myself and my research, I don't buy that for one minute.

Ok, so first have you looked at the new evidence? Second if you have then how do you explain the evidence? Third, what alternative theory do you have that explains why the Church was celebrating December 25 as the birth of Jesus 100 years before the old understanding of history said that we started to keep it? And we have the Feast of the Annuncation that the church kept since the second century AD, first held on Passover then changed to either March 25 or April 6. Please tell me why the churches which celebrated the Feast of the Annunciation started to celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25 and why the churches that celebrated the feast of the Annunciation on April 6 celebrated the birth of Jesus on January 6? And we do have the connection of the feast of the Annunciation being the Christians taking over the Jewish belief that Sarah conseved Isaac on Passover, born 9 months later and taken by Abraham to Mt. Moriah on Passover and that the second century Christians were saying that Isaac was a type of Christ and that Jesus the antitype was also conseved on Passover, born 9 months later, and then taken by his Father as the Antitype to be sacrificed on Passover.

This is a lot of evidence you will have to explain away, so I'm interested in how you interpet the new discoveries. Or do you believe that we should ignore these discoveries, pretend that the discoveries of the third century Christians seeing Jesus as born on Dec. 25 (or April 6) does not exist and stick with the story of Constantine?

[Kevin H]

Actually there is no pagan holiday I am aware of on the 25th. It is on the 20th or 21st.

Pagan argument is that some of the current Christmas traditions are borrowed from pagan tradition. The tree, the decorations, the wreath, the whole 12 days of Christmas thing.

The thing is that many cultures had a celebration at that time of the year the celebrated the "coming of light". Some celebrations view this as literal as in the days are going to get longer, some view it as symbolic. Either way I think its the one celebration that is most shared.

Good post EmptyCross. Now I am not denying that many of the coustoms that have become a part of Christmas did not come from Pagan mid winter celebrations, of which much had. The issue is how we originally got December 25.

The old histories said that December 25 was the birthday of Mithra and that the Church took it over in the 4th century to make it easier for the pagan's to accept Christianity. However it does not explain why we now know that December 25 was celebrated 100 years prior to Constantine. And some historians have pointed out that the Mithraites did not have a set date, only around late december, until AFTER Constantine, giving evidence that the Mithrites may have taken the specific date December 25 from the Christians, rather than the Christians taking it from the pagans, at best both groups had it in common, but the pagans might have taken it from the Christians.

[M. T. Cross]

Right - I had forgotten about the Mithra lore. I have spent much of the last few years reading more Celtic and Nordic lore

[Kevin H]

As for my church on Easter, Sabbath went to worship. I used the magic tric called "The Cross Trick" (also called "The Cleansing Cross") to illustrate how God dealt with the sin problem. In Sabbath school heard two sisters sing "Up from the Grave He Arose" a song we sang a lot at Union Springs Academy, but I never heard since, but thought of a lot over the years, especialy on Easter, so nice to hear that song again. Then most of the church service was hearing some beloved hymns played on a harp and occasional short thoughts by the mother of the lay leader of our church (our church is more of an outreach church, lead by a member who is a social worker for her clients and friends, with then bussing in a lot of children, the Pastor who has 4 churches and has to spend more time with the other 3 stops by occasionally). Then after church spent a nice time with my friend Kathy at fellowship dinner, followed by going home to pick up my mom and bring her to Union Springs for a passion play they were putting on.

Living a distance from there, and my mom taking some time to get ready due to her age, and not wanting to leave Kathy as I can't see her for a few weeks, my mom and I got up there a bit late, but I enjoyed what I did see of the play.

I had been wondering if it was based on Francisco DeArujo's Jerusalem Passion play (wondering "why re-invent the wheel) Also was wondering if some of the scenes were tradition or if some of the newer discoveries were incorporated, but got there too late to see those scenes, however getting the DVD so I'll check then when I see the DVD.

It was not Francisco's play as it was full of contemporary music, however like his (and the Passion Play I did in NY City for the Brooklyn NY Church in 1983) it was a lot of the quiet performance illustrating the music, and it showed that demons played a role.

What blew me away is that while the Jerusalem Passion Play and the play I put on in NY City ended with Jesus going into heaven with the promise of the second coming, this play had another good half hour or so where it moves up to today with it's joys and heart breaks, war, children dying from disease, young people going for quick fun that ends crashing, drugs, homelessness. Some suffering being ministered to by others, some very alone, a young girl struggling with a gun and ideas of suicide with an angel and demon trying to influence her, thus showing that Jesus' ministry and passion has a role in life today and closed with the second coming!

Now in some scenes it was difficult to get the whole point but the principle was there. And in some it appeared that the angels and demons were equal in power one stronger at one moment that the other, which does give an indication that sometimes wrong seems oft so strong, but does not always convey that God is the ruler yet, a captain in control during the storm. That people like Pharaoh, Caiphas, Pilate in their rebellion was still only able to carry out the will of God. But to portray this may be difficult and just remember the other side of the coin.

The "Today" scenes also was showing how we have a role. Both my role as nurse, bringing the wounded home from war, as well as when I was in Israel and Brooklyn putting on plays on the life of Jesus, plays that I was in at USA and AUC and other schools, my study and sharing life skills, my using preaching with slides of Israel, magic tricks and teaching the Bible, Choice Theory, Aesthetic Realism, The Success Principles, healthier lifestyles etc. are all playing a role in the Passion of Jesus and awakened more of a desire to be a co-worker with Jesus to share his message.

I'm glad that USA has gone beyond mostly encouraging musical talent and alowing for the role that drama can play.

Then it was home for 4 hours of sleep and back to work today.