Woody Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 before they are ready? The same could be said of pastors. Do pastors push children to be members before they have a good understanding or a degree in theology and the 28 Fundamentals? How much of the 28 Fundamentals needs to be understood and accepted before becoming a member? Can a child really understand the 28 Fundamentals? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 This is a good question. I just cannot see 9-year olds being ready for the kind of committment that the Anabaptists died for. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Right Olger, but I'm sure some of those anabaptists were children too. Today, most children and adults in Western society are spoiled and soft. So really, do you know many Adventist adults ready to die for their faith? There must be some, but few I've encountered with anabaptist conviction. IOW, to give up their jobs and be on the run, preaching in mountain hideouts? To a large degree, children follow adult example. So adults are implicated too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Can a child really understand the 28 Fundamentals? Can an adult? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Well, it is why it took me almost 2 years before I decided to be baptized. I had to know everything I could about the denomination and what the tenets were. I went through numerous Bible classes, which I totally enjoyed and lots of talking with the pastor and other members, and of course the members in this forum. But then , I take baptism very seriously and am not a church hopper like a friend of mine is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Why was the jailor and his entire family baptized immediately upon learning of the name of Jesus? Do we need to study for years before being baptized? another question- Do we need to study for years before becoming a "member"? Some thoughts to ponder. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 My point was, that Anabaptists paid a high price to bring the truth of "believer's baptism" back into our vision. They were swimming against a strong tide of the accepted norm of "infant baptism." I wonder if we have safely moved away from infant baptism when we baptize 9-13 years olds. It is far better to baptize a 21-year old once than to baptize a child various times as they get older. In my opinion, we have gotten way out of hand with this re-baptism stuff and in the process, subconsciously taught our children that if you don't get it right the first time, try, try again. I credit this practice as part of the cause of multiple remarriages in the church. If you don't get it right the first time... No. What is needed is the expectation and teaching of lifelong commitment to the Lord and to our marriage(s) which represents God's relationship with His Bride. G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 Why was the jailor and his entire family baptized immediately upon learning of the name of Jesus? Do we need to study for years before being baptized? another question- Do we need to study for years before becoming a "member"? Some thoughts to ponder. And how about the Ethiopium, I believe, who Phillip baptized. I also remember Pastor Lyle Albreight(sp) has a program of baptism and he says to baptize who ever asks. Quote phkrause Obstinacy is a barrier to all improvement. - ChL 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 My point was, that Anabaptists paid a high price to bring the truth of "believer's baptism" back into the light of revealed truth. They were swimming against a strong tide of the accepted norm of "infant baptism." I wonder if we have safely moved away from infant baptism when we baptize 9-13 years olds. It is far better to baptize a 21-year old once than to baptize a child various times as they get older. In my opinion, we have gotten way out of hand with this re-baptism stuff and in the process, subconsciously taught our children that if you don't get it right the first time, try, try again. I credit this practice as part of the cause of multiple remarriages in the church. If you don't get it right the first time... No. What is needed is the expectation and teaching of lifelong commitment to the Lord and to our marriage(s) which represents God's relationship with His Bride. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Quote: In my opinion, we have gotten way out of hand with this re-baptism stuff and in the process, subconsciously taught our children that if you don't get it right the first time, try, try again. I credit this practice as part of the cause of multiple remarriages in the church. If you don't get it right the first time... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Quote: And how about the Ethiopium, I believe, who Phillip baptized. I also remember Pastor Lyle Albreight(sp) has a program of baptism and he says to baptize who ever asks. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Here, once you are baptized you are automatically members. I don't think they would let you get baptized without membership automatically following, however, one can become a member without baptism, such as profession of faith. I think that the local conference keeps tab of tithe through the memberships, which is why they do it automatically. Of course, I could be wrong, that's just the way it "looks" like. And since I view tithe differently than most, I could care less, where my membership is at. Being baptized, my name is in the Book of Life, and that's the only place I really care about it being. Quote For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Mat. 16:26Please, support the JDRF and help find a cure for Type 1 Diabetes. Please, support the March of Dimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Yes Liz - that IS the way it looks as the lines have certainly been blurred. But then that is a different kettle of fish. OH my. However - you are right about the only thing that matters is that YOUR name IS in the book of Life - praise God. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 subconsciously taught our children that if you don't get it right the first time, try, try again. I credit this practice as part of the cause of multiple remarriages in the church. If you don't get it right the first time... No. What is needed is the expectation and teaching of lifelong commitment to the Lord and to our marriage(s) which represents God's relationship with His Bride.G We need to teach our children to "try again." (its in the Bible). With marriage; there are actually two kinds of "try agains." 1/ try again with someone else; 2/ try again with your current spouse. Nothing wrong with trying again, and not giving up. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Yes Liz - that IS the way it looks as the lines have certainly been blurred. But then that is a different kettle of fish. OH my. However - you are right about the only thing that matters is that YOUR name IS in the book of Life - praise God. The lines have not been blurred, they have been drawn clearly. I recall when my kids were 9 & 10, a deacon, with big long "dreadlocks" and an attitude that would scare all the wolves out of their sheep costumes, approached me during communion, and told me the boys were not allowed to take part, because they were "too young." He was very agrressive about it, but I 'fought" back & took the bread and wine anyways. (from another deacon). It caused a really big stink, and this guy had a whole crew of special discernment police lined up to tell me how wrong it was for me to do this with my boys. I was an elder at the time. So of course this incident got to the church board, and I was essentially told that the church had the right to tell me how to raise my children spiritually; and I had no say here. I tried to explain how I taught the boys all about communion, and how it was a special time of spiritual bonding for us. I even invited them to question the boys on the subject to see that they actually did understand; but oh, no! We were just "wrong" and that was it. Nice way to keep our young people in the church is all I got to say. It's nobody's business if my kids and I have communion together. It's between us and the Lord. The Pastor was very understanding, and he tried to say how each family/parent must decide such things for their own children, and not the church. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Sounds like "Dread"locks took on a whole new meaning !! Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auntmaggie Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I was baptized when I was 12, I was a year younger than the other kids at church that were being baptized, but I convinced the minister that I was ready. And in my 12 year old mind I was. But it wasn't the emotional commitment that I made last year when I was re-baptized. For me when I was "re-baptized" it was for the right reasons. I did not understand everything when I was 12, other than I felt it was what I was suppose to do, and I would have been left out if I hadn't done it. I don't think it was wrong for me to be baptized at that age, I was accepting Christ as my savior, but I did not really understand all of what the church believed in.. however that isn't what baptism means to me. to answer your question Woody , I believe that some kids are pushed to be baptized before they are ready, just like they are pushed into other areas of growing up before they are ready. I also believe, and have seen children that are ready to make that commitment at young ages. Parents and ministers need to make sure the person is getting baptized for the right reason. And bottom line, it is between that person and God if it is the right time to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auntmaggie Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I was baptized when I was 12, I was a year younger than the other kids at church that were being baptized, but I convinced the minister that I was ready. And in my 12 year old mind I was. But it wasn't the emotional commitment that I made last year when I was re-baptized. For me when I was "re-baptized" it was for the right reasons. I did not understand everything when I was 12, other than I felt it was what I was suppose to do, and I would have been left out if I hadn't done it. I don't think it was wrong for me to be baptized at that age, I was accepting Christ as my savior, but I did not really understand all of what the church believed in.. however that isn't what baptism means to me. to answer your question Woody , I believe that some kids are pushed to be baptized before they are ready, just like they are pushed into other areas of growing up before they are ready. I also believe, and have seen children that are ready to make that commitment at young ages. Parents and ministers need to make sure the person is getting baptized for the right reason. And bottom line, it is between that person and God if it is the right time to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted December 1, 2012 Administrators Share Posted December 1, 2012 .............. And bottom line, it is between that person and God if it is the right time to do it. Amen!! Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted December 1, 2012 Administrators Share Posted December 1, 2012 In some countries it is very difficult for a young person or adult to be baptized. For example in Romania they have to study for approx a year, memorize large portions of the Bible and EG White's writings, Overkill? Perhaps As for membership automatically following baptism, perhaps but I do not believe it is necessarily always true. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted December 1, 2012 Administrators Share Posted December 1, 2012 Sounds like "Dread"locks took on a whole new meaning !! Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I was baptized when I was 10 or 11. My Dad really wanted it, my mom was opposed to it. I thought I had to or I was going to be lost. I met all the requirements, I went through all the proper study. The day I was baptized - along with my two sisters - was one of the most terrifying days of my life. I was so scared of what it all meant all day before the baptism and the minute I came back up out of that water my first thought was "What did I just do?" - that and it was in Lac La Hache lake and it was incredibly cold My point is that I think kids should wait until they are a bit older. I would point to age 16 minimum. I think its important to realize that most kids growing up in the SDA (or any other) church have not put any real critical thinking into the belief system. Its just what they have been taught and they accept it as the truth. I think they should be at an age where they have had a chance to really look at things and have decided for themselves that these are the truths that make the most sense to them. I had given it much critical thought by age 10 or 11 - and I disagreed with a lot of it. But I was too young to understand what I was seeing and thinking - I got baptized out of fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcah Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 My 10 year old girl was just baptized. Was it my wife's or my idea? No. It was hers. She asked for baptism classes, she did everything asked of her, she loves the Lord with all of her heart. "Suffer the little children and forbid them not..." Be careful you don't end up with a millstone around your neck. Now, that being said, baptism and church membership SHOULD be separated and a minimum age placed for voting in church politics. Quote -Jason Youtube.com/narcah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 IMO, baptism is a public statement that you have given your life over to Jesus Christ and accepted Him as Lord and Savior (a serious decision that is made relatively quickly); not an assertion that you have studied all of scripture and correctly understand it's nuances and esoterics. Baptism is also non-denominational. If someone has been "dunked" in another denomination, they don't have to be "re-dunked" to become and SDA. I would guess that many people who have been baptized throughout history have recanted or abandoned their faith - that is not just a modern-day phenomenon. A person might be able to legitimately say "I would die for Christ"; but would you let your child or spouse be tortured to death unless you recanted (rhetorical question)? Back to topic, sometimes parents do push their kids to be baptized, sometimes kids get baptized because of peer pressure from other kids or Sabbath School teachers, and sometimes they get baptized because they love Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 My 10 year old girl was just baptized. Was it my wife's or my idea? No. It was hers. She asked for baptism classes, she did everything asked of her, she loves the Lord with all of her heart. "Suffer the little children and forbid them not..." Be careful you don't end up with a millstone around your neck. Now, that being said, baptism and church membership SHOULD be separated and a minimum age placed for voting in church politics. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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