A Must For Every Christian

[Overaged]

OV, you better read and rationalise the verses before those two, the servant was paid in that for serving His master he got to eat too.

Not in context of the discussion.

The context, as I saw it here was what is the place of our "overcoming" (in our salvation), and after we have done ALL the overcoming that jesus would have us do; we are still to say: "when you shall have done all the things commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants, for we have done what we ought to do." meaning that not one, nor all of the overcomings together can earn us one iota of merit before Christ. And that is why this text I quoted is in perfect context here. "Christ in us" and "overcoming" are all good, in their sphere, but the only reason we have merit before Christ, is not because He is in us; but because He died for us. Christ and Him crucified is the central truth of the Bible; and of our salvation. All other doctrines have power and influence, according to their relation to this theme.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

OV, you better read and rationalise the verses before those two, the servant was paid in that for serving His master he got to eat too.

Not in context of the discussion.

The context, as I saw it here was what is the place of our "overcoming" (in our salvation), and after we have done ALL the overcoming that jesus would have us do; we are still to say: "when you shall have done all the things commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants, for we have done what we ought to do." meaning that not one, nor all of the overcomings together can earn us one iota of merit before Christ. And that is why this text I quoted is in perfect context here. "Christ in us" and "overcoming" are all good, in their sphere, but the only reason we have merit before Christ, is not because He is in us; but because He died for us. Christ and Him crucified is the central truth of the Bible; and of our salvation. All other doctrines have power and influence, according to their relation to this theme.

[Gerr]

Nothing bad wrong there Woody, maybe a little overlooked understanding. He took our human fallen nature and had to overcome our tendencies to sin the same as we and by taking no power but we can have to do the same.

Yep, this is the crux of the matter. It all starts with the understanding of the nature of Christ doesn't it?

Let me ask you this. Did Jesus have an inborn desire to go to bed with every beautiful woman He saw? I do. Was Jesus born with innate selfishness? I was. Was He born with innate desire to do cocaine like the cocaine babies?

Quote:

He proved it can be done. The Father in Him, and we have the same power, Christ in us. When Christ is within Satan and his angels see that indwelling and know they are defeated foes by Him and as long as we don't put Christ out they dare not touch you.

Woody, the fact is, now we have no excuse!

Gibs, you have been ignoring my questions.

1. What is your understanding of perfection? Define it, please. You keep quoting "perfect in our sphere as He is in His sphere." What is His sphere of perfection & your sphere of perfection?

2. WHEN, at what stage do you reach this perfection? Do you have it now? If not, WHEN, and what is your excuse?

3. If you don't have it now and you were to die suddenly without a chance to say, "I'm sorry", are you lost?

[Gibs]

Gerry the fact is you can be enabled to walk as perfect as you want to. He in you is the answer. That lust can and will die. It just must be fully surrendered and His Will given the top priority. You can be dead to any sin you may have, but first you must want to then die of it. He did, you can too. We must be overcomers. And Remember, It is Christ in you that does that work, we are nothing but weaklings.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

We must be overcomers.

Simply unBiblical.

We are sinners.

He overcame so that we don't have to.

It's as simple as that. The scriptures have been quoted but you continue to ignore them.

[Woody]

Quote:

Gibs, you have been ignoring my questions.

1. What is your understanding of perfection? Define it, please. You keep quoting "perfect in our sphere as He is in His sphere." What is His sphere of perfection & your sphere of perfection?

2. WHEN, at what stage do you reach this perfection? Do you have it now? If not, WHEN, and what is your excuse?

3. If you don't have it now and you were to die suddenly without a chance to say, "I'm sorry", are you lost?

Excellent questions Gerry. I wish he would answer them instead of side-stepping such important issues.

[Gail]

The idea of overcoming receives much commendation in Revelation. The question is, though, what are the redeemed of God overcoming?

That word makes for a great Bible study!

[skyblue888]

In the Desire of Ages, p.671 it is said that the Holy Spirit is imparted to us that we may overcome all our inherited and cultivated tendencies to evil and to impress Christ's character upon us.

How is that Gail?

sky :)

[Gail]

[Gibs]

The idea of overcoming receives much commendation in Revelation. The question is, though, what are the redeemed of God overcoming?

That word makes for a great Bible study!

It is the overcomers that are redeemed Gail, as you know none are saved in sin. We must be dead of that and alive in Christ, new creatures in Him and He in us.

Jesus said all of these but the last one and this one is from John as spoken to him by Jesus.

Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Re 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

In the Desire of Ages, p.671 it is said that the Holy Spirit is imparted to us that we may overcome all our inherited and cultivated tendencies to evil and to impress Christ's character upon us.

How is that Gail?

sky

That is fine and dandy. But it doesn't say overcome so you can earn salvation.

[Gail]

And I wonder from the context of many of the "overcoming" Scripture texts whether the idea of enduring, or overcoming enemies is what is meant. The battle in the endtimes is not one of overcoming sin but reflecting God's image in a system that is warring against them and wants to exterminate them.

Also there is the idea of overcoming "Sin" as opposed to overcoming "sins". That could start a whole new thread.

[Gibs]

Woody,

The Holy Spirit imparted to you is Christ in you and you then can if you want to, overcome all things as He did. That's why He came, to make a way that we too could overcome our sinning and the world and it's alurments which in these last days are many.

Our Work is a mere surrender of our entire will so as our will is His Will. This is when it can be said, I am a free man in Christ Jesus. That is of course when we have come to the place where we have total freedom within His Will.

Then we are dead to sin, the world and it's allurements and Satan's temptations.

It all depends on if we really want to. All things are possible to he to whom Jesus dwells within. He then lacks no power to put all sin and shortcomings away and forever.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Also there is the idea of overcoming "Sin" as opposed to overcoming "sins".

Yes Gail. That is the heart of this issue.

[Gerr]

Gerry the fact is you can be enabled to walk as perfect as you want to. He in you is the answer. That lust can and will die. It just must be fully surrendered and His Will given the top priority. You can be dead to any sin you may have, but first you must want to then die of it. He did, you can too. We must be overcomers. And Remember, It is Christ in you that does that work, we are nothing but weaklings.

I will keep posting these questions until you answer them. So here they are again:

Yep, this is the crux of the matter. It all starts with the understanding of the nature of Christ doesn't it?

Let me ask you this. Did Jesus have an inborn desire to go to bed with every beautiful woman He saw? I do. Was Jesus born with innate selfishness? I was. Was He born with innate desire to do cocaine like the cocaine babies?

Gibs, you have been ignoring my questions.

1. What is your understanding of perfection? Define it, please. You keep quoting "perfect in our sphere as He is in His sphere." What is His sphere of perfection & your sphere of perfection?

2. WHEN, at what stage do you reach this perfection? Do you have it now? If not, WHEN, and what is your excuse?

3. If you don't have it now and you were to die suddenly without a chance to say, "I'm sorry", are you lost?

Quote:

He proved it can be done. The Father in Him, and we have the same power, Christ in us. When Christ is within Satan and his angels see that indwelling and know they are defeated foes by Him and as long as we don't put Christ out they dare not touch you.

He proved that sinless Adam & Eve could have been victorious. If it were possible for fallen man to achieve perfection through the indwelling of Christ or the Holy Spirit, why did He bother to become a man?

And here's another question: Can you name just ONE other person who achieved perfection?

If the perfection that you are advocating is what saves us, Jesus would have no one in heaven or the earth made new but Himself & the angels.

[Gerr]

It is the overcomers that are redeemed Gail' date=' as you know none are saved in sin. We must be dead of that and alive in Christ, new creatures in Him and He in us.

[Woody]

@ Gerry

[Gibs]

Gerry any sin Jesus brings to you that you are committing you have His power to put it away. But first you must want to with all your heart. Yes you can do it, it is entirely within you to do it if He is dwelling within.

To be saved in sin would be to be committing sin that he has brought to you, that will not be. When He brings no more sins to you, you then are not committing any. What is a must, we must be saved from committing sin. That is the reason for His indwelling in you.

He wouldn't needed to have come and died if you could be saved while committeing sin. Salvation will only come to he who has taken His Gift of His Spirit within and fully given in, broken and obedient to His Will. His Will must be yours. If not broken of self and pride He cannot dwell within. Broken and now malleable in the Potters hands. He now is your only master, even self is given over completely.

Full consecrated to Him, self and sin crucified, the old man must be dead.

EGW, statement,

"I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." Revelation 21:6. This promise is only to those that thirst. None but those who feel their need of the water of life, and seek it at the loss of all things else, will be supplied. "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be My son." Verse 7. Here, also, conditions are specified. In order to inherit all things, we must resist and overcome sin. {GC 540.2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Gerry, Only the overcomers will be in heaven, surely you've read the Rev. scriptures I've posted her before, many times. They are plain and easily understood.

He made it so you can walk as HE walked and expects of you; He took no power but what each of us can have.

In their conflicts with Satan, the human family has all the help that Christ had. They need not be overcome. They may be more than conquerors through Him who has loved them and given His life for them. . . . The Son of God in His humanity wrestled with the very same fierce, apparently overwhelming, temptations that assail us—temptations to indulgence of appetite, to presumptuous venturing where God has not led them, and to the worship of the god of this world, to sacrifice an eternity of bliss for the fascinating pleasures of this life. Everyone will be tempted, but the Word declares that we shall not be tempted above our ability to bear. We may resist and defeat the wily foe. {CTr 195.4}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

still unable to answer the tough questions.

[Overaged]

Gerry the fact is you can be enabled to walk as perfect as you want to. He in you is the answer. That lust can and will die. It just must be fully surrendered and His Will given the top priority. You can be dead to any sin you may have, but first you must want to then die of it. He did, you can too. We must be overcomers. And Remember, It is Christ in you that does that work, we are nothing but weaklings.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So you must be a perfect Sabbath-keeper, and perfect law keeper?

[Gerr]

Yeah, what ever happened to grace and the free gift?

[Gerr]

Gerry, Only the overcomers will be in heaven, surely you've read the Rev. scriptures I've posted her before, many times. They are plain and easily understood.

Yes, indeed!!! We are to overcome. But what does it mean to overcome? To you, it seems to me means perfection. To me it means maintaining your trust and confidence in God to the end no matter what.

BUT Gibs, you have been ignoring my questions.

1. What is your understanding of perfection? Define it, please. You keep quoting "perfect in our sphere as He is in His sphere." What is His sphere of perfection & your sphere of perfection?

2. WHEN, at what stage do you reach this perfection? Do you have it now? If not, WHEN, and what is your excuse?

3. If you don't have it now and you were to die suddenly without a chance to say, "I'm sorry", are you lost?

4. Was Jesus born with all the lustfull desires we are born with?

5. Name ONE who ever achieved the perfection of Jesus.

6. And what happened to Grace & the "FREE gift?"

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[Gibs]

Gerry, You ask, "what does it mean to overcome?" Well in this case it is not the flu or something worse physically, but it is sining. When we repent and come to His throne of Grace and truly repent, He is true and faithful and your past sins repented of are forgiven.

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

We must overcome "continuing in sinning".

Now what degree of perfection is expected of us? The same as that of Jesus as one of us in our sphere and having no power but is freely ours to overcome. He is our example of perfection in our sphere.

You need to go back and read my post 549260

No Woody, the question you fellows keep asking, I've been answering, but you will not receive it, but want a wide road answer. There is no wide road to Salvation, it is through that "strait" gate that few find and then continue that upward climb in the "narrow" Way. His Way, The Only Way!

So I will give it to you as straight and direct as i can, Woody, Gerry and all interrested, the perfection all must have is to walk as our Saviour walked when in our sphere here on earth. We must overcome sinning, committing sin period.

Now we actually have an advantage over our Lord. You say how is that! Satan now is a defeated foe as he was beaten by Jesus, and when they see him dwelling in you, and they sure can, they know they cannot touch you. You can now come off more than conquerors, just will to do His Will and the battle is won. What will you do is the question? Will you be broken and surrender and do His Will or continue in sin and do your will, what the carnal heart has gotten so set in. It must die, kill it, die of the old man, rise up a new man with Christ in you, you can and must do it.

Yes we must, to be in the first ressurrection. Please read and consider,

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

He hands out His Power to you, accept it, "Christ in you".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Still not answering Gerry's direct questions.

It can't be that difficult Gibs.

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