Moderators lazarus Posted May 15, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 15, 2012 The end is near. All that these side issues are doing is to distract the Church/people from the work that needs to be done. My female pastor friends are doing the work. They are preaching, baptizing, etc. If the church votes WO it will just be catching up. There work is already being done by them. They are already ordained. It's just that we call it commissioning. God doesn't need to wait until we change our terminology. Calling and the laying on of hands for the ministry of the Gospel is the work! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 It may be that we are running ahead of God on some things, kinda hard for Him to wait then...but I agree with you about Pastors being able to invite who they choose to speak - unless of course we run ahead of God on that too. With you personally; I think you'd be quite fair about it. I mean, here on this thread, you referred me to a site that has a lot of anti WO materials on it. That tells me that you are not necessarily prejudiced against people with different viewpoints; you just don't want them to get up front and be an idiot and tear down instead of build up. I believe that it is possible for WO proponents to also tear down instead of build up the church, and that we may be seeing a bit of that these days. (in reference to the OP) I am glad to see Pastors such as yourself who feel passionate about an issue; yet still fulfill Jer 3:15. It's just the feeling I get about you from over the miles that I get...hope you don't mind me sayin... Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted May 15, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 15, 2012 I can't see where I posted a link. It was probably someone else.. I'm not that fair and balanced. Quote: II am glad to see Pastors such as yourself who feel passionate about an issue; yet still fulfill Jer 3:15. It's just the feeling I get about you from over the miles that I get...hope you don't mind me sayin... Thanks for the complement. I honestly feel that there are negative attitudes on both sides. I have heard folks talk about apostasy and Jesuit agenda etc in reference to WO. That's just foolish talk for the most part. I think many SDA's don't realize that our church culture has always reflected the culture of the day. The church often follows the trends in society in terms of dress, music and preaching styles, race relations. In fact EGW says, when it comes to fashion, we should not be first in nor the last in. Perhaps that applies in other areas too. EGW was on the cutting edge. I think we're now on the trailing edge. (if there is such a thing) Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted May 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 16, 2012 As I mentioned in one of my posts, I have nothing against WO. My objection is to the unilateral decisions by unions or conferences that are contrary to what the body in a general conference session has decided. What would these same leaders who are going against the wishes of the world body say if churches in Africa & the Middle East vote for polygamy being ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted May 16, 2012 Administrators Share Posted May 16, 2012 Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted May 16, 2012 Members Share Posted May 16, 2012 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 As I mentioned in one of my posts, I have nothing against WO. My objection is to the unilateral decisions by unions or conferences that are contrary to what the body in a general conference session has decided. What would these same leaders who are going against the wishes of the world body say if churches in Africa & the Middle East vote for polygamy being ok? The World Wide Church did not vote that the Unions should not be voting as they have. Otherwise - the Unions would not be doing it. What the GC voted - was to not allow WO on a world wide basis. So, please - let's not misrepresent what the Unions are doing because what the Unions are doing is totally within what the GC rules allow for. Nothing being done is "going against the wishes of the world body" as you have put it. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Really? I see this at the conference and unions are taking the position that they do not recognize the authority that the General Conference in Session votes on. It is not the lack of ordained folks that cause the less than zero growth among the multi-generational Americans. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Quote: I see this at the conference and unions are taking the position that they do not recognize the authority that the General Conference in Session votes on. Do you have a source for this. As I have read no such thing. And also - are you denying that the Unions have the authority to ordain whom they choose? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 you are not aware that it was voted down at the Church in Session? Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted May 16, 2012 Administrators Share Posted May 16, 2012 Really? I see this at the conference and unions are taking the position that they do not recognize the authority that the General Conference in Session votes on. It is not the lack of ordained folks that cause the less than zero growth among the multi-generational Americans. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Otherwise - the Unions would not be doing it. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 So, are you saying that the Unions do not have authority to ordain whom they choose? It seems most are afraid to answer this question directly. If it were not legal to do it - the Unions would not be doing it. And IF it WAS contrary to the bylaws - the Unions would be challenged by the GC . But so far - no word from President Wilson. WHY? Because the Unions are doing what they are allowed to do. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 If it were not legal to do it - the Unions would not be doing it. This is not proof of anything. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Still refuse to answer the question huh? LOL Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 What's this "refuse" business? What am i supposed to "answer?" lol; I doubt i could provide an "adequate answer to whatever it is...yes I had a long day and am not "all here." Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Simple question OA. Are you stating that the Unions are going contrary to the bylaws established for them in deciding whom they will ordain as pastors? Wow! If they are - it would appear to this brain that the church is in disarray. What a mess. ANd it keeps growing and growing and growing? Where is our leadership. Is President Wilson standing idle - not doing a cotton-pickin' thingy? Sorry. But I have much more faith in our church than you do it appears. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Sorry. But I have much more faith in our church than you do it appears. Not related to the OP Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted May 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 17, 2012 The World Wide Church did not vote that the Unions should not be voting as they have. Otherwise - the Unions would not be doing it. What the GC voted - was to not allow WO on a world wide basis. So, please - let's not misrepresent what the Unions are doing because what the Unions are doing is totally within what the GC rules allow for. Nothing being done is "going against the wishes of the world body" as you have put it. Are these Unions & Conferences NOT part of the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted May 17, 2012 Administrators Share Posted May 17, 2012 Quote: Wow! If they are - it would appear to this brain that the church is in disarray. What a mess. ANd it keeps growing and growing and growing? Where is our leadership. Is President Wilson standing idle - not doing a cotton-pickin' thingy? There is no other way to say this, except to be extremely blunt: Is this what you WANT to believe is happening in our church? And are you trying to convince members to believe our leadership is incompetent and not Godly people? It sometimes seems that you look for dissension within the church. Why???? You say "What a Mess." What mess? There will always be issues to be worked through! Perhaps not fast enough for you. Shotgunning is not always the most productive or responsible way to go. You say "It keeps growing and growing and growing" In whose mind? You say "Where is our leadership" Perhaps doing their jobs and addressing many important issues ... the lion's share of which we probably don't wish to even know about! Working long, stressful hours doing jobs which most of us would not even want to do! You say Is President Wilson standing idle - not doing a cotton-pickin' thingy: What a horrible accusation! Do you know this for a FACT??? Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted May 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 17, 2012 In the church structure Unions are the ones who actually vote names for ordination. This is the reason why Unions feeling free to take these actions. They are pushing the envelope here but that is often how change comes. Be not dismayed. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Quote: Wow! If they are - it would appear to this brain that the church is in disarray. What a mess. ANd it keeps growing and growing and growing? Where is our leadership. Is President Wilson standing idle - not doing a cotton-pickin' thingy? There is no other way to say this, except to be extremely blunt: Is this what you WANT to believe is happening in our church? And are you trying to convince members to believe our leadership is incompetent and not Godly people? It sometimes seems that you look for dissension within the church. Why???? You say "What a Mess." What mess? There will always be issues to be worked through! Perhaps not fast enough for you. Shotgunning is not always the most productive or responsible way to go. You say "It keeps growing and growing and growing" In whose mind? You say "Where is our leadership" Perhaps doing their jobs and addressing many important issues ... the lion's share of which we probably don't wish to even know about! Working long, stressful hours doing jobs which most of us would not even want to do! You say Is President Wilson standing idle - not doing a cotton-pickin' thingy: What a horrible accusation! Do you know this for a FACT??? Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 They are pushing the envelope here but that is often how change comes. Be not dismayed. They have gone beyond "pushing the envelope here; and we should be dismayed. "Change" is not always for the best if it can't be done right. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 In the church structure Unions are the ones who actually vote names for ordination. This is the reason why Unions feeling free to take these actions. They are pushing the envelope here but that is often how change comes. Be not dismayed. Exactly. May God's will be done. May God's church be lead by His Spirit. And unlike the naysayers - I believe He IS leading our President in his leadership. Personally I don't believe that WO should be imposed on a World Wide basis because it is not culturally accepted in some parts of the world. So the bylaws of having the Unions in charge of this is wise. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Quote: "Change" is not always for the best if it can't be done right. I feel that under the leadership of the Holy Spirit - the churches have done a masterful job of presenting to the people the Biblical basis of WO and educating our peoples as to the mission and moving forward with change. Our leadership is not perfect. They are human. But with the aid of the Holy Spirit - God is being praised and HIS way will be done. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.