Yong T Tay Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Many Adventists believe that Jesus died the 2nd death. How did Jesus came back to life when there is no resurrections for those who die the 2nd death? Can anyone help me with answers. Thanks, Yongttay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Quote: Many Adventists believe that Jesus died the 2nd death. How did Jesus came back to life when there is no resurrections for those who die the 2nd death? Can anyone help me with answers. Thanks, Yongttay Because He is God!! With man this is impossible, with God how many things are possible?? It doesnt make sense to the human mind, but this is why Jesus is an adequate atonement for those that believe!! Believe the unbelievable!!! You will not find a literal explanation in scripture (literally saying that when Jesus died, He died the second death), only that Jesus is the great trump card for sinners who must face death because of disobedience through His resurrection from the second (eternal) death. For sin requires that the sinner die the second death, and thus be as though he had not ever been. Thus it is implied that Christ had to have died the second death in order to be an adequate atonement for sinners. The second death is the lasting and eternal death, the first death is something we must all face. If Christ only died the first death, our faith is in vain; eat, drink, for tomorrow we die forever. Therefore if we believe that Christ, when He was resurrected, saved also them that believe through faith, then the second death has no power over us. Remember that this question is key to realizing the reality and miracle of the atonement. Here are some texts referring to the second death: Rev 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death And Paul says such (ie: cowardly, unbelieving, abominable and murderers, etc...) were some of you...(1 Cor 6:9&10). Heb 2:9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. Heb 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, Remember this text always friend: --> Rev 1:17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, Rev 1:18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. . Without realizing that it is Jesus that is in charge of who sees heaven and hell because He has been given the power over it by God the Father. All authority has been given to Him in heaven and earth. Rest assured that His death could not have been worth anything unless it was the second death. He died in that death in place of all those who would believe and have faith and keep His commandments. I hope this helps. Dennis Wicklund Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Quote: He died...that death in place of all those who would believe and have faith and keep His commandments. I hope this helps. First of all Christ didn't die just for those who believe and keep His commandments. That is a lie. He died for "all men"....In fact all men died "in Him": 2 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died So "all men" have been justified unto life "in Christ Jesus": Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression [Adam's] there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. In Christ all men (the human race) has been legally saved! How so...how did Christ die the 2nd death? The fact Christ rose from the dead, predicted His resurrection, and claimed that He could lay down His life and than take it up again, is a stumbling block to many in accepting the idea that Christ actually experienced the second death on the cross. It is only when we realize the self-emptying of Christ at the incarnation and its implications that we can grasp the true sacrifice of Christ on the cross. The following is a brief outline of how Christ totally gave Himself up for our redemption: Phil.2:6-8 At the incarnation Jesus totally gave up His divine prerogatives i.e., the independent use of His divinity. By His own choice, He became a slave to the Father. This meant, as a man, He was completely God dependent and had to live by faith alone, just as we do [Jn. 5:19,30; 6:57; 8:28; 14:10]. Rom. 6:4 Christ was also totally God dependent for His resurrection and the New Testament clearly teaches that He was raised up by the glorious power of the Father [Acts 2:24,32; Eph. 1:20]. Matt. 27:46 On the cross Christ actually felt forsaken by the Father. This meant that the hope of being raised by the Father was taken away from Him. He was now treading the winepress alone, experiencing the full cup of the wrath of God against sin, i.e., God abandonment, the curse of the law [Matt. 26:38-42; Rom. 8:32; Gal. 3:13]. Lk. 23:35-39 Satan was fully aware of this. Taking advantage of the terrible mental anguish this second death experience Christ was undergoing, the devil tempted Him three times to give up His faith in the Father, grab hold of His divine power, and independently come down from the cross and save Himself. Jn. 19:30 Confronted by these fierce temptations, that no man will fully understand, Christ had to make a choice: “Shall I come down from the cross and save myself or shall I surrender to this second death, goodbye to life forever, so that the world may be saved?” His choice was: “Not my will, but thine, be done.” By submitting to the full wages of sin, Christ demonstrated that He loves us more than Himself [Rom. 5:8; Jn: 15:13; 1 Jn. 3:16; Rev. 1:5]. Mk. 15:43-45 Pilate marvelled at such an early death because it was not normal for the crucified one to die so soon. But it was this curse of the law that Christ experienced on our behalf that actually killed Him within six hours of His crucifixion. The soldiers that watched Christ die were equally surprised and had to make sure He was dead by piercing His side [Jn. 19: 31-34]. Isa. 53:11,12 It is this supreme sacrifice that satisfied a just and holy God and lawfully saved mankind from the curse of the law. Hence, all who receive Christ and Him crucified by faith will never have to experience the second death [2 Cor. 5:18-21; 2 Tim. 1:7-10; Rev. 20:6]. 2 Cor. 5:14,15 This self-emptying agape love of Christ, manifested on the cross, is what transformed the disciples from a bunch of greedy self-seeking individuals to men of God who were now willing to totally deny self and turn the world upside down with the good news of salvation. The same truth must transform us so that we feel compelled to live and die for Christ [Eph. 5:2]. Questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 no questions...just disagree... Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Phil.2:6-8 At the incarnation Jesus totally gave up His divine prerogatives i.e., the independent use of His divinity. By His own choice, He became a slave to the Father. This meant, as a man, He was completely God dependent and had to live by faith alone, just as we do [Jn. 5:19,30; 6:57; 8:28; 14:10]. We need to get this down: Phil 2: ...Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Christ as God gave up the independent use of His divinity and was made "in the likeness of men". John 5:19 ...the Son can do nothing of himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing....30 “I can do nothing on My own initiative." 6:57...I live because of the Father....8:28 I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me....14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me... On the cross God the Father abandoned Christ as man....Since Christ fully depended on His Father for everything, when God abandoned Him, Christ's hope the resurrection also left.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 ok understood, but what does this have to do with the man's question?? Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Quote: 2 Cor. 5:14,15 This self-emptying agape love of Christ, manifested on the cross, is what transformed the disciples from a bunch of greedy self-seeking individuals to men of God who were now willing to totally deny self and turn the world upside down with the good news of salvation. The same truth must transform us so that we feel compelled to live and die for Christ [Eph. 5:2]. Questions? Yes, I have a question. You said "The same truth must transform us so that we feel compelled to live and die for Christ." I would like to know, how do I experience that transformation? I want to be transformed like that. Beyond praying and asking God for such a transformation, what can I do on my end to facilitate that transformation? I have already discovered that it cannot be faked or make-believed, so trying to simply act as if it has happened does not work. I want it to be for real, lasting and permanent. How do I get that? Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Quote: On the cross God the Father abandoned Christ as man ....Since Christ fully depended on His Father for everything, when God abandoned Him, Christ's hope the resurrection also left.... What does "Christ as man" mean? Well first let's look at Hebrews 10:5 Therefore, when He [Christ as God] came into the world, He says, “Sacrifice and offering Thou hast not desired, But a body Thou hast prepared for Me [i.e., Christ as God]....7 “Then I [Christ as man] said, ‘Behold, I have come...to do Thy will, O God.’” Please note that Christ pre-exited as God. To save mankind God the Father "prepared" a body (a human life) for Christ as God to dwell in.... We can see this elsewhere: John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word [Jesus], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.... Then something happened: 14 And the Word [Jesus as God] became flesh, and tabernacled in us.... Remember that Jesus as God never ceased to exist....He remained fully God. Yet to meet us fully where we are at He had to relinquish His divine prerogatives into His Father's hand....Hence He could say, "I can do nothing on my own"....He completely depended on the Father for everything...especially the resurrection. At this time we have to face an issue....God's law condemns the sinner. Christ's deity is sinless...it is immortal. The law doesn't excuse sin....It demands that the sinner die eternally! That's the 2nd death. For God to legally maintain integrity to His law that justly condemns us, God had to put our fallen, humanity into Christ. How did He do this? By uniting our fallen, sinful human life from the womb of Mary to Christ sinless, divine life. Since Christ gave up His divine prerogatives, Christ was now fully in humanity's shoes.... Since the law requires perfect obedience to God's law...Christ, by faith, fully walked in the Spirit and never (even by a thought) sinned. However, because the humanity He assumed was sinful and under the curse, God had to abandon our humanity "in Christ" to the wages of sin (i.e., the 2nd death). The question is did God raise our fallen humanity that was residing "in Christ" early Sunday morning? NO! If He did then our humanity didn't take the full curse of the law. So God left our sinful humanity in the grave.... In exchange Christ as God was raised with a sinless, immortal humanity. So now Christ is both God and glorified mankind. That's why Paul could say, God "made us [spiritually] alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places... Eph 2:5,6 Now do you have any questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Maybe I should have said, "will transform us"? However, this is only true if we fully restore the gospel....If we don't, well..we are not lost...but we will live many, many more years in this rat maze.... How are we transformed? I think that is your question.... First and foremost remember that "in Christ" you already stand fully qualified now and in the judgment....What Christ does in you is used as a witness to draw others to His love....Since Christ is in heaven He must use His people...the Christian church...as a witness How is this done? 1] We need to understand the gospel...the "in Christ" truth 2] In it we will see Christ's self-emptying love...a love that was willing to say goodbye to life forever so that His enemies (those who hated him) could have heaven in His place. 3] As we concentrate on Christ's life (especially the cross) we begin to change....Concentrating on the law will get you nowhere... I think 2 Cor 2:17,18 (RSV) sums it up nicely: 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord [His love see Ex 33:18], are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Now we are talking!!!!! amen I love this thread This warms my heart towards my GOD This is so lofty Praise GOD Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Quote: How did Jesus came back to life when there is no resurrections for those who die the 2nd death? Thanks, Yongttay [:"red"] "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." [/] Romans 10:9 KJV It is important for you to build your own foundational faith between you and your Father in heaven, Yongttay, without any human other than Jesus interfering with settled conclusions on your part. That is not to say other members of the body of Christ cannot be helpful to you as they relate their own experience in the leading of the Holy Spirit, through the Divine Word, the Holy Scriptures. It just means that whenever the seed of the Word is sown in your heart, it will only be understood correctly through the discernment given by the Holy Spirit. [:"red"] " But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the Father" [/] John 16:13 AMP [:"red"] "Oh, there is so much more I want to tell you, but you can't bear it now." [/] John 16:12 NLT Since all men are falling short of the glory of God, that which we might give to you will not only be subject to the frailties of the individual giving it, but at our finest hour it will still only be partial in its' truth. [:"red"] "For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away." [/] 1 Cor 13:9,10 NKJV I have found that if I strive to follow that with which I know to be true, the Holy Spirit continues to open new vistas of knowledge as I or others would benefit from it, along with the fruit of the Spirit, to His honor and glory. [:"red"] "But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness, Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [that can bring a charge]." [/] Galatians 5:22,23 AMP Keep looking up! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 I heard from a wonderful minister that when you look at the story of Abraham and Issac you see God directed Abraham to Kill His own son. God didnt direct for Abraham to Watch as His own son to die but for father to do it himself. GOD Himself Took JESUS Life on the cross. That was worse than watching HIM die. God Himself Poured out wrath on HIM for us. This is what the minister demostrated to me through Abraham and Issac. Many here will not agree with this profound mystery. Thats ok I still cant wrap my brain around it but God works in me through such lofty revelations. It subdues me and warms my heart towards such a GOD Family such as this. Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Again Robert, This does not answer the man's question at all. You seem to be rambling about non-relative details. Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 and beleive me Im not worthy of any of these scenios that the posters have posted Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parade Orange Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Wicklands Hello, I hope u dont mind me saying this.... We are required to answer the mans question? Cant we just share our thoughts? God bless you Quote All progress in the Spiritual Life is knowing and Loving GOD"there is non upon earth that I desire besides YOU" PS 73:25That perspective changes EVERYTHING-suffering and adversity are the means that makes us hungry for GOD. Disapointments will wean us away wordly occupations. Even sin(when repented of) becomes a mechanism to push us closer to HIM as we experience His Love and Forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Quote: Please note that Christ pre-exited as God. Huh...correction: "Please note that Christ pre-existed as God." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Quote: Again Robert, This does not answer the man's question at all. You seem to be rambling about non-relative details. Let's see...Here's his question: "How did Jesus come back to life when there is no resurrection for those who die the 2nd death?" I answered it....In fact I proved that our fallen humanity, which God placed "in Christ", wasn't resurrected! That sinful life died eternally....At the resurrection Christ as God took a glorified humanity to heaven, free of sin and mortality. Ellen White sheds some light here: BC- 5BC TI- S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 5 CN- MAR2 CT- Mark PR- 04 PG- 1113 When the voice of the angel was heard saying, “Thy Father calls thee,” He who had said, “I lay down my life, that I might take it again,” “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up,” came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Deity did not die. Humanity died…. Please note the pre-existing Christ (as God) didn't die....That life lay dorment....What died eternally was our old sinful life from Adam.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yong T Tay Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Quote: "Please note the pre-existing Christ (as God) didn't die....That life lay dorment....What died eternally was our old sinful life from Adam.... " The above quotation gives me the impressions that Christ did not really die. That at the incarnation, Christ simply put on the fallen human flesh clothing which He had been wearing for 33 1/2 years. At the cross, He simply got rid off the fallen human flesh clothing. Meaning that the fallen human flesh clothing was the one that died the second death - eternal death, and as God, Christ did not die and that's why He came back to life. Did I understand you? Yongttay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Quote: THE ABOVE QUOTATION GIVES ME THE IMPRESSIONS THAT CHRIST DID NOT REALLY DIE. AS GOD...CHRIST DIDN'T DIE. WHY? FOR ONE HE NOT THE SINNER...WE ARE! THE LAW DEMANDS THAT THE SINNER DIES...NOT A SINLESS BEING. SUBSTITUTION DOESN'T LEGALLY ANSWER GOD'S LAW....AFTER ALL GOD'S LAW STATES, “THE PERSON WHO SINS WILL DIE [i.E., THE 2ND DEATH]. THE SON WILL NOT BEAR THE PUNISHMENT FOR THE FATHER’S INIQUITY, NOR WILL THE FATHER BEAR THE PUNISHMENT FOR THE SON’S INIQUITY; THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE RIGHTEOUS WILL BE UPON HIMSELF, AND THE WICKEDNESS OF THE WICKED WILL BE UPON HIMSELF. EZ 18:20 Quote: AT THE INCARNATION, CHRIST SIMPLY PUT ON THE FALLEN HUMAN FLESH CLOTHING WHICH HE HAD BEEN WEARING FOR 33 1/2 YEARS. NO, HE DIDN'T WEAR IT....WHEN THE HOLY SPIRIT LIVES IN THE BELIEVER, DOES HE WEAR THE BELIEVER? NO...THE BIBLE STATES THAT HE RESIDES IN BELIEVER.... WHAT CHRIST AS GOD DID WAS TO BLEND OUR FALLEN HUMANITY WITH HIS DIVINE LIFE. THAT HUMANITY BELONGS TO YOU AND ME....IT IS WHAT DIED! THAT'S WHY PAUL CAN SAY, ...OUR OLD SELF WAS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM....[ROM 6:6] YOU DIED TO THE LAW [iT DEMANDED YOUR DEATH...WHERE?] [ROM 7:4] IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. THIS IS NEW STUFF, HUH? WELL IT IS THE GOSPEL....TO UNDERSTAND HOW YOU COULD DIE "IN CHRIST" AND YET BE TALKING TO ME NOW, WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND OUR SITUATION "IN ADAM"....ARE YOU GAME? ROB PS: Sorry about the caps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Sorry, Robert, but yongtay's characterization sounds exactly like my impressions after reading your dissertations. You need to try to ween yourself off of TOTALLY relying on Paul's version of events. Some is good, but there are other places that need looking at. Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yong T Tay Posted May 16, 2005 Author Share Posted May 16, 2005 Quote: "NO, HE DIDN'T WEAR IT....WHEN THE HOLY SPIRIT LIVES IN THE BELIEVER, DOES HE WEAR THE BELIEVER? NO...THE BIBLE STATES THAT HE RESIDES IN BELIEVER.... WHAT CHRIST AS GOD DID WAS TO BLEND OUR FALLEN HUMANITY WITH HIS DIVINE LIFE. THAT HUMANITY BELONGS TO YOU AND ME....IT IS WHAT DIED! THAT'S WHY PAUL CAN SAY, ...OUR OLD SELF WAS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM....[ROM 6:6] YOU DIED TO THE LAW [iT DEMANDED YOUR DEATH...WHERE?] [ROM 7:4] IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. " Are you saying that the body of Christ is the part that died the second death at the cross, and that Christ's person or entity did not really died because He is God. Yongttay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Quote: You need to try to ween yourself off of TOTALLY relying on Paul's version of events Acts 9:15: But the Lord said to Him, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name [or to bear my truth] before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle [but notice this next statement] and set apart for the gospel of God. Rom 1:1 Paul was the Theologian of the New Testament. Almost half of the New Testament is Paul’s writing. He was set apart for the preaching of the gospel of God! Think about it…the other disciples wrote on the life of Christ, but Paul did much more….He explained the gospel!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Quote: Are you saying that the body of Christ is the part that died the second death at the cross, and that Christ's person or entity did not really died because He is God. Yongttay No... Let's go back to the beginning of time...i.e., creation. When God made Adam He was not just creating a man...He (God) was creating "all men" in one man. Let's examine this truth: Acts 17:26 "He [God] made from one [Adam], every nation of mankind...." Ps 139:13 For Thou didst form my inward parts; Thou didst weave me in my mother’s womb.... Okay...we all know we come from mom, but when did God create you? You have two answers: 1] When you were conceived, or 2] When He made Adam. Well...if we continue on to verse 15 of Psalms chapter 139, we must pick # 2....Let's continue: 15 My frame was not hidden from Thee, when I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought [in my mother's womb? No!] [:"red"]in the depths of the earth.[/] 16 Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Thy book they were all written, The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. From where was Adam created? Gen 2:7 says from the earth - "from the dust of the ground". So God created David [the author of Psalms] when He created Adam. Even Eve came from Adam's side [see Gen 2:22,23]....Thus Paul could state, For man [mankind] does not originate from woman, but woman from man....[1 Corinthians 11:8] Now if you say that God created you at conception (#2) then we can blame God for creating you a sinner [see Ps 51:5]. Of course that is blasphemy for God is not the author of sin. Do you buy that you came from Adam...that you are his cells Xeroxed a trillion times over? Until we get this down we can't understand how Christ (as man) could die the 2nd death. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yong T Tay Posted May 17, 2005 Author Share Posted May 17, 2005 Quote: "Do you buy that you came from Adam...that you are his cells Xeroxed a trillion times over? Until we get this down we can't understand how Christ (as man) could die the 2nd death." I certainly agree with you that I came from Adam and that I am his cells Xeroxed a trillion times over. Like most adventists, I believe Jesus died the 2nd death and at this point of time He is the only one that had tasted that eternal death. My question was: How did He came back to life. Remember Jesus was ONE PERSON with two natures (divine and human) and not with two lives. How could you say that His humanity died but His divinity did not died unless you believe as non-sda christians do that when a man died, his soul continue living in heaven/hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 Quote: How did He come back to life. Remember Jesus was ONE PERSON with two natures (divine and human) and not with two lives. How could you say that His humanity died but His divinity did not died unless you believe as non-sda christians do that when a man died, his soul continue living in heaven/hell. Jesus didn't come to save our natures....Jesus came to save us from the curse of the law...the 2nd death. To legally and lawfully save us from God's law that justly condemns us, Jesus (at the incarnation) had to assume "us"....Not our body, not our nature, but the whole fallen, man. Since we all share Adam's life, all Christ needed to do was assume that life. And He did at the incarnation. At the cross Deity did not sink and die, humanity died eternally....Sunday morning Christ was raised with a glorified humanity. Our old life stayed in the grave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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